Warm Fermented Lager Thread

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sweetcell said:
eek, just saw this - what did you do? how's it going?

i'm not a big fan of S-23 - the one time i used it for a WF, it took the longest to "clean up" as compared to other lager yeasts. after 6 months of lagering it was quite nice, but the others were drinkable within a few weeks.
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I ended up pitching it. I waited until the abosolute last minute. We will see. I think my thermometer temp was off so I may have actually pitched it at the right temp, but to be honest I have no idea. I can't get any of my thermometers to line up. lol If my tilt is right, it was pitched at 67 which I am guessing isn't going to make the beer taste great. My fermometer read a lot lower so I was thinking after stirring it would have been somewhere in the middle. But given the thermometer issues I don't know. I am not super familiar with it so I guess I will learn why people don't ferment it at higher temps lol I did just buy a pack for a rice lager but your comments make me think I should use 34/70

We only have another month of cooler temps so hopefully it will clean up enough to drink
 
Just now tapped the WF lager I fermented with Lallemand Novalager. I accidentally overcarbed it (I still don't have my carbonation lids dialled in), but once you get past the foam it's a darned tasty beer. Not as 'crisp' as a traditional lager yeast, but very light and flavorful; used Cascade for bittering, and some Perle as late hops. Can't wait to see what this yeast does as a 2nd generation slurry on the next one.
 
seatazzz said:
Just now tapped the WF lager I fermented with Lallemand Novalager. I accidentally overcarbed it (I still don't have my carbonation lids dialled in), but once you get past the foam it's a darned tasty beer. Not as 'crisp' as a traditional lager yeast, but very light and flavorful; used Cascade for bittering, and some Perle as late hops. Can't wait to see what this yeast does as a 2nd generation slurry on the next one.
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I just got an email from Morebeer! yesterday about Lallemand Novalager and Farmhouse yeasts, and they both look interesting. Was your WF beer at least more lager-y (whatever that is) than Nottingham?
 
seatazzz said:
Just now tapped the WF lager I fermented with Lallemand Novalager. I accidentally overcarbed it (I still don't have my carbonation lids dialled in), but once you get past the foam it's a darned tasty beer. Not as 'crisp' as a traditional lager yeast, but very light and flavorful; used Cascade for bittering, and some Perle as late hops. Can't wait to see what this yeast does as a 2nd generation slurry on the next one.
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How warm was your WF? Just curious because I ran it right around 58. I'll have to give it another taste tonight but I felt like it came out similar in crispness to other more traditional lager yeasts ran at that temp. Definitely agreed on the taste notes. Look forward to hearing more updates!
 
z-bob said:
I just got an email from Morebeer! yesterday about Lallemand Novalager and Farmhouse yeasts, and they both look interesting. Was your WF beer at least more lager-y (whatever that is) than Nottingham?
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I've been doing WF lagers for a couple of years now and have tried a few different 'traditional' lager yeasts. The best results I've gotten have been with Diamond, and I usually ferment around 64-66°. I haven't tried fermenting Notty at lager temperatures, so I can't comment on that. To me, this beer has the best characteristics of an ale and a lager; I'm getting good malt flavor, but it's also crisp like a lager, with none of the sulfur that Diamond can produce. I'm going to brew it again this weekend with the slurry from the first one, and see how it does that way. A word of caution, however; if you want a bright clear beer from it, prepare to wait a while. This has been in the keg for four days and I used gelatin for fining, and it's still kinda hazy.
 
eliastheodosis said:
How warm was your WF? Just curious because I ran it right around 58. I'll have to give it another taste tonight but I felt like it came out similar in crispness to other more traditional lager yeasts ran at that temp. Definitely agreed on the taste notes. Look forward to hearing more updates!
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I fermented mine at 64°. It took about 12 hours to really take off, but once it did the action was frenetic. Krausen dropped in 3 days, I let it sit another 4 to clean up (no diacetyl rest, temperature stayed at 64°), then slowly took it down to 45° and left it there for 3 days. Thinking that for this yeast, pitching two packets might be the better call. Also noting here that I used gelatin when I kegged it, and four days in it's still not clear; so Lallemand's 'medium' flocculation rate is pretty accurate. I'm hoping a few more days in the keg sees it clear. I'm going to use the slurry this weekend in another one.
 
seatazzz said:
To me, this beer has the best characteristics of an ale and a lager; I'm getting good malt flavor, but it's also crisp like a lager, with none of the sulfur that Diamond can produce. I'm going to brew it again this weekend with the slurry from the first one, and see how it does that way. A word of caution, however; if you want a bright clear beer from it, prepare to wait a while. This has been in the keg for four days and I used gelatin for fining, and it's still kinda hazy.
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seatazzz said:
I fermented mine at 64°. It took about 12 hours to really take off, but once it did the action was frenetic. Krausen dropped in 3 days, I let it sit another 4 to clean up (no diacetyl rest, temperature stayed at 64°), then slowly took it down to 45° and left it there for 3 days. Thinking that for this yeast, pitching two packets might be the better call. Also noting here that I used gelatin when I kegged it, and four days in it's still not clear; so Lallemand's 'medium' flocculation rate is pretty accurate. I'm hoping a few more days in the keg sees it clear. I'm going to use the slurry this weekend in another one.
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Thanks for the update! Yeah, it seems like our notes are pretty well aligned. I crashed and hit it with gelatin and it didn't really clear until about the 2 week mark. It's definitely pretty powdery. Absolutely no sulfur that I could detect at any point.

I had a glass last night and it was pretty crisp but mine is also sitting at 7 weeks right now. I remember it being very drinkable at 2 weeks but maybe not quite this crisp. Still, it's light and let's the malt flavor through very well while still having a pleasant ester profile.

I pitched at 75 g/hl. Right in the middle of their recommended range. That would put you at over 1 pack at least for a typical 5 gal batch. It took a similar time to get going but wasn't quite frenetic at 58F. Steady and strong for sure, though. It took a little over three days before it drastically slowed. Then I let it drift up to 60F and sit for 4 more days too. No issues with diacetyl. It's supposed to be a much lower diacetyl producer than Diamond as well.

Let us know how your slurry experiments work out!
 
z-bob said:
Was your WF beer at least more lager-y (whatever that is) than Nottingham?
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seatazzz said:
I haven't tried fermenting Notty at lager temperatures, so I can't comment on that
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I just played around with this on a recent beer. It's an Irish Red Ale/Lager thing. I figured it couldn't go wrong no matter how it turned out. I've run Notty in the higher 60s for milds and a few others but never colder until now.

@z-bob, did you try this yourself? What temp and what was your experience? Sounds like the experience was not so...lager-y 😂

I ran mine right around 57-58 and then let rise some to finish up. It's been conditioning for three weeks now and will be tapped as soon as I kick the scwarzbier. I can report back here with the recipe and feedback if people are interested.
 
eliastheodosis said:
@z-bob, did you try this yourself? What temp and what was your experience? Sounds like the experience was not so...lager-y 😂
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No I did not. I've only brewed one WF and that was with 34/70; I just opened the first bottle last night. (it's good) I have used Nottingham before in a pale ale, and it was very clean. I've heard of people using Notty in pseudo-lagers, and that's not hard to imagine.
 
z-bob said:
No I did not. I've only brewed one WF and that was with 34/70; I just opened the first bottle last night. (it's good) I have used Nottingham before in a pale ale, and it was very clean. I've heard of people using Notty in pseudo-lagers, and that's not hard to imagine.
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Miraculix said:
I've fermented notti rather cold, it's clean, but still ale character if you ask me. To me 3470 fermented at room temperature tastes much more lager-like than a cold fermented Nottingham.
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Thank you both. Yeah, my experience with Notty at slightly higher temps is that it's pretty clean. It's helpful to hear that it's not as lager-like at cold temps as a lager yeast at warmer temps. I'll post back with how the beer comes out.

@z-bob, I'm glad to hear that your first lager came out well! :mug:
 
Update on the Novalager WF lager (the new 'it-girl' in the yeast world). Finally clearing out nicely, not that I care if my beer is bright and clear; if it tastes good, I'm good. Unless it's going to competition, then I care because the judges do. Few more days in and I'm getting a more lager-like taste from it as well. And I just brewed up another beer using the slurry from the first one, a simple grain bill of 9lbs two-row and 1lb of Munich 10, with Cascade for bittering and Comet for late hops. Fresh dry yeast lagged about 12 hours, eager to see how an overpitch of slurry does. Husband sometimes complains about the yeast jars in the fridge, but complaints stop when he sees how little I spend on said yeast. Going to take this batch of yeast out to at least four generations to see how it does.
 
seatazzz said:
Update on the Novalager WF lager (the new 'it-girl' in the yeast world). Finally clearing out nicely, not that I care if my beer is bright and clear; if it tastes good, I'm good. Unless it's going to competition, then I care because the judges do. Few more days in and I'm getting a more lager-like taste from it as well. And I just brewed up another beer using the slurry from the first one, a simple grain bill of 9lbs two-row and 1lb of Munich 10, with Cascade for bittering and Comet for late hops. Fresh dry yeast lagged about 12 hours, eager to see how an overpitch of slurry does. Husband sometimes complains about the yeast jars in the fridge, but complaints stop when he sees how little I spend on said yeast. Going to take this batch of yeast out to at least four generations to see how it does.
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It’s been 2.5 hrs. Has it started????
 
balrog said:
Seems like a "yes". Why do you have a tube into the fermenting beer?
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I'm betting that's the tube for the floating dip. Looks like it's probably the Anvil Junior so it would make sense in that case.

seatazzz said:
You decide.....
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Looks great and I appreciate the updates. Here's my Nova lager from last night. Clear as can be now and tasting pretty crisp :) Glad yours is cleaning up well.

PXL_20230324_031315138.MP.jpg
 
balrog said:
Seems like a "yes". Why do you have a tube into the fermenting beer?
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Floating dip tube. Not an Anvil Junior but a modified Fermonster with a pressure lid on it. Going very lodo on this guy. When it's time to crash I'll give it a little blast of co2 and let it rip. And kegging is a breeze.
 
My first experience with NovaLager:

Brewed an “Ultra” clone last Saturday (3/18) with:

7lb pils
1/4lb melanoidan
5oz dextrose

I hit it with ~5g of Glucoamylase at the mash, at 140*F for 45m- stepped to 152*F for another 45m- finished at 170*F and sparged.

30m boil and got ~1.041 OG added a triple dose of Wyeast Nutrients.

Got 5.25gal into the fermenter, and added another ~5-10g of Glucoamylase.
Temperature was at ~56*F in the basement

Edit* Fermented under pressure ~7-10psi

5 days later it was at 1.016 and I moved it upstairs to warm up (~68*F)

Today (8 days after pitching NovaLager) it is at 1.001 and I’m going to call it as the Final Gravity.
According to Brewersfriend abv calculator this is something like 97% attenuation- I usually get ~77%-83% without glucoamylase and regular lager strains.

Hitting it with DualFine (kiesosol /chitosan) today and hoping it’s kegged and served by April 1st.

Hydro sample is, well, decent! It was so cloying 3 days ago I was worried, but the temp boost finished it up a little TOO well. The mouthfeel is just like water, with a nice touch of beer flavor, and no hints of hot fusels/esters like I’ve had before when rushing (with other yeast strains). The alcohol taste is pretty well muted considering it’s over 5% and there’s only a little flavor to conceal the alcohol.

I’ll update in a few days when it gets served to the friends.

Pre and post fermentation hydro samples (both at around 70*F)
E6827388-68C3-4790-8249-54BE912B9619.jpeg

ADE184B3-0188-4448-B9E6-E5496CC7D256.jpeg
 
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Have there been good results with warm fermenting WLP830? If so what was your experience and what temp did you ferment at?
 
rtstrider said:
Have there been good results with warm fermenting WLP830? If so what was your experience and what temp did you ferment at?
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I just made a batch that was fermented “warmish” at around 55*F +/- 10*F this January in my basement without any temperature control. No diacetyl rest.

I am still lagering half this batch, but the first half of the batch was awesome. I don’t know if ~55*F “counts” as warm fermentation per this thread, but it definitely wasn’t a low as it should have been most of the time.

I got a nice lagery flavor from this batch, and no bad off flavors- perhaps a hint of the green apple when first carbonated, but it’s subsided now- nothing like Rolling Rock.

Fermented quick- Krausen within 36 hours, and the Krausen dropped after ~3days from forming. Aggressive fermentation with ~1.047OG wort.
 
Northern_Brewer said:
As a first approximation it should behave pretty similarly to 34/70...
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End result was very similar to 34/70.

It seemed to be halfway between Omega German Lager I and 34/70 for me. Not quite as lagery as Omega, but more so than 34/70. Again, this is just my preference among the 7 or so Lagers I’ve done so far.

I prefer Omega GL1 to 34/70 (when done warm (~60*F) due to the more prominent “Lager Bite” (I don’t like the term crisp) with Omega.

I do like 34/70 because in my (limited) experience it’s very clean, but it doesn’t have the lager umph that I’ve grown fond of in Omega’s version of the the Weihenstephan strain.

Again, to me it’s half way between the two strains
 
HutBrew said:
End result was very similar to 34/70.

It seemed to be halfway between Omega German Lager I and 34/70 for me. Not quite as lagery as Omega, but more so than 34/70. Again, this is just my preference among the 7 or so Lagers I’ve done so far.

I prefer Omega GL1 to 34/70 (when done warm (~60*F) due to the more prominent “Lager Bite” (I don’t like the term crisp) with Omega.

I do like 34/70 because in my (limited) experience it’s very clean, but it doesn’t have the lager umph that I’ve grown fond of in Omega’s version of the the Weihenstephan strain.

Again, to me it’s half way between the two strains
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Can you describe that umph? Is it a "tartness" or more of a sulfur like character by chance?
 
rtstrider said:
May just try that this summer for giggles. I've used 34/70 at 60F and was bland and clean. Not a bad thing :)
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No! Most the friends prefer the cleaner taste (or less flavor)

As far as “tartness” or “sulfur” I can’t really say… to me it’s the “Deutsche-Factor”

A few German imports I’ve gotten my hands on have had a similar “bite”or taste- something that pleasantly feels like you’re tasting it nasally when gulped- (sulfur?)

It’s something I occasionally taste in Miller Lite (though very subtle) but not other mass produced lagers, but I may be imagining things because I mostly drink Miller at bars.

I would lean more on a sulfur taste, but I’m not a BJCP by any means.
 
eliastheodosis said:
I'm betting that's the tube for the floating dip. Looks like it's probably the Anvil Junior so it would make sense in that case.


Looks great and I appreciate the updates. Here's my Nova lager from last night. Clear as can be now and tasting pretty crisp :) Glad yours is cleaning up well.

View attachment 816001
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How long has that been sitting? Mine is clearing but not that well, it's also crisp but still a bit fruity.
 
Pennine said:
How long has that been sitting? Mine is clearing but not that well, it's also crisp but still a bit fruity.
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It was conditioning for just over 7 weeks at that point. It has been this clear for a couple weeks, though. It definitely took its sweet time to clear up even with gelatin fining. That might be my biggest complaint with the yeast so far. It's crisp and malty but still has that fruity profile. Not overwhelming but definitely there. Just had a couple honest friends over to taste and take notes. Their reviews were similar and their overall impressions were positive. Basically the same as everyone else that has tried it. The esters are there but they are not unpleasant at all.
 
Yep! Using wlp810 (San Francisco Lager) yeast in a California Common, one of my favorite styles but first time brewing it in three years 🤔
 
eliastheodosis said:
It was conditioning for just over 7 weeks at that point. It has been this clear for a couple weeks, though. It definitely took its sweet time to clear up even with gelatin fining. That might be my biggest complaint with the yeast so far. It's crisp and malty but still has that fruity profile. Not overwhelming but definitely there. Just had a couple honest friends over to taste and take notes. Their reviews were similar and their overall impressions were positive. Basically the same as everyone else that has tried it. The esters are there but they are not unpleasant at all.
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I had another sample, and yeah that was my impression as well. It's also better cold, when it gets too warm the apple stands out more. Hints of cider in the aroma and flavor.
 
forgive me, high priests of WF, for i have sinned... it has been 11 weeks since my last post.

i... i... lord, this is so hard... i... pitched at 54*F <hides face in shame>

but it wasn't my fault! there i was, doing the first half of my annual blond-and-doppel spring lager brews (starting with a classic pilsner, 100% Mecca pils and german saaz - a SMaSH!), the brew day went really well, and i was chilling the BK... and suddenly satan sent his most evil minions (AKA my kids) to tempt and distract me, they led me away from the path of virtue, and woe unto me - i had chilled down to the low 50's. with no time left to pursue righteousness, i just ran with it. i excommunicated my sinful fermentors to the unholy and unheated woodshop, set up temp control for 54, and immediately shunned them. i can only pray that the rehydrated 34/70 can find it in their collective hearts (nuclei? mitochondria?) to see past my transgressions... there were signs of active fermentation the next morning, things were rippin' full steam by that evening - the lagers gods graced me with their smiles.

how many "hail Tastys" shall my penance be?
 
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