Using Carafa 3 or Blackprinz instead of roasted barley in an imperial stout?

[bmaupin]

My typical imperial stout uses 1.5# 350L roasted barley, or 1.5# mix of roasted barley and black patent. I like the roasted character/bite, but the roasted flavor could be better. I've used 1.25# 500L roasted barley before and the beer was too harsh for about a year. I like to be able to drink them without aging, but will allow them to age and since I make beer often enough I'll still have a bottle or 2 to enjoy after 2 years. I've also made a schwarzbier a couple times with 1# blackprinz and there really isn't much dark/roasted flavor and certainly no bite.

I use bru-n-water and add 3 to 5 grams of baking soda to bring the mash pH to 5.4.

I'd like to make an imperial stout with all blackprinz, or mostly blackprinz with maybe some roasted barley added to give it at least a little roasted bite. I am wondering if anyone has any related experience to share? I am wondering if like 2# blackprinz ends up with any roasted bite, or what 1# each blackprinz and roasted barley tastes like - I am leaning towards the latter.

 

[rhys333]

I can't speak to the malts mentioned, but if you're experiencing harshness from your roasted grains then I strongly advise raising your mash pH to 5.5, measured. Mine are smooth right off the line this way.

Now, you also mention Black Patent. If it were me, I'd lean towards that malt. My favorite stout is 50/50 BP and chocolate malt. I target 12% of grist, though in standard gravity ales. Beats the pants off roasted barley IMHO.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

blackprinz is debittered black malt, they remove the husks before roasting - the various malting houses have different trade names for their products.

the various chocolates and roasted barley as well as black malt are all basically the same thing, malt that has been roasted to a certain degree.

The various chocolates usually 180-250, roasted 300-450 and black above that, typically 500-600

often time blackprinz is use to adjust the color of a beer without imparting much flavor contribution, typically in a black saison or a black IPA.

I have made a black saison, just used my standard saison recipe and added a bit of blackprinz, it doesn't take much.

 

[rhys333]

the various chocolates and roasted barley as well as black malt are all basically the same thing, malt that has been roasted to a certain degree.

In my experience they result in significantly different flavor profiles. Even similar products by different maltsters. Black malt, for example. I find that UK Black Patent is different than domestic black malt (and arguably superior in quality).

 

[Steveruch]

To me blackprinz tastes like a mellow roast barley and I use it when making a cream or oatmeal stout.

 

[Brooothru]

That's my impression as well. I don't make many (as in NONE) stouts or porters since I don't drink them often enough to dedicate a whole keg to one batch, but I have used BlackPrinze three times in the past year for color adjustments and to add a hint of roastiness. It's on the "grist list" for this year's Seasonal Holiday Brew (an amber ale), and I've found it to be mild with little bite. Color without the caramel. 450L if I remember correctly, so you can use a little for darkening or a bit more for 'Moonless Midnight' if that's your goal, without overpowering your tastebuds. I like it better than most other de-husked Carafa malts out there.

 

[bmaupin]

I decided to open a bottle of schwarzbier and I can't imagine even 2# of blackprinz providing much flavor. I am going to have to re-think what roasted malts to use on my next impy. I'd welcome hearing any favorite combinations.

 

[VikeMan]

the various chocolates and roasted barley as well as black malt are all basically the same thing, malt that has been roasted to a certain degree.

Except that Roasted Barley isn't malt.

 

[Kickass]

Here’s my go to stout recipe. It’s a little light in those strong toasty flavors.

I use midnight wheat but I think the point here, kind of what you’re driving at, is using dehusked dark grains.

11 lb pale 2-row
2 lb flaked oats
1 lb roasted barley
1/2 lb midnight wheat
1/2 lb C90

If you want a softer, smooth stout, something similar to this will get you there.

 

[JacktardBrewmeister]

Thats a lot of dark malt in a stout to me, but perhaps you only need one dark malt (roasted or chocolate, blat patent, carafa III etc..) around 8oz to a pound and then use C120. Carafa III is not gonna help and Blackprinz is really just color and little flavor (as stated above). I guess I ponder the point or aim when having a lot of dark malts (unless you're experimenting like me to see what you can get away with). I'd say if you want that roasted flavor and not the bite (assuming 5 gallon batch), use any dark malt at 1 lb and add 1 to 3 pounds of C120. You could even do 1 lb and a half pound of two different dark malts as well.

 

[Brooothru]

Thats a lot of dark malt in a stout to me, but perhaps you only need one dark malt (roasted or chocolate, blat patent, carafa III etc..) around 8oz to a pound and then use C120. Carafa III is not gonna help and Blackprinz is really just color and little flavor (as stated above). I guess I ponder the point or aim when having a lot of dark malts (unless you're experimenting like me to see what you can get away with). I'd say if you want that roasted flavor and not the bite (assuming 5 gallon batch), use any dark malt at 1 lb and add 1 to 3 pounds of C120. You could even do 1 lb and a half pound of two different dark malts as well.

Oh, you'll still get roasted flavor with BlackPrinze. It's just not "in your face" roasting. I'd compare it to the difference between Starbucks' dark roast verses full city roast in brewed coffee. The taste is definitely there.

Brooo Brother

 

[JacktardBrewmeister]

That was kinda what I meant. XD But yeah, BP is the Prinz of pop as opposed to MJ being the king of pop. XD