Looking for unmalted roast barley - 500L - English v. Briess; NB lists "malt?"

[Gadjobrinus]

I'm looking for the 500L unmalted roast barley. I never made a ton of Irish stouts but my son loves it, and so I'd like to make it but not with the Briess 350L. Yet, Northern Brewer lists it as a malt, then describes it as unmalted.

Finest malts from the British Isles. If you want to make an authentic Dry Irish Stout, then you need to use roasted barley. It is made from unmalted barley, making it distinct from Black Malt which is made by roasting malted barley.

Doesn't help that NB answered the legit question a customer had with the rather asinine "just seeing if you were paying attention."

?

 

[DBhomebrew]

You don't provide a link, but my guess is it's the stuff you're looking for. The specific listing is probably more accurate than the webstore's categories.

"The malt bill for my Irish stout is 6% roasted (unmalted) barley." Not strictly accurate, but very true.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

You don't provide a link, but my guess is it's the stuff you're looking for. The specific listing is probably more accurate than the webstore's categories.

"The malt bill for my Irish stout is 6% roasted (unmalted) barley." Not strictly accurate, but very true.

Sorry, link provided. Thanks.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Sorry, link provided. Thanks.

Try again?

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Try again?

Ugh. Thanks. Here it is.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Weird that NB doesn't mention the maltster, but tons of comments report it as Crisp's roasted barley malt. I still think it's the unmalted stuff called malt because, you know, we brew beer with malt. They've even got a whole page of flaked unmalted adjuncts listed under the 'Malted Grain' category. I'd go with it.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Even Crisp describes it as unmalted, but also casually calls it a malt.

https://crispmalt.com/en-us/malts/roast-barley/

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Even Crisp describes it as unmalted, but also casually calls it a malt.

https://crispmalt.com/en-us/malts/roast-barley/

Ha! Yeah, just noticed that too. NB wrote back and confirmed it's unmalted. I replied with a thanks, and confirmation if it's Crisp.

Edit: Confirmed it's Crisp, imported either by Rahr or BSG.

 

[huckdavidson]

More inline with Guinness ~600L roast would be something like Bairds Roasted Barley. A little cheaper at RiteBrew but NB has a bigger selection.

https://www.bairds-malt.co.uk/roasted-malts/roasted-barley/

As its name implies, Roasted Barley is made from barley rather than malted barley. With a high colour specification, it brings strong, smoky, and full-bodied coffee flavours with almost black, deep red colour hues. Synonymous with Irish stouts but can be used in many other beer styles.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

More inline with Guinness ~600L roast would be something like Bairds Roasted Barley. A little cheaper at RiteBrew but NB has a bigger selection.

https://www.bairds-malt.co.uk/roasted-malts/roasted-barley/

It's a bit odd since Ritebrew lists 550L, but Baird's is listing (EBC) 1200-1500 EBC/609 SRM/450L, and ASBC/550-650 SRM/406-480L.

Crisp lists theirs as 1210-1500 EBC/615-762 SRM/457-581 L.

So not sure what they actually are, but on balance it seems that Crisp is actually darker. I can't recall if I used either years ago (probably note - I was doing Irish stouts pretty early on, and at that point I probably only knew Briess), so can't speak to the comparative quality of these two. Have you used both? Your thoughts?

 

[Wayne1]

Brewers Supply Group is owned by Rahr. They distribute Crisp and Simpsons which both offer unmalted roasted barley.

The Country Malt Group is owned by Great Western. The distribute Bairds and Fawcetts. Another two British maltsters that offer unmalted roasted barley.

It all depends on which distributor your home brew shop does business with as to whose malts they will sell.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Brewers Supply Group is owned by Rahr. They distribute Crisp and Simpsons which both offer unmalted roasted barley.

The Country Malt Group is owned by Great Western. The distribute Bairds and Fawcetts. Another two British maltsters that offer unmalted roasted barley.

It all depends on which distributor your home brew shop does business with as to whose malts they will sell.

My store is pretty heavy in Briess, though we do offer some good selections in Fawcett (GP, Brown, few more), Simpson's (1, again GP in rotation), as well as Dingemann's, Ayangar, Swaen and a few others. The only roasted barley they carry is Briess, though because I work there PT I can actually get ahold of stuff on special order, but they need to be a bag. In fact, I'm picking up a bag of either Fawcett or Warminster MO, waiting to hear back. We get 30% off everything, so pretty nice.

 

[huckdavidson]

It's a bit odd since Ritebrew lists 550L, but Baird's is listing (EBC) 1200-1500 EBC/609 SRM/450L, and ASBC/550-650 SRM/406-480L.

Crisp lists theirs as 1210-1500 EBC/615-762 SRM/457-581 L.

So not sure what they actually are, but on balance it seems that Crisp is actually darker. I can't recall if I used either years ago (probably note - I was doing Irish stouts pretty early on, and at that point I probably only knew Briess), so can't speak to the comparative quality of these two. Have you used both? Your thoughts?

Not sure on the color conversions but a Guiness like roast would be the darker of the two. Might be mislabeled on the RiteBrew website or might be from a different batch or a different malt like Black malt.

I'm not sure a Guinness style roast malt is even available for purchase at the homebrew level. Maybe Simpsons 600L Dark Roast.

I've probably used both in the past but don't recall the nuances to effectively communicate any noticeable difference.

As an aside are you going to sour a portion of the wort for that "Guinness tang"?

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Not sure on the color conversions but a Guiness like roast would be the darker of the two. Might be mislabeled on the RiteBrew website or might be from a different batch or a different malt like Black malt.

I'm not sure a Guinness style roast malt is even available for purchase at the homebrew level. Maybe Simpsons 600L Dark Roast.

I've probably used both in the past but don't recall the nuances to effectively communicate any noticeable difference.

As an aside are you going to sour a portion of the wort for that "Guinness tang"?

OK, thanks. Is the draft also soured then blended? Thought just the foreign export was.

 

[huckdavidson]

OK, thanks. Is the draft also soured then blended? Thought just the foreign export was.

Not sure, there are many theories on the subject. Perhaps a pH measurement of each would reveal something.

The Wikipedia page on Guiness Foreign Extra indicates it's soured "by blending fresh FES with two per cent FES that has been aged for up to 100 days, and has developed a high lactic acid content".

The Wikipedia page on Guiness Stout says "the company has refused to confirm whether this type of blending still occurs".

 

[PCABrewing]

OK, I know this thread is a couple months old but I think this question fits well here.

Responses in this thread clarify that Roasted Barley is not a malt, it is un-malted grain that is roasted.
That has always been my understanding as well.

Since it is never malted the enzymes were never activated to begin the process of modification to support conversion in the mash. So the endosperm is still a hard crystalized mass of protein and carbohydrates. And even if the amylase was somehow developed, the high temperature of roasting would denature them anyhow.
Agree thus far?
So we have a toasted hull surrounding toasted endosperm that has 0 diastatic power and so-far should have 0 or close to 0 sugars.

Roasted barley by itself cannot support conversion in the mash, not a big surprise neither can many dark malts, thus it could only give-up it's sugars if the mash has enough diastatic power contributed by other malt or added enzymes (supplemental).
But can that endosperm actually be utilized since the proteins have never been broken down, and if it can be, what can be utilized of the roasted starch molecules? Have they been rendered unusable beyond just being turned brown?
Can the starch still be converted?
Seems like it somehow is able to be converted since the potential listed for roasted barley is in the range of 1.033, or is that a broadly held mistake?
Is it the case that we only gain color and some "roasty" flavor from roasted barley but no sugars.

Do I have to do a mini-mash, actually two, to test this or has someone already done it?

Mini-mash one: Roasted barley only to confirm it cannot convert itself
Mini-mash two; Add some six-row to see if it results in added sugar from the roasted barley above and beyond the potential contribution of the six-row.