Treehouse Brewing Julius Clone

[melville]

My comment on yeast blending:
I run a small brewery in KY and we have done a lot of yeast blends (mostly for Belgian styles) - they are great for the first one or two batches, but after that some yeasts will out grow/dominate other yeasts and your fermentation flavor profile will migrate fairly quickly. It's not a reliable path, espeically when some of the breweries you all are talking about only brew a small variety of beers/styles.

I would say its very unlikely these breweries are doing yeast blends for their IPAs.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BRtD88JFtgn/?hl=en
I'm sure this isn't happened in a vacuum, likely learning from another brewery while doing a collaboration, etc.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

This makes no sense, unless you mean to say the haze isn't merely yeast in suspension. A beer made 1318 with the proper water profile and early dry hop even with no proteins added will still be a perfectly delicious and hazy NEIPA, not true for all yeasts.

A properly made NEIPA will be hazy regardless of what yeast is used and whether or not it remains in suspension or flocculates completely out. Therefore, the characteristic haze in the style is NOT the result of yeast in suspension.
Of course, anyone could choose to use a yeast that will remain in suspension, and that will add to the haziness, but the characteristic haze in the style is NOT a result of yeast in suspension.

Does that clear it up (my point, not the beer)?

 

[Tijuanatovar]

I'd be curious to know what question this was an answer to. He could be saying that the brewery chooses one of those yeasts when it makes a beer, not that it throws all of them in every beer.

Wouldn't it make sense for monkish since they're always putting out something different? I just asked what their house yeast is for their hoppy brews.

 

[skibb]

@melville everything I said still stands. I never said some aren't, I just said it's unlikely. That being said, I've haven't heard of that particular brewery but I can see a marketing aspect to it.

I've met and know a few of thse NEIPA brewers personally and none of them use yeast blends for the IPAs. The bigger breweries have to produce these IPAs constantly and consistently - having a shifting flavor with each new yeast generation doesn't fit that business model.

 

[melville]

@melville everything I said still stands. I never said some aren't, I just said it's unlikely. That being said, I've haven't heard of that particular brewery but I can see a marketing aspect to it.

I've met and know a few of thse NEIPA brewers personally and none of them use yeast blends for the IPAs. The bigger breweries have to produce these IPAs constantly and consistently - having a shifting flavor with each new yeast generation doesn't fit that business model.

Totally agree that it's infrequent.

 

[bleme]

what amounts did u use in each step - whirlpool and dryhop

The laptop that recipe was on crashed but I searched on here and finally found that I had posted it over 3 years ago! Isn't the internet awesome? I thought I had whirlpooled cooler than that but I've had a lot of beers since then...

Mash at 154F
6.5 lbs malted wheat
5.5 lbs 2-row
1 lb flaked wheat
1 lb chocolate wheat
.5 lb cara-wheat

All hops added AFTER flame-out and whirlpooled at 191F for 20 minutes. BeerSmith 2 estimates it at 60 IBU's.
1 ounce Centennial
1 ounce Cascade
3 ounces Belma

US-05 yeast

2 ounces Belma as dry hop

In addition to the citrus (from the Cascade and Centennial), there was another fruit in there but I couldn't identify it. Berry and melon are probably the closest, but still not right.

One of the other brewers did a Belma SMaSH and all I got from that was rotten strawberries. It was one of the most unpleasant beers I've tried, so I can see why so many brewers avoid Belma.

 

[melville]

A properly made NEIPA will be hazy regardless of what yeast is used and whether or not it remains in suspension or flocculates completely out. Therefore, the characteristic haze in the style is NOT the result of yeast in suspension.
Of course, anyone could choose to use a yeast that will remain in suspension, and that will add to the haziness, but the characteristic haze in the style is NOT a result of yeast in suspension.

Does that clear it up (my point, not the beer)?

I get your point, but it doesn't make sense, his Conan NEIPA cleared, and this isn't the first Conan NEIPA to clear. I've made unadjuncted NEIPAs with 1318 that are hazier. Yeast selection matters (IMO). If your point is that the OP's NEIPA wasn't properly made and that's why it cleared, I'd still argue that given the exact same process the 1318 would be hazier than the Conan.

 

[Jmash]

Only bottled 1 week but I'm an impatient bastid. Tried it yesterday. Very good. Looks like orange juice. I still would like to give it a sweeter taste though. I'm think maybe some Nelson next time.
Thoughts?

Poland Spring water and following separate additions to mash and to sparge
CaCl 1 tsp
Gypsum 1/2 tsp
Kosher salt 1/8 tsp
Epsom salt 1/4 tsp
32 pin drops lactic acid
PH 5.20
OG 1.067
FG 1.014

Mashed 60 minutes @155
10 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 56.6 %
3 lbs 11.7 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 3 21.2 %
1 lbs 2.4 oz Oats, Malted (Thomas Fawcett) (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 6.5 %
1 lbs Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 5 5.7 %
10.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 6 3.6 %
10.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 7 3.6 %
0.50 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 18.9 IBUs
0.25 oz Galaxy [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 9 8.8 IBUs
8.0 oz Turbinado [Boil for 10 min](10.0 SRM) Sugar 10 2.8 %
2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool @ 140 degrees ( missed 180. chilled quicker than expected) for 20.0 min Hop 11 24.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Steep/Whirlpool @ 140 degrees for 20 minutes Hop 12 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Steep/Whirlpool 140 degrees for 20 minutes Hop 13 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg London Ale III (Wyeast Labs #1318) [124.21 ml] Yeast 14 -
2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop Day 4
1.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop Day 4
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop Day 4
2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Dry Hop Day 12
1.00 oz Mosaic (HBC 369) [12.25 %] - Dry Hop Day 12
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop Day 12
Bottled day 14

 

[fatnhappy]

If anybody lives near Charlotte, NC check out Heist brewery. They have a beer called Citraquench'l that is identical to Julius. Stopped there on the way to Huna day and we were blown away. I took one sip and said "it's Julius". Hubby agreed. It's rotating, but worth seeking out. If anyone knows the brewer, I'd like to know more

 

[Tijuanatovar]

If anybody lives near Charlotte, NC check out Heist brewery. They have a beer called Citraquench'l that is identical to Julius. Stopped there on the way to Huna day and we were blown away. I took one sip and said "it's Julius". Hubby agreed. It's rotating, but worth seeking out. If anyone knows the brewer, I'd like to know more

Citraquenchal is bomb.

 

[Tijuanatovar]

Anyone care to share their favorite yeast strain on the style?

 

[melville]

Anyone care to share their favorite yeast strain on the style?

1318. (I'm using RVA Manchester but similar). Reliable. Visuals on point. Soft. Fruity esters, I really don't get why folks use anything else for this style.

 

[leesmith]

1318. (I'm using RVA Manchester but similar). Reliable. Visuals on point. Soft. Fruity esters, I really don't get why folks use anything else for this style.

Is the White Labs WLP038 Manchester Ale the same as the RVA strain?

 

[fatnhappy]

I used Yeast bay Vermont ale. Nice and fruity. Harvested it and about to do a 10 gallon batch. Putting 1318 in one fermenter and the yeast bay in the other

 

[stickyfinger]

I like these yeasts:

WLP095, WY1450, Gigayeast Conan strain - soft, round mouthfeel - attenuates well and reliably - easily obtainable if fresh stock required - no weird flavors ever - works great in other ale styles too

I've used WY1318 maybe 4 times and I haven't liked the beers as well, but it is a great yeast for the style in every way.

Currently cold-crashing a version with WLP002! excited to see how it does!

 

[melville]

Is the White Labs WLP038 Manchester Ale the same as the RVA strain?

It sounds different, based on their description, but I don't really know. RVA Manchester and 1318 are both presumed to be the Boddington's strain, maybe WLP038 is too?

 

[Tijuanatovar]

I've heard some prefer one over the other and it seems that 1318 has the best rapport. Having used several myself, none have jumped out at me. Even using 3711, my saison has a smooth mango tropical flavor. Kinda seems like each yeast can throw some nice fruit? Now I feel like I need to ferment the same wort on diff yeasts. Damnit.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

I haven't used 1318 yet, but I keep coming back to WLP007, but I like mine on the drier side anyway.
My last NEDIPA had an OG of 1.074 and finished at 1.012 and is incredibly drinkable at 8%abv.
I guess we all tend to settle with what works for us and stick with it.
That said, since my grain bill is set, with no more need of tweaking, my only variables for my house NEDIPA are yeast and hops, so there will be some experimentation in the future.
I guess my problem is that I like how mine are turning out so much that I don't see much need to change anything except dialing in my hops to lean more citrusy or more tropical or more or less dank for any given batch.

 

[Tijuanatovar]

I haven't used 1318 yet, but I keep coming back to WLP007, but I like mine on the drier side anyway.
My last NEDIPA had an OG of 1.074 and finished at 1.012 and is incredibly drinkable at 8%abv.
I guess we all tend to settle with what works for us and stick with it.
That said, since my grain bill is set, with no more need of tweaking, my only variables for my house NEDIPA are yeast and hops, so there will be some experimentation in the future.
I guess my problem is that I like how mine are turning out so much that I don't see much need to change anything except dialing in my hops to lean more citrusy or more tropical or more or less dank for any given batch.

What temp range does 007 throw the most fruity esters?

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Not sure. With so much fruity hops it's hard to identify what might be coming from the yeast. I'm not really worried about it. I ferment at 70 and know I'll get olenty fruit from the hops (galaxy, Citra, and sometimes another (most recently Azacca).

 

[olotti]

Ive used Conan, dennys fav 50, 1318 and I like 1318. It's finicky but with the right mash temp and ferm temps it attenuated well and I like the body and fruity flavor it adds better than the only-52 Conan strain I was using. I have some wlp007 I'd like to try plus those imperial yeasts look nice too. But for now if I make a neipa 1318 is my go to otherwise I like the only-52 Conan strain for lower abc apas and IPAs where I want less yeast presence and a drier beer, not 05 dry but in between.

 

[stickyfinger]

i was wondering about this for awhile. seems my neipa was hazier after i stopped using whirfloc:

http://brulosophy.com/2017/03/27/the-whirlfloc-effect-exbeeriment-results/

 

[noslenwerd]

Anyone catch this article yet? Tons of great information

The Effect of Post-Boil/Whirlpool Hop Additions on Bitterness in Beer

https://www.homebrewersassociation....-boilwhirlpool-hop-additions-bitterness-beer/

 

[jammin]

Anyone catch this article yet? Tons of great information

The Effect of Post-Boil/Whirlpool Hop Additions on Bitterness in Beer

https://www.homebrewersassociation....-boilwhirlpool-hop-additions-bitterness-beer/

Good read. Too bad they didn't find a threshold for isomerization. I chill to 170* prior to adding WP hops

 

[spreemotion]

Hi All-

Curious what a "general" mash temp falls into for these IPAs with lots of late hop additions. I have seen quite a few posts with mash temps 150-152 degrees, wouldn't that create quite a dry finish? I just finished up a brew, been conditioning in the keg a week, and its noticeably dry after a mash of 151.5 roughly. The nose is amazing and solid mouth feel. It is just somewhat dry, lacking some depth.

My grain bill was pretty standard
70% 2 Row
10% White Wheat
8% Flaked Oats
6% Crystal 20
6% Carapils

1 oz hopshot at boil
1 oz citra, amarillo and mosiac at flameout, rest all dry hops.

WLP001, fermented @ 66 for most of the 16-17 days in ferm, only used primary. Hops mostly amarillo, citra and little bit of mosiac.

Finished up @ 1.011, my efficiency was not great though. Water profile is RO, with some extremely minor additions per EZ water.

Any suggestions on anything obvious I might have missed?

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Hi All-

Curious what a "general" mash temp falls into for these IPAs with lots of late hop additions. I have seen quite a few posts with mash temps 150-152 degrees, wouldn't that create quite a dry finish? I just finished up a brew, been conditioning in the keg a week, and its noticeably dry after a mash of 151.5 roughly. The nose is amazing and solid mouth feel. It is just somewhat dry, lacking some depth.

My grain bill was pretty standard
70% 2 Row
10% White Wheat
8% Flaked Oats
6% Crystal 20
6% Carapils

1 oz hopshot at boil
1 oz citra, amarillo and mosiac at flameout, rest all dry hops.

WLP001, fermented @ 66 for most of the 16-17 days in ferm, only used primary. Hops mostly amarillo, citra and little bit of mosiac.

Finished up @ 1.011, my efficiency was not great though. Water profile is RO, with some extremely minor additions per EZ water.

Any suggestions on anything obvious I might have missed?

While I have used WLP001 on this style, I think your choice of one of the driest, most attenuative beer yeasts on the market may have something to do with it. I like WLP007, others like Conan or 1318.
Also, I always include (and recommend) around 20% Vienna in place of some of the Pale malt. It really adds some complexity of flavor and some malty backbone to an otherwise fairly boring grist.

 

[noslenwerd]

Hi All-

Curious what a "general" mash temp falls into for these IPAs with lots of late hop additions. I have seen quite a few posts with mash temps 150-152 degrees, wouldn't that create quite a dry finish? I just finished up a brew, been conditioning in the keg a week, and its noticeably dry after a mash of 151.5 roughly. The nose is amazing and solid mouth feel. It is just somewhat dry, lacking some depth.

My grain bill was pretty standard
70% 2 Row
10% White Wheat
8% Flaked Oats
6% Crystal 20
6% Carapils

1 oz hopshot at boil
1 oz citra, amarillo and mosiac at flameout, rest all dry hops.

WLP001, fermented @ 66 for most of the 16-17 days in ferm, only used primary. Hops mostly amarillo, citra and little bit of mosiac.

Finished up @ 1.011, my efficiency was not great though. Water profile is RO, with some extremely minor additions per EZ water.

Any suggestions on anything obvious I might have missed?

I'd recommend dropping the crystal. I've messed with a few grain combos, and I find that crystal gets in the way of letting the hops/"juice" shine.

This is what I have settled on and am pretty happy with.

Golden Promise 38.2%
Pale Malt 2 row 38.2%
Oats 18.3%
Cara-pills 2.8%
Acid Malt 2.4%

 

[stickyfinger]

While I have used WLP001 on this style, I think your choice of one of the driest, most attenuative beer yeasts on the market may have something to do with it. I like WLP007, others like Conan or 1318.
Also, I always include (and recommend) around 20% Vienna in place of some of the Pale malt. It really adds some complexity of flavor and some malty backbone to an otherwise fairly boring grist.

your malt seems fine to me. try a different yeast, drop the bittering down, add fewer dry hops and more kettle flavor hops/hopstand hops, add only calcium chloride. all of those things should get you the perception of a less dry beer. i mash at 165F frequently and like the results.

 

[noslenwerd]

your malt seems fine to me. try a different yeast, drop the bittering down, add fewer dry hops and more kettle flavor hops/hopstand hops, add only calcium chloride. all of those things should get you the perception of a less dry beer. i mash at 165F frequently and like the results.

Wow.. 165 mash temp?

And good results you say? I've never heard of mash temps that high.

 

[stickyfinger]

Wow.. 165 mash temp?

And good results you say? I've never heard of mash temps that high.

Yeah, modern malt must be loaded with beta amylase. as an example, a recent NEIPA I did had 90% GW 2-row and 10% GW C15 at 165F with a mashout. Fermented with WY1318, I still got around 75%AA going from 1.067 to 1.016. If I had mashed at 150ish, it would have probably gone over 85%AA and been at least 1%ABV higher. I don't notice any "sweetness" from doing this. I'd like to do a side by side of that some day as well - mash one at 150 and one at 165 and see if I can tell a difference flavor-wise.