Treehouse Brewing Julius Clone

[jammin]

So what is everyone's view on hopstand hops? Is there a certain temperature you add them at?

I plan on adding a couple ounces at 190deg, and letting it sit for 30 minutes.

Sidenote.. very cool experiment on hopstand hops.

http://brulosophy.com/2016/05/02/hop-stand-vs-20-minute-boil-addition-exbeeriment-results/

I don't add above 170* bc even @ 180 you can get some isomerization. These NEIPA styles are great with low bitterness & with the large WP additions a high WP temp can pump up the IBU's easily. Most aroma compounds are easily volatilized at warmer temps so a lower WP temp should theoretically mitigate driving those flavors off; I also believe a long WP is counterproductive with that in mind

 

[JJ900]

Tijuana what was the timing of your dry hops in relation to fermentation? Did you add one during active ferment?

 

[MaCheFai]

2 words, lupulin powder

 

[noslenwerd]

Feedback on my NE IPA recipe? This is for a 3 gallon batch.

I didn't include dry hops in the screen shot (to be determined).

Am I too heavy handed on the 5 min and whirlpool additions? I assume taht IBU estimate is extremely high?

 

[Cavpilot2000]

IMO, you are WAY too heavy on the 5 min and whirlpool additions. My last NEIPA had a 3 oz flameout addition (Azacca, Citra, Galaxy) with only one ounce actually boiled for 15 min (no 60 min boil) and I got WAY more bitterness than I intended.
Do NOT underestimate the bittering contribution of late additions. This style really needs no 60 min addition if your intent is to keep the normal low bitterness (but bitter away, if you like!).

 

[stickyfinger]

Feedback on my NE IPA recipe? This is for a 3 gallon batch.

I didn't include dry hops in the screen shot (to be determined).

Am I too heavy handed on the 5 min and whirlpool additions? I assume taht IBU estimate is extremely high?

i'd drop the 60 min addn as well

 

[Tijuanatovar]

So what is everyone's view on hopstand hops? Is there a certain temperature you add them at?

I plan on adding a couple ounces at 190deg, and letting it sit for 30 minutes.

Sidenote.. very cool experiment on hopstand hops.

http://brulosophy.com/2016/05/02/hop-stand-vs-20-minute-boil-addition-exbeeriment-results/

I bought into the whole pre-chill too. I think it's BS. Maybe with a select few hop strains, but book ending works fine. What I'd be more interested in is the hop additions prior to KO. Also, take the brulosophy results with a grain of salt.

 

[Tijuanatovar]

Tijuana what was the timing of your dry hops in relation to fermentation? Did you add one during active ferment?

Dry hop was 4 oz for 4 gallons at day 4 into primary. Next time I'll dry hop twice, once at pitch and second for only 2 days near FG. 🍻

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Yeah, whirlpool hopping is overrated and unnecessary.
Too much trouble with no benefit that can't be gained through simpler methods.

 

[stickyfinger]

Yeah, whirlpool hopping is overrated and unnecessary.
Too much trouble with no benefit that can't be gained through simpler methods.

really? just tried my first 90-min whirlpool and was looking forward to the results. i've done no whirlpool to 90-min whirlpool now, no kettle hops to hop bursting. I still am on the fence about what gives the ultimate flavor. I have done beers with large whirlpool that have been mediocre to great. I have done beers with no dry hop to massive dry hop that were great. It's hard to make definitive statements comparing different techniques with so many variables it seems. I KNOW that dry-hop only, hop-stand only and hop-bursted beers can all have incredible hop flavor, so that complicates matters if nothing else does!

 

[Tijuanatovar]

Anyone done any yeast blending? Monkish sent me a message saying they use; 1098/007, so4, Conan and/or 1318... so I'm assuming their blending their ish.

 

[jammin]

really? just tried my first 90-min whirlpool and was looking forward to the results. i've done no whirlpool to 90-min whirlpool now, no kettle hops to hop bursting. I still am on the fence about what gives the ultimate flavor. I have done beers with large whirlpool that have been mediocre to great. I have done beers with no dry hop to massive dry hop that were great. It's hard to make definitive statements comparing different techniques with so many variables it seems. I KNOW that dry-hop only, hop-stand only and hop-bursted beers can all have incredible hop flavor, so that complicates matters if nothing else does!

The way I see the purpose of a hop stand is to utilize the hot/warm wort to expediently extract/dissolve hops oils into solution. It seems that many people have based their process on how long it takes commercial batches to cool assuming that it is optimal. I don't believe this to be true. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes to dissolve these oils into solution.

Mark it down that you heard from jammin first

 

[Cavpilot2000]

really? just tried my first 90-min whirlpool and was looking forward to the results. i've done no whirlpool to 90-min whirlpool now, no kettle hops to hop bursting. I still am on the fence about what gives the ultimate flavor. I have done beers with large whirlpool that have been mediocre to great. I have done beers with no dry hop to massive dry hop that were great. It's hard to make definitive statements comparing different techniques with so many variables it seems. I KNOW that dry-hop only, hop-stand only and hop-bursted beers can all have incredible hop flavor, so that complicates matters if nothing else does!

I'm not saying it doesn't do anything, mind you.
It's just extra time and work added to my brew day for a benefit that I haven't found to be unique or notably better than flameout additions that just hang out in the kettle through the chilling process, or early (bio-trans) dry hopping, both of which require zero extra work or time. I love brewday, and it's sacred to me, but I'm not going to add 30, 60, or 90 minutes to it for something that I can't point to as specifically being beneficial to me.

Maybe if your system is automated, and it's a set-it-and-forget-it kind of thing, that might be worthwhile, but for my setup, it's additional hassle.

Also, I have found whirlpooling to add bitterness in a way that can't really be predicted by software, so it's a crapshoot as to how much you are going to get out of it.

But that's just my experience/opinion. YMMV.

 

[elburrogrande]

Anyone done any yeast blending? Monkish sent me a message saying they use; 1098/007, so4, Conan and/or 1318... so I'm assuming their blending their ish.

Ive used 1711/007 successfully in NE IPAs before specially with DIPA where you might want to dry them out

 

[noslenwerd]

I bought into the whole pre-chill too. I think it's BS. Maybe with a select few hop strains, but book ending works fine. What I'd be more interested in is the hop additions prior to KO. Also, take the brulosophy results with a grain of salt.

Not a fan of brulosophy?

 

[bleme]

Yeah, whirlpool hopping is overrated and unnecessary.
Too much trouble with no benefit that can't be gained through simpler methods.

A few years ago when Belma was selling for $5/lb, nearly everyone in my brewclub did a beer featuring Belma. I did a Cascadian Dark with only whirlpool and dryhops and nobody could believe the depth that it produced. It was, by far, the best Belma beer of the year.

 

[stickyfinger]

A few years ago when Belma was selling for $5/lb, nearly everyone in my brewclub did a beer featuring Belma. I did a Cascadian Dark with only whirlpool and dryhops and nobody could believe the depth that it produced. It was, by far, the best Belma beer of the year.

what amounts did u use in each step - whirlpool and dryhop

 

[noslenwerd]

A few years ago when Belma was selling for $5/lb, nearly everyone in my brewclub did a beer featuring Belma. I did a Cascadian Dark with only whirlpool and dryhops and nobody could believe the depth that it produced. It was, by far, the best Belma beer of the year.

interesting.. what type of flavors did you get from belma? I read sometimes you can get berry?

 

[TheHairyHop]

Not a fan of brulosophy?

sampling sizes tend to be way too small to draw conclusions regardless of using statistical tools, and normally involve "p-value hunting" where a wide conclusion is drawn from one statistic. a good example is this

http://brulosophy.com/2017/03/06/hop-comparison-galaxy-vs-mosaic-exbeeriment-results/

where it is concluded people "were not able to reliably distinguish a Galaxy single-hop beer from a similar beer hopped only with Mosaic." but this is heavily interpreting results. if those 17 people could tell one from the other, time and again, then they are indeed reliably distinguishing one from the other. not to mention that the previous experiments showed markedly different flavor wheels from participants.

 

[melville]

Anyone done any yeast blending? Monkish sent me a message saying they use; 1098/007, so4, Conan and/or 1318... so I'm assuming their blending their ish.

Genuinely curious — is that how they typed it out because that sounds like they could use 007, or s04, or Conan, or 1318 — or was that them spelling out the ingredients of their mix?

FYI, having used Tree House harvested yeast, wouldn't surprise me at all if it's more than one strain, almost seems likely.

 

[melville]

Anyone got ideas as to why some NEIPAs can drop super clear?....

The hazy one was a sample pulled at day 7 and the clear one was pulled at day 22nd (12 days on carb).

The thing is, I used zero; finings, wort clarifiers, Irish moss, or wirlfloc. Just 1 tsp of ascorbic acid at 5 mins left in the boil. Conan yeast and about 4 lbs of flaked adjuncts... soooo, how the crap did it drop so damn clear???

Simple answer is Conan clears.

 

[melville]

I'd really love to hear people's opinions on using Galaxy only as an accent dry-hop. I've never had Treehouse's Green, but people are saying that it's "accented" with Galaxy. What other hops are they using? Does anyone know particular ratios of these hops used in dry-hop additions?

It's 80 percent Galaxy. No doubt actually accented by Columbus and Citra? or Amarillo? (one of their faves).

 

[Cavpilot2000]

The haze in NEIPAs in absolutely NOT a function of the yeast.
Period.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

It's 80 percent Galaxy. No doubt actually accented by Columbus and Citra? or Amarillo? (one of their faves).

I did one where the dry hop was all 50/50 Citra/Galaxy and it was very much a Julius/Green hybrid.

 

[melville]

I did one where the dry hop was all 50/50 Citra/Galaxy and it was very much a Julius/Green hybrid.

Since Nate has said Green is 80% Galaxy, it wouldn't surprise if Julius is something similarly high percentages Citra with Columbus (and ?)

 

[Tijuanatovar]

Genuinely curious — is that how they typed it out because that sounds like they could use 007, or s04, or Conan, or 1318 — or was that them spelling out the ingredients of their mix?

FYI, having used Tree House harvested yeast, wouldn't surprise me at all if it's more than one strain, almost seems likely.

Monkish spelled it exactly like that. I'm assuming treehouse is using Conan and something else, maybe SO4? dunno

 

[melville]

The haze in NEIPAs in absolutely NOT a function of the yeast.
Period.

This makes no sense, unless you mean to say the haze isn't merely yeast in suspension. A beer made 1318 with the proper water profile and early dry hop even with no proteins added will still be a perfectly delicious and hazy NEIPA, not true for all yeasts.

 

[Tijuanatovar]

Simple answer is Conan clears.

Does Conan always drop clear?

 

[skibb]

My comment on yeast blending:
I run a small brewery in KY and we have done a lot of yeast blends (mostly for Belgian styles) - they are great for the first one or two batches, but after that some yeasts will out grow/dominate other yeasts and your fermentation flavor profile will migrate fairly quickly. It's not a reliable path, espeically when some of the breweries you all are talking about only brew a small variety of beers/styles.

I would say its very unlikely these breweries are doing yeast blends for their IPAs.

 

[bleme]

Anyone done any yeast blending? Monkish sent me a message saying they use; 1098/007, so4, Conan and/or 1318... so I'm assuming their blending their ish.

I'd be curious to know what question this was an answer to. He could be saying that the brewery chooses one of those yeasts when it makes a beer, not that it throws all of them in every beer.