Top 5 Dry Yeasts?

[BrewnWKopperKat]

IIRC, the AHA forums discussion was focused on a couple of popular Fermentis & Lallemand strains (US-05, S-04, Nottingham).

 

[Protos]

In my experience, US-05 gets better with subsequent repitches and Nottingham stays largely stable just getting a bit more estery..
S-04, I have never repitched it, though I did many Generation 0 pitches of it and every batch came out outrageously acidic, so I didn't bother with harvesting it. I was told however it gradually looses its signature sourness in further generations. Haven't checked this yet. Plan to do it sometime when I have a surplus of grains and free time to sacrifice for another probable failed S-04 batch.

 

[rallenhall]

Fermentis S-23 is another underappreciaded diamond in the ruff, but it's unpopular because few seem to know where and how to use it correctly

You may have discussed this in another thread (haven't searched), but can you briefly explain how you use S-23? I have a couple of packs in the fridge, but most of my searches for applications have ended with user horror stories.

 

[Pehlman17]

You may have discussed this in another thread (haven't searched), but can you briefly explain how you use S-23? I have a couple of packs in the fridge, but most of my searches for applications have ended with user horror stories.

I’m curious as well. I’d love to hear some best practices for S-23.

 

[Protos]

OK, to not to repeat myself I just quote what I've said on S-23 in one thread:

I like S-23 very much. I like it way more than W34/70, it's a unique strain that produces a clean Lager with a tiniest bit estery oomph.
It's not an all-purpose Lager yeast though. It won't make a perfect German Pilsner: it's a bit too oomphy for that.
However, it's the only dry yeast to make the genuine Wiener Lager. Also, it's the best dry option for the true historical Polish Baltic Porter. Much better than M84.
I think of it as of perfect yeast for all things Austro-Hungarian, be that Wiener or all sorts of Bohemian. And also for all things Polish: Baltic Porter and Polish Pilsners that stand closer to Czech than to German.
Wiener, Czech & Polish Lagers, Baltic Porter. That's all.
Don't try anything German or "International", you'll be disappointed (and that's where most of the complains for this yeast comes from). I don't know much about S-23 in American recipes, I rarely brew American Lagers, and when I do I use W34/70.

It's a warm-loving yeast. 51F is a bit too cold for it. At such a low temp it could just drop off (another reason for many internet complaints). I ferment it no lower than 12C/54F, and ideally at 14C/57F. It must have some tiny esters, it's not a fault with this strain.

And added a bit in another:

That's great you have some S-23, it's a great yeast. Just be wise about choosing your style: S-23 is a pretty estery yeast as far as Lager yeasts go (no comparison to the Ale yeast ester levels though), so a German or Scandinavian Lager brewed with S-23 most likely will come out as a faulty one (hence the bad rap S-23 gets in the interwebs). S-23 is ideal not for German but for Austrian, Czech and Polish Lagers which are traditionally a bit more estery than German. Brew a Wiener, a Budweiser or a Zywiec with it (I'm not touching the subject of Porter Baltycki or Boehmisches Dunkles, as we're talking about light beers now). With those styles, you'll be spot on.

There might be more helpful responses from more experienced Lager-brewers but that's what I think on this yeast.

 

[Protos]

I remember, I also read that S-23 is a good choise for Classic (pre-prohibition) American Lagers. That might be a good suggestion, taking into account the Austrian pedigree of this style. But I don't have any personal experience on this subject to share as I've never brewed an American Lager with it.

 

[Miraculix]

I remember, I also read that S-23 is a good choise for Classic (pre-prohibition) American Lagers. That might be a good suggestion, taking into account the Austrian pedigree of this style. But I don't have any personal experience on this subject to share as I've never brewed an American Lager with it.

Makes me wonder if this one is actually also nice at warmer temperatures like 18c to 20 c. Possibly enhanced ester levels, but must not be a bad thing if one does not expect a clean lager. Maybe an american steam beer or maybe a tropical stout would be good with it?

 

[z-bob]

3. Belgian Ale (Trappist/Abbey styles specifically)

I've got an interesting one for this, K1V-1116 wine yeast. I brewed a very simple dubbel with it about 6 weeks ago. The final gravity was not quite as low as I expected but it was close (1.018) and at bottling the beer tasted a little bit sweet. I'm drinking the first of 4 plastic bottles right now (I know I'm rushing it.) The sweet taste is gone. It has a nice nose to it, ester-y but not banana; I can't describe it. My carbonation level is not as high as it should be, (that sweetness worried me so I may have backed off the priming sugar a little) but it's very enjoyable. I'll give the ones in glass a few more months to mature, then take a couple to a homebrew club meeting where there are some brewers that really know Belgians and see what they think.

Now I want to try it in a tripel, where I don't need any expensive dark sugar and can use more hops.

 

[Miraculix]

I've got an interesting one for this, K1V-1116 wine yeast. I brewed a very simple dubbel with it about 6 weeks ago. The final gravity was not quite as low as I expected but it was close (1.018) and at bottling the beer tasted a little bit sweet. I'm drinking the first of 4 plastic bottles right now (I know I'm rushing it.) The sweet taste is gone. It has a nice nose to it, ester-y but not banana; I can't describe it. My carbonation level is not as high as it should be, (that sweetness worried me so I may have backed off the priming sugar a little) but it's very enjoyable. I'll give the ones in glass a few more months to mature, then take a couple to a homebrew club meeting where there are some brewers that really know Belgians and see what they think.

Now I want to try it in a tripel, where I don't need any expensive dark sugar and can use more hops.

PLease do not tell them upfront what type of yeast it is. Just tell them it is Belgian and that you want their unbiased oppinion. And then please share the results with us!

 

[dmtaylor]

Other than 34/70 and maybe S-189, I feel like most people seem to have better experiences with the Lallemand strains over Fermentis. “US-05 is peachy, S-04 tastes like sourdough, K-97 is a murky mess…” does this track or are those just opinions that might just be based off of old stereotypes?

Good point. I tend to agree that in general, I've been happier with Lallemand's products than Fermentis'. But like you mention, there are a few tasty exceptions. I myself have been happy with S-04, and also even have a good batch right now with S-23. A previous S-23 batch was not as good as my current one, glad I gave it another shot, otherwise I might be missing something... which I still think is true for many people who constantly poo-poo the S-04.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Makes me wonder if this one is actually is also nice at warmer temperatures like 18c to 20 c. Possibly enhanced ester levels, but must not be a bad thing if one does not expect a clean lager.

Well I think that's the thing - the average lager brewer expects lager yeast to be clean, and my impression from the warm-fermented-lager thread is that people don't like S-23 fermented warm. It seems to be a close relative of the Urquell yeast, and also of eg WLP940 so might be suitable (fermented cold) for Mexican-style lagers?

I've currently got a beer fermenting with BE-256 which is one of those that doesn't get much attention - it might be an interesting one to try for British styles.

Also T-58 is fun, it's very biotransformy (turns eg Chinook grapefruit into a more complex limey flavour) but its light phenols might be blended with Notty for a more northern English kind of yeast, although I've not tried it.

 

[mac_1103]

Funny, I have a strong blond fermenting right now with T-58 for the phenols and biotransformation and then BE-256 for some extra attenuation. It'll probably end up a hot mess but how else am I supposed to learn?

 

[Red over White]

S-23 has been a great yeast under pressure for me, as well as S-189. Both do well under pressure from 58-68°F naturally building pressure to 10 psi and come out very clean. S23 gives a good balanced profile while S189 leaves it a little maltier. They have been very consistent performers, just like clockwork.

 

[Miraculix]

Well I think that's the thing - the average lager brewer expects lager yeast to be clean, and my impression from the warm-fermented-lager thread is that people don't like S-23 fermented warm. It seems to be a close relative of the Urquell yeast, and also of eg WLP940 so might be suitable (fermented cold) for Mexican-style lagers?

I've currently got a beer fermenting with BE-256 which is one of those that doesn't get much attention - it might be an interesting one to try for British styles.

Also T-58 is fun, it's very biotransformy (turns eg Chinook grapefruit into a more complex limey flavour) but its light phenols might be blended with Notty for a more northern English kind of yeast, although I've not tried it.

Don't give me more ideas.....

 

[Franktalk]

Well I think that's the thing - the average lager brewer expects lager yeast to be clean, and my impression from the warm-fermented-lager thread is that people don't like S-23 fermented warm. It seems to be a close relative of the Urquell yeast, and also of eg WLP940 so might be suitable (fermented cold) for Mexican-style lagers?

Yes, I have brewed a Negra Modelo clone fermented with S-23 that was excellent. Kept it around 55 F and brought it up at the end. It was almost indistinguishable from the real thing.

S-23 will also work at around 60 for a nice California Common. It will be a bit fruity, but that is okay in a steam beer.

 

[TBA]

Any dry yeast suggestions for an Irish Extra Stout?

 

[Franktalk]

Definitely, Safale S04.

 

[TBA]

What temperature profile would you recommend?

 

[AlexKay]

Any dry yeast suggestions for an Irish Extra Stout?

Lallemand London @ 70 F.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Any dry yeast suggestions for an Irish Extra Stout?

Well if you're aiming for a Guinness style you want something with decent attenuation, so the likes of Windsor, S-33 and Lallemand London are not what you want.

You're looking more like Nottingham, or a Notty/Windsor blend, or as a left-field choice BE-256 which is British in origin, I've got my first beer with it crashing at the moment.

 

[balrog]

Any dry yeast suggestions for an Irish Extra Stout?

I do Josh Weikert's Dry Irish Stout, a crowd fav, with WY1007.

 

[AlexKay]

I do Josh Weikert's Dry Irish Stout, a crowd fav, with WY1007.

I've made "Irish" stout with K97, which is sorta-kinda 1007. It wasn't bad at all! I'm off K97 lately, but it makes me wonder ... how about Lallemand Koln? It's clean with some esters, and attenuates (quite) well.

 

[balrog]

I've made "Irish" stout with K97, which is sorta-kinda 1007. It wasn't bad at all! I'm off K97 lately, but it makes me wonder ... how about Lallemand Koln? It's clean with some esters, and attenuates (quite) well.

While I've used the Lalemand Koln, I've not used it in the stout. I'll look up my notes when I get back around them to see what the attenuation similarities or tasting notes were for the beers in which I used the Koln vs 1007.

 

[Pehlman17]

I've made "Irish" stout with K97, which is sorta-kinda 1007. It wasn't bad at all! I'm off K97 lately, but it makes me wonder ... how about Lallemand Koln? It's clean with some esters, and attenuates (quite) well.

I had the exact same thought. I might try his recipe for a session-strength Old Rasputin but using LalBrew Koln.

 

[TBA]

I tried LalBrew Koln several months back for a Kolsch and really liked it. I then repitched it for a west coast IPA and that was also good. Should have saved some of that cake!

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Nottingham is probably the closest dry yeast to the liquid Irish ale yeast, I think.

 

[balrog]

While I've used the Lalemand Koln, I've not used it in the stout. I'll look up my notes when I get back around them to see what the attenuation similarities or tasting notes were for the beers in which I used the Koln vs 1007.

ok, @AlexKay , the 3 times I used Lalemand Koln Kolsch dry I got avg 83% apparent attenuation. About 1.050 to about 1.008. The first time was straight from the packet, the other 2 times I first made a starter for greater pitch rate and overbuild saving, then made starter with the saved, and both times I got 84% apparent attenuation. All 3 times was a simple pale ale.

WHen I made the Dry Irish Stouts with WY1007, I get 72-75% apparent attenuation; 72% first gen overbuild, 75% succeeding overbuilds.

Subsequently, should I decide to use Lalemand Koln in the stout recipe, I would make adjustments, at the least for the attenuation, and I might think about adjusting for the anticipated thinness, although the whole idea is a dry, light, but roasty beer.

 

[Pehlman17]

I was just listening to an episode of the Experimental Brewing podcast, an episode called "Doubly Bitter with Bob". The guest was talking about a recent trip to Belgium, and one thing he said that I found quite interesting was how many homebrewers, Americans especially, might be surprised just how many Belgian breweries use dry yeast. De Ranke in particular was the focus of the discussion and it sounds like they use a blend of two dry strains, one of which might be S-33, which I suppose would make more sense as to why it's marketed by Fermentis as a Belgian strain. Even though it's maybe not Belgian in origin I wonder how often it's used because of a certain flavor component it brings, and likely blended with something else that could provide the attenuation. Either that, or I wonder how much they could offset the typical attenuation with a strain like that by using a combination of lower mash temps, higher fermentation temps, and a decent sized dose of simple sugars.

I'm curious as to how much of the so-called "Belgian" beer characteristics are less derived from yeast origin and more so a function of overall process. It sounds like many of the brewers there are not as precious about their yeast as we might assume in terms of using some magical holy grail strain. But mostly just want something that gets the job done simply and reliably.

 

[Pehlman17]

I’ve been considering lately the idea to brew some of the since retired Stone beers from The Craft of Stone Brewing Co book. I know WLP007 has been the go-to yeast for cloning Stone beers and it’s a yeast I’ve personally used and enjoyed a bunch. I’ve heard some talk about S-04 being considered a good substitute. I’m curious as to whether those who’ve used S-04 a lot would agree. Or would Nottingham perhaps be a better choice? I feel like the Stone beers always had a noticeable yet subtle English ester character. Any advice for bringing a bit of that out of S-04 and/or Nottingham?

Edit: I read in this article that Mitch Steele uses S-04 in his brewpub’s English porter. He recommends pitching at 68F and letting it rise to 72F, which seems to be pretty in line with the fermentation temp he would give for Stone recipes in the past.

 

[Pehlman17]

...BE-256 which is British in origin, I've got my first beer with it crashing at the moment.

Definitely curious about this one. What did you make and how did it turn out?