Top 5 Dry Yeasts?

[moreb33rplz]

Nope, it's described as inferior compared with subsequent brews fermented with repitched yeast. And my observations to date support it. If you study brewing science in the UK that's what you'll be taught and what you'll practice as a professional brewer. Mainly because that's what has been determined empirically by those who have bothered to consider it. Contrarianism is such a weak position, at best.

Can you link where you've read that yeast is inferior if used first generation? Because that sounds like bull to me, or at least the truth is more nuanced and depends on certain things

 

[AlexKay]

I have two Bo Pils made with 34/70 on tap right now; one is generation 0 and the other generation 1. To my palate they are identical. I am planning on bringing them to my next homebrew club meeting and doing a triangle test with a dozen+ people.

I just read “Serial Repitching of Dried Lager Yeast”, Serial Repitching of Dried Lager Yeast

It’s out of Lallemand, but it’s in a peer-reviewed journal. The gist seems to be — at least for Lallemand Diamond — that you can repitch dry yeast pretty much exactly as you would liquid. It gets more consistent but a little less clean with subsequent generations, which I would find less than ideal.

 

[Oleson M.D.]

I have two Bo Pils made with 34/70 on tap right now; one is generation 0 and the other generation 1. To my palate they are identical. I am planning on bringing them to my next homebrew club meeting and doing a triangle test with a dozen+ people.

I just read “Serial Repitching of Dried Lager Yeast”, Serial Repitching of Dried Lager Yeast

It’s out of Lallemand, but it’s in a peer-reviewed journal. The gist seems to be — at least for Lallemand Diamond — that you can repitch dry yeast pretty much exactly as you would liquid. It gets more consistent but a little less clean with subsequent generations, which I would find less than ideal.

Good article. It confirms our experience in yeast harvesting.

The yeast has remained clean throughout. Not a real difference in flavor between gen 1 and gen 4. But a large difference in yeast viability with associated decrease in lag time.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

It’s out of Lallemand, but it’s in a peer-reviewed journal.

Nice article from 2018.

Current Lallemand Technical Data Sheets recommend aeration when re-pitching with Diamond Lager. And Nottingham. And maybe your favorite Lallemand strain as well.

Lallemand also has a "best practices" download on making a starter with Diamond Lager.

 

[tracer bullet]

Nice article from 2018.

Current Lallemand Technical Data Sheets recommend aeration when re-pitching with Diamond Lager. And Nottingham. And maybe your favorite Lallemand strain as well.

Lallemand also has a "best practices" download on making a starter with Diamond Lager.

I also notice the say aeration isn't needed on 1st use. And they do recommend rehydration, but mention for some styles it may not be noticeable (not enough stress placed on the yeast) but for others, i.e. high gravity, it becomes more highly recommended.

Just info in case anyone using it didn't know.

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/docs/products/tds/TDS_LALBREW_PREM_NOTTINGHAM_ENGLISH_DIGITAL.pdf

 

[duncan_disorderly]

1. Verdant
2. M44
3. Abbaye
4. M21
5. Belle Saison

 

[duncan_disorderly]

I hear a lot of good things about Verdant. I know most people seem to be using it for NEIPA but that’s not really my thing. I would love to try it out for a Best Bitter or something though if you think it would be a good choice. I assume it’s similar to London Ale III which I believe is the Boddinton’s strain, yeah?

Sorry for the late response!

I've used Verdant now quite a few times in different beers. It is the same strain as 1318 but it was isolated from the yeast at the Verdant brewery in Cornwall in SW England. It doesn't taste like an English yeast though. I can only imagine that this is because Verdant makes American style hoppy Beers, lots of IPAs, so the yeast has been repeatedly subjected to American fruity hops. Hence the Verdant IPA moniker. It's good for American IPA. It's fruity in a stone fruit way.

In other regards it behaves and feels like an English strain. I use it in American pales but also in brown ales and porters where it does really well for me. I like how it treats the malt.

I'm drinking an English pale with English hops that was made with Notty and Verdant and I like the beer but it doesn't really feel English. Sort of hybrid. Like a dash of fruit juice was added.

We need Lallemand to do the same job with a non tainted English strain, methinks.

 

[Miraculix]

Sorry for the late response!

I've used Verdant now quite a few times in different beers. It is the same strain as 1318 but it was isolated from the yeast at the Verdant brewery in Cornwall in SW England. It doesn't taste like an English yeast though. I can only imagine that this is because Verdant makes American style hoppy Beers, lots of IPAs, so the yeast has been repeatedly subjected to American fruity hops. Hence the Verdant IPA moniker. It's good for American IPA. It's fruity in a stone fruit way.

In other regards it behaves and feels like an English strain. I use it in American pales but also in brown ales and porters where it does really well for me. I like how it treats the malt.

I'm drinking an English pale with English hops that was made with Notty and Verdant and I like the beer but it doesn't really feel English. Sort of hybrid. Like a dash of fruit juice was added.

We need Lallemand to do the same job with a non tainted English strain, methinks.

Exactly my thoughts.

That would be sooooo lovely.

 

[Pehlman17]

5. Random one you just really love. - Lalbrew Koln aka M54 Californian Lager. For a desert island with the only yeast available, I'd choose this one.

What's your experience been like with Lallemand Koln? I love Kolsch and have heard pretty mixed reviews on K-97 (powdery, tart, general weirdness), but I watched a YouTube video the other day of somebody brewing with Lallemand Koln and that thing seemed to drop pretty bright in the fermenter. Seems like something I'd likely give a shot before K-97, if not for impatience alone.

 

[Franktalk]

What's your experience been like with Lallemand Koln? I love Kolsch and have heard pretty mixed reviews on K-97 (powdery, tart, general weirdness), but I watched a YouTube video the other day of somebody brewing with Lallemand Koln and that thing seemed to drop pretty bright in the fermenter. Seems like something I'd likely give a shot before K-97, if not for impatience alone.

I've used Koln quite a bit, and I like it. It makes a nice kolsch, mostly clean with just a touch of fruitiness, apples and citrus. It isn't brilliantly clear, though. In fact, it can be hazy. It is definitely better than K-97 for the reasons you stated, and I think it's better than WLP 029, which can also be a bit hazy.

 

[Pehlman17]

...and I think it's better than WLP 029, which can also be a bit hazy.

WLP 029 has been my go-to Kolsch strain in prior batches and I always enjoyed it, so if you liked Koln even more, consider me intrigued. With a couple weeks cold in the bottle I rarely (if ever) had issues with 029 clearing up nicely.

 

[Protos]

What's your experience been like with Lallemand Koln?

I listed it as "my desert-island strain" because it's a universal yeast and can be used in a variety of styles. Actually any top-fermented style that doesn't demand a particular yeast character may be brewed with it, depending on the fermentation temperature. Lalbrew Koeln has pretty low character of its own, unlike other dry Koelsch yeasts, like K-97 (which is tart) and M54 (which is much more fruity). It's a pretty neutral yeast as far as dry Koelsch yeasts go. I've used it in my Koelsches, Altbiers, Kuitbiers, Graetzers, Grain Wines (Wheatwine, Ryewine, Oatwine), Fruit, Flower and Herbal Beers, Pseudo Lagers, Smoked Ales, Historical and Medieval European Beers and in other styles. I use it every time when I need an ale with a clean yeast profile or when I make an experimental brew or a historical recipe where the yeast is not specified - for those Lalbrew Koelsch is the default yeast, for which there's a solid historical ground. (Most of yeast strains in pre-Lager Continental Europe were probably related to what we now know as German Ale yeasts, and the sequencing of Kveik has also revealed its origin from the same branch). Also I prefer it in my American ales, although I brew them mostly with US-05 just for the authenticity (I don't brew American beers too often, I have to say).

 

[AlexKay]

I've just recently started using Koln, and love it. Better in every way than K97! I've also found that it's slow to clear, though after three or four weeks cold the beer is absolutely brilliant.

 

[Pehlman17]

I listed it as "my desert-island strain" because it's a universal yeast and can be used in a variety of styles. Actually any top-fermented style that doesn't demand a particular yeast character may be brewed with it, depending on the fermentation temperature.

Very cool. I'm definitely going to have to try it next. I've got a bock with 34/70 going right now, but once that's kegged I was hoping to get a Kolsch fired up soon for my wife's birthday late next month. It's her favorite style.

When I first had learned that North Coast Brewing Co. uses a German Ale strain (Altbier, I believe) to make Old Rasputin, my mind was blown. I have since heard of a few folks like yourself that use German ale yeasts as their house strain for all sorts of different styles.

 

[Protos]

It makes absolutely fantastic Koelsch.
As long as this yeast is very neutral when fermented cold and lets the malts shine through, you'll want to make your Koelsch of the very best available malts, preferably employ a decoction mash, lager it for at least a month (then it settles perfectly, being bit powdery in the beginning) and don't go too high on hops to avoid overshadowing the subtle malt flavours which this yeast conveys best than any other top-fermenting dry strain.

 

[tracer bullet]

I would just like to say - this thread is awesome. I've been a liquid yeast user for decades (aside from a few times using S-05) and it's nice to read about everyone's favorites so I have a starting point. Thanks to all that have replied to it!

 

[Miraculix]

I listed it as "my desert-island strain" because it's a universal yeast and can be used in a variety of styles. Actually any top-fermented style that doesn't demand a particular yeast character may be brewed with it, depending on the fermentation temperature. Lalbrew Koeln has pretty low character of its own, unlike other dry Koelsch yeasts, like K-97 (which is tart) and M54 (which is much more fruity). It's a pretty neutral yeast as far as dry Koelsch yeasts go. I've used it in my Koelsches, Altbiers, Kuitbiers, Graetzers, Grain Wines (Wheatwine, Ryewine, Oatwine), Fruit, Flower and Herbal Beers, Pseudo Lagers, Smoked Ales, Historical and Medieval European Beers and in other styles. I use it every time when I need an ale with a clean yeast profile or when I make an experimental brew or a historical recipe where the yeast is not specified - for those Lalbrew Koelsch is the default yeast, for which there's a solid historical ground. (Most of yeast strains in pre-Lager Continental Europe were probably related to what we now know as German Ale yeasts, and the sequencing of Kveik has also revealed its origin from the same branch). Also I prefer it in my American ales, although I brew them mostly with US-05 just for the authenticity (I don't brew American beers too often, I have to say).

What differentiates this one from the classic neutral ale yeasts like us05 and bry97?

 

[Pehlman17]

I would just like to say - this thread is awesome. I've been a liquid yeast user for decades (aside from a few times using S-05) and it's nice to read about everyone's favorites so I have a starting point. Thanks to all that have replied to it!

Good to hear! My brewing history is quite similar, using liquid yeast from the start for over a decade now. Jumping into dry yeasts and hearing peoples’ experiences (both the good and the bad) with different strains has definitely gotten me excited about brewing again.

 

[balrog]

What differentiates this one from the classic neutral ale yeasts like us05 and bry97?

US05 always **HAD** a history of throwing peach when fermented in lower 60s F, as well as clearing slowly.

However, given what has happened in the last few years with S04, being different than it used to be years ago (@dmtaylor and @Northern_Brewer may have much more knowledge on this) perhaps the same is true with US05?

 

[Protos]

What differentiates this one from the classic neutral ale yeasts like us05 and bry97?

I don't deem US-05 as a neutral yeast. To me, it's kind of tart (though less tart than K-97) and peachy.
BRY97 has essentially the same flavour profile as US-05, maybe a bit more tart and a bit less fruity. With neither of both I've ever achieved same clean grainy flavour coming through which I easily get with Lalbrew Köln. Fermented cold, it has no flavour of it's own. That's why I use Köln as a universal all-around yeast, while US05 and BRY097 only for American styles.

 

[Protos]

US05 always **HAD** a history of throwing peach when fermented in lower 60s F, as well as clearing slowly

From US05, I'm getting peach at medium and higher temperatures and increased tartness at cooler temps.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

From US05 ...

How long does fermentation run?

 

[Protos]

I keep (almost) all my beers in primary for 3 weeks. Visible signs of fermentation with US05 are over in 7-8 days. Clarification in about 15-18 days.

 

[brewbama]

1. Bry-97 American Ale
2. S-04 English Ale
3. BE-134 Belgian Ale (Trappist/Abbey styles specifically)
4. W34/70 All-purpose Lager
5. Verdant for NEIPA. Random one you just really love.

Despite what some say, IMO one 11 gram package of dried yeast is rarely recommended by the mfr’s guidelines.

I pitch as the fermenter is filling to mix it in well.

 

[Pehlman17]

I was just watching a video from @Bobby_M doing his 15th anniversary beer. He did a split batch, with half of it using S-04. From what I can tell he still got some weirdness from that strain compared to the liquid counterpart. I don’t know why but that’s the dry strain I’m still the most gun-shy of.

BYO recently had an interview with Mitch Steele (former Stone brewmaster, now of New Realm) and he talked about using S-04 for his brew pub’s take on Fuller’s London Porter. I also read a Brulosphy article recently where they compared S-04 to Imperial A09 Pub, and the results were not significant.

It makes me wonder how much of our perception of certain strains is dependent upon the characteristics we’ve heard of or been told we’ll find in them. But on the other hand I wonder if certain dry yeasts still haven’t actually caught up to the liquid cultures. I know I’m just going to have to try them all and see what I think.

Other than 34/70 and maybe S-189, I feel like most people seem to have better experiences with the Lallemand strains over Fermentis. “US-05 is peachy, S-04 tastes like sourdough, K-97 is a murky mess…” does this track or are those just opinions that might just be based off of old stereotypes?

 

[Protos]

Other than 34/70 and maybe S-189, I feel like most people seem to have better experiences with the Lallemand strains over Fermentis. “US-05 is peachy, S-04 tastes like sourdough, K-97 is a murky mess…” does this track or are those just opinions that might just be based off of old stereotypes?

It depends. I can't compare liquid to dry because I have no easy access to the liquid yeasts and use them very rarely but I hope I've amassed some useful experience with most of the dry strains from Fermentis, Lallemand, Mangrove Jack's and Gozdawa. It's not as simple as "Lallemand is better and Fermentis is worse than MJ". Each style category has its winners and loosers indepentently of the brand.
I won't present the full comparative analysis of all dry yeasts here, I'll take just the short style list from the original post.
Of course, I'm talking exclusively about my personal tastes. Others' opinions may and should differ.

1. American Ale - Fermentis US-05 wins hands down. Being similar, Lalbrew BRY-97 has muddled flavour and MJ M44 makes too tart and thin beer.
2. English Ale - Lalbrew wins with Verdant IPA. Forget the "IPA" advertising gimmick, it's a classic traditional London yeast, a rare and precious top-cropping strain among the dry stock. MJ M42 Strong is the next, and Fermentis S-04 is a joke throwing loads of Lactic acid whatever I do to avoid it.
3. Belgian Ale - MJ wins with its M41, a flavourful and very versatile yeast, good both for Monastic brews and for Saisons. MJ 47 Abbey is superior to Lalbrew Abbey (more fruit, less acid), and among the proper Saison yeast there's a close tie between MJ M29 and Fermentis BE-134, which are very different but same good, while Lalbrew Belle Saison is a sure looser here.
4. All-purpose Lager - Lalbrew Diamond is three heads above Fermentis W34/70, and MJ M76 Bavarian is a close follower to Diamond. Fermentis S-23 is another underappreciaded diamond in the ruff, but it's unpopular because few seem to know where and how to use it correctly.
5. Random one you just really love - let's choose German Ale we've discussed earlier. Lalbrew Koeln is the best, MJ M54 is second to it (more pear esters), Fermentis K-97 is the last (too tart).

This list might be continued with dozens of other styles and brands. I just wanted to show that each manufacturer (or blender, in the case of MJ) has its winners in different categories. I understand however that lists like this are essentially useless. To set your own opinions and preferences, you got no other way than to test and taste each yeast yourself, not just in a single brew preferably. That's what I'm trying to do myself. Boy, on this way I have to drink a lot of beers I don't care for. But all that is for science, what can I do

 

[duncan_disorderly]

It depends. I can't compare liquid to dry because I have no easy access to the liquid yeasts and use them very rarely but I hope I've amassed some useful experience with most of the dry strains from Fermentis, Lallemand, Mangrove Jack's and Gozdawa. It's not as simple as "Lallemand is better and Fermentis is worse than MJ". Each style category has its winners and loosers indepentently of the brand.
I won't present the full comparative analysis of all dry yeasts here, I'll take just the short style list from the original post.
Of course, I'm talking exclusively about my personal tastes. Others' opinions may and should differ.

1. American Ale - Fermentis US-05 wins hands down. Being similar, Lalbrew BRY-97 has muddled flavour and MJ M44 makes too tart and thin beer.
2. English Ale - Lalbrew wins with Verdant IPA. Forget the "IPA" advertising gimmick, it's a classic traditional London yeast, a rare and precious top-cropping strain among the dry stock. MJ M42 Strong is the next, and Fermentis S-04 is a joke throwing loads of Lactic acid whatever I do to avoid it.
3. Belgian Ale - MJ wins with its M41, a flavourful and very versatile yeast, good both for Monastic brews and for Saisons. MJ 47 Abbey is superior to Lalbrew Abbey (more fruit, less acid), and among the proper Saison yeast there's a close tie between MJ M29 and Fermentis BE-134, which are very different but same good, while Lalbrew Belle Saison is a sure looser here.
4. All-purpose Lager - Lalbrew Diamond is three heads above Fermentis W34/70, and MJ M76 Bavarian is a close follower to Diamond. Fermentis S-23 is another underappreciaded diamond in the ruff, but it's unpopular because few seem to know where and how to use it correctly.
5. Random one you just really love - let's choose German Ale we've discussed earlier. Lalbrew Koeln is the best, MJ M54 is second to it (more pear esters), Fermentis K-97 is the last (too tart).

This list might be continued with dozens of other styles and brands. I just wanted to show that each manufacturer (or blender, in the case of MJ) has its winners in different categories. I understand however that lists like this are essentially useless. To set your own opinions and preferences, you got no other way than to test and taste each yeast yourself, not just in a single brew preferably. That's what I'm trying to do myself. Boy, on this way I have to drink a lot of beers I don't care for. But all that is for science, what can I do

I agree with a lot of that although Verdant does not taste English despite its ancestry. Lallemand needs to go again and find a truer version of the 1318 strain to process. You can't make a bitter with Verdant that tastes English. It's a yeast I like though, for certain beers. I think the same applies to the Vermont strain(s), English origin but altered. I suspect Lallemand were targeting a NEIPA strain rather than a true English strain.

Like you say, we have to try everything ourselves and set our own preferences.

 

[SwissRico]

Even though I've been brewing off and on for about a decade now, I'm one of those guys that started with liquid yeast from the start. And on top of that, I've been pretty much an exclusively White Labs user (for no particular reason I guess). I've been considering venturing into dry yeasts and was wondering what those of you with a lot of experience with dry would recommend. I know there are fewer options when it comes to dry, but that's actually what I find appealing about them. I think we could all do with fewer options to choose from sometimes. (I'm generally a classic styles sort of brewer for what it's worth.)

What would be your go-to for these styles/categories?
1. American Ale
2. English Ale
3. Belgian Ale (Trappist/Abbey styles specifically)
4. All-purpose Lager
5. Random one you just really love.

And if you're willing to share your general process or tips you've found helpful that would be great too!

Cheers!

I have switched almost entirely to dry yeast and never rehydrate (they get sprinkled into the fermenter during transfer and aerated). I've had great results with the following:

1. BRY-97, US-05
2. Mangrove Jack's Empire Ale M15
3. SafAle BE-134 and LalBrew Farmhouse
4. Mangrove Jack's Bavarian M76
5. Verdant IPA

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

“US-05 is peachy, S-04 tastes like sourdough, K-97 is a murky mess…” does this track ...

With taste (peachy, sourdough), it's likely to be personal: tasting capability (super tasters); training (Cicerone , BJCP, ...); enjoying a beverage vs evaluating a beverage.

A number of years ago (IIRC, 2017-2018), there was discussion on dry yeast flavors in AHA forums. There were some interesting observations from people who re-pitched dry yeast. Given that those sachets were packaged in the 2015-2016 time frame, it would be interesting to see a fresh set of observations when using a 1st pitch and re-pitched yeast for the same recipe.

... or are those just opinions that might just be based off of old stereotypes?

Perhaps old stereotypes and incomplete information. Yeast related off flavor stories rarely come with recipes and process notes.

 

[Protos]

it would be interesting to see a fresh set of observations when using a 1st pitch and re-pitched yeast for the same recipe.

Did that many times with many yeasts. Different dry strains behave differently when repitched. Somewhere on this board I shared my experiences on this subject. Some just acquire a bit more estery profile, some change significantly, some almost stay the same, and with some you can't predict whether they would change or not. My general takeaway was that there were actually not so much dry yeasts suitable for harvesting and repitching. Because many of them are probably blends, and those behave unpredictably: a particular strain from the multi-strain blend may gain the lead in one batch and give way to another in a consequtive one.