The OFFICIAL Low Oxygen Brewing Thread, AKA lodo, lowdo, LOB

[passedpawn]

It's not polyphenols we're trying to retain. Again, your (lack of) knowledge on the subject shows. If you'd like to learn more then feel free to visit lowoxygenbrewing.com to become acquainted with the goal, and then you can start devising your own methodology of achieving such goals.

If this is the "official" thread on HBT, it might be proper to state your goals and any other information here instead of always redirecting elsewhere. I'm sure there's a ton of info at that other site, and I don't mind the links, but if you're interested in furthering this topic, might be useful to post your goal here.

 

[Big Monk]

If this is the "official" thread on HBT, it might be proper to state your goals and any other information here instead of always redirecting elsewhere. I'm sure there's a ton of info at that other site, and I don't mind the links, but if you're interested in furthering this topic, might be useful to post your goal here.

The goal is for people who have questions to ask them here. A living FAQ/Q&A.

 

[MSK_Chess]

Since attempting LODO my brewhouse efficiency has increased. Why this should be the case I cannot say. Perhaps its because I now recirculate under the surface and introduce my sparging water directly under the surface too. I used to get about 70% now I am easily 75-80's almost the same as those guys that do a full volume BIAB. Perhaps its due to the Hochkurz mash schedule? I dunno, but its happened. My last beer was intended to be 1050, it ended up 1056! because of a too low setting on efficiency in my software inherited from previous no LODO batches.

 

[wobdee]

Saniclean = Starsan without the foam.

 

[stpug]

It's not polyphenols we're trying to retain. Again, your (lack of) knowledge on the subject shows. If you'd like to learn more then feel free to visit lowoxygenbrewing.com to become acquainted with the goal, and then you can start devising your own methodology of achieving such goals.

If this is the "official" thread on HBT, it might be proper to state your goals and any other information here instead of always redirecting elsewhere. I'm sure there's a ton of info at that other site, and I don't mind the links, but if you're interested in furthering this topic, might be useful to post your goal here.

@passedpawn You may have interpreted my post differently than intended. The "goal(s)" I refer to are oxygen mitigation to a low level throughout the entire brewing process - i.e. low oxygen brewing. The methodology is simply how you achieve those low levels. It's not written in stone, there are many ways, and many people have to make adjustments this way or that for their systems based on desires/abilities/accessibility/constraints/etc. It's important to have an understanding of the kinds of oxidative interactions that take place during the mash, and how quickly/slowly they happen to have a well informed opinion and be able to formulate a process that aims to mitigate that ingress.

As polyphenol REDUCTION is key to long term stability of beer, it's clear that @newuser12345 (who parades as an authority on the subject) doesn't know the subject they're talking about, and is instead simply here to berate other members and cause fear/uncertainty/doubt (FUD); take the focus away from furthering the subject at hand; or show enough intimidation so as to discourage an open discussion from users who may just be starting out or asking questions. Thus, aside from my postings to correct mis-information proliferated by this noobuser, I offer them nothing more than a simple suggestion to learn more about the topic of which they speak. You and I have already had words on this subject and I know where you stand. So it's up to regular forum members who care enough to stand up and aid in the moderation of this thread.

The "goal" of this thread, which I was not referring to, is as RPIScotty stated a couple posts back - A living FAQ/Q&A.

This is the first time I provide a link to anywhere else in this thread so it's a bit of a stretch to suggest I'm "always redirecting elsewhere". Regardless, there is too much information housed at lowoxygenbrewing.com (that's the second time) to disseminate here. If you desire a more thorough understanding of the science of brewing and oxidative interactions that take place, and why oxygen mitigation to a very low level throughout the entire process is important, then you'll either need to scour the interwebs and gather the resources yourself and read, or take the easy way and find them at lowoxygenbrewing.com (third time) in the LOB References section. The best part is that they are published scientific examinations of brewing processes that are largely related to oxygen throughout the brewing process. Be warned though, there are no "reply" buttons to push on those academic papers

....and remember, discourse, even ill-informed, is encouraged here at HBT.

 

[passedpawn]

Thanks for that. I'm interested in the subject and would like to see as much info here (HBT) as possible, but I understand that the vetted papers are out there for a deeper read on the subject.

 

[newuser12345]

just for clarities sake, which homebrewers here that purport to brew using low oxygen methods haveo2 measuring equipment?

 

[enkamania]

yup that would work. Don't you get like stainless steel hop baskets that people can use to dry hop in the Keg? Place one of them in and purge until you are ready to do a completely closed transfer should work, surely?

I use the http://www.clearbeerdraughtsystem.com/, been able to throw in three ounces without clogging or bits in the beer

 

[Die_Beerery]

just for clarities sake, which homebrewers here that purport to brew using low oxygen methods haveo2 measuring equipment?

I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

http://www.myronl.com/PDF/data_sheets/pt5ds.pdf


Anyone have experience with this Dissolved O2 meter?

 

[Bilsch]

just for clarities sake, which homebrewers here that purport to brew using low oxygen methods haveo2 measuring equipment?

A lot of us do although it's not strictly necessary to have one and still do a good job of it.

 

[newuser12345]

I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

ask and ye shall receive

https://imgur.com/a/y3rfd

 

[thekraken]

ask and ye shall receive

https://imgur.com/a/y3rfd

If you're going to go down this road you might want to use a photo of your equipment in hand, not a photo pulled off the internet.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...hEYGGmQHYyLn4BA&start=0&sa=N&biw=1920&bih=924

 

[newuser12345]

A lot of us do although it's not strictly necessary to have one and still do a good job of it.

you feel the same way about hydrometers and thermometers I suppose?

 

[newuser12345]

If you're going to go down this road you might want to use a photo of your equipment in hand, not a photo pulled off the internet.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...hEYGGmQHYyLn4BA&start=0&sa=N&biw=1920&bih=924

at work my man, don't keep it on hand 24/7

 

[thekraken]

at work my man, don't keep it on hand 24/7

Fair enough, just sayin.

 

[Die_Beerery]

If you're going to go down this road you might want to use a photo of your equipment in hand, not a photo pulled off the internet.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...hEYGGmQHYyLn4BA&start=0&sa=N&biw=1920&bih=924

:smack:

 

[ParanoidAndroid]

Has there been any definitive calculation (or assumption) about the percentage reduction of roast malts given that they come through way more with LODO? Even though I am not 100% LODO, regular chocolate malt is overpowering. Thinking about just cutting back 50% and adding some deshusked carafe to make up for color.

 

[Big Monk]

Has there been any definitive calculation (or assumption) about the percentage reduction of roast malts given that they come through way more with LODO? Even though I am not 100% LODO, regular chocolate malt is overpowering. Thinking about just cutting back 50% and adding some deshusked carafe to make up for color.

You could Sinamar as well as opposed to Carafa.

 

[Die_Beerery]

Yea, I can easily pick up enough roast from sinamar alone. Even at 2% in a schwarzbier it’s prominent.

 

[mabrungard]

Has there been any definitive calculation (or assumption) about the percentage reduction of roast malts given that they come through way more with LODO? Even though I am not 100% LODO, regular chocolate malt is overpowering. Thinking about just cutting back 50% and adding some deshusked carafe to make up for color.

I think I've perceived this, but I'm not sure its a product of the roast itself. Since the LODO approach at the homebrew level often employs metabisulfite, the sulfate content of the water is therefore increased to some degree. Roast and sulfate can create drying effect in your beer and their combination may be more than you intend or prefer. Be sure to cut back any other sulfate additions in the brewing water to avoid this aspect.

 

[Die_Beerery]

I think I've perceived this, but I'm not sure its a product of the roast itself. Since the LODO approach at the homebrew level often employs metabisulfite, the sulfate content of the water is therefore increased to some degree. Roast and sulfate can create drying effect in your beer and their combination may be more than you intend or prefer. Be sure to cut back any other sulfate additions in the brewing water to avoid this aspect.

I don't use any sulfites in my process anymore, and my roast malts are possibly more potent ( if not the same) then they were with sulfites. I also do not use any sulfates in my brewing water. Just another data point.

 

[afro_lou]

Subbing for all the great info!

 

[Murphys_Law]

I don't use any sulfites in my process anymore, and my roast malts are possibly more potent ( if not the same) then they were with sulfites. I also do not use any sulfates in my brewing water. Just another data point.

So you stopped using metabisulfite altogether? Doesn't the web site still talk about adding it to the mash?

 

[Big Monk]

So you stopped using metabisulfite altogether? Doesn't the web site still talk about adding it to the mash?

It takes a considerable amount of streamlining and modification in your system to be free of sulfites. We dont recommend that for people starting out. Hence the 20-30 ppm baseline dose.

 

[Die_Beerery]

So you stopped using metabisulfite altogether? Doesn't the web site still talk about adding it to the mash?

Yes, and Yes. What I do is certainly not for the folks just wanting to dabble in Low oxygen. Our site is built around trying to make it as easy as possible and meta is certainly that.

I use active sauergut (great o2 reduction potential) and gas my grist while milling with n2. Then I add my grist into the Tun, and purge all my lines, vessels and grist again with n2. I then mash under a gasketed cap, with a layer of n2. Everything I do is either in a purged n2 vessel or under a cap. So I don't need to add sulfites anymore.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Would Brewtan B or Antioxin SBT be accepted under Reinheitsgebot?

 

[Die_Beerery]

Would Brewtan B or Antioxin SBT be accepted under Reinheitsgebot?

Thats a great question... both substances would be gone after the boil, so how would anybody know? They already do some interesting stuff to bend those rules. I will say no, but follow that up with.. who would know.

 

[Murphys_Law]

Yes, and Yes. What I do is certainly not for the folks just wanting to dabble in Low oxygen. Our site is built around trying to make it as easy as possible and meta is certainly that.

I use active sauergut (great o2 reduction potential) and gas my grist while milling with n2. Then I add my grist into the Tun, and purge all my lines, vessels and grist again with n2. I then mash under a gasketed cap, with a layer of n2. Everything I do is either in a purged n2 vessel or under a cap. So I don't need to add sulfites anymore.

AH! I think I'll skip all that and try some sodium metabisulfite for now!

According to your spreadsheet I need to dose around .68g (don't have the exact # in front of me). Do I add this before or after dough-in? I also adjusted my other salts to account for the change in water chemistry (sulfate, ph, etc).

I ordered some BtB from my local (use a Jaded Hydra and not in a position to replace it now) but not sure if it will be here in time for the next brew day so for my hot side I am going to pre-boil, use the above, and add a mash cap. Any other advice?

I have been doing OK on the cold side (I think) with all closed transfers.

 

[homoeccentricus]

Thats a great question... both substances would be gone after the boil, so how would anybody know? They already do some interesting stuff to bend those rules. I will say no, but follow that up with.. who would know.

You can only add things that you can remove afterwards such as pvpp.