First Experience in LoDO BIAB

[PlinyTheMiddleAged]

Definitely was not oxidation during kegging, but it was definitely oxidized - I changed none of my cold side practices on this batch. After fermentation, I transfer from my conical to my keg by pushing out of the conical with a few psi of CO2. The beer goes into the keg through the beer out post. The keg is purged with CO2 before filling - filled with StarSan made with pre-boiled water to drive out oxygen. I also tip the keg while filling with StarSan to get rid of the bubble that exists under the corny lid. Then I empty the keg with CO2 and keep it sealed. I also purge the lines I use for transfers so there's no air in the lines.

I've been doing the above for a few years but I still had oxidation problems. It got better when I started that. Prior to tight cold side practices, beer went from good going into the keg to oxidized two weeks later when it was carbed. Cold side improvements gave me a few weeks to enjoy my IPA. Adding the hot side changes gives me a few months (pretty much until the keg was empty).

PlinyTheMiddleAged

 

[Carlscan26]

There should be no oxygen in the beer post fermentation. The yeast will "eat" it all up

 

[PlinyTheMiddleAged]

Agreed. The damage must have happened pre-fermentation; on the hot side. That's why addressing oxidation on the hot side improved the shelf-life of the beer.

 

[stpug]

I'm sorry if this has already been asked/answered. So how are you accounting for the sodium metabisulfite in your water profile? Has anyone created a spreadsheet for it?

Eyes mistaken ....

It has been put back into circulation. Grab it while the grabin's good. Over at ******************** in the advanced forum. It's the full deal. Thanks Derek and Bryan!

 

[thekraken]

Eyes mistaken ....

It has been put back into circulation. Grab it while the grabin's good. Over at ******************** in the advanced forum. It's the full deal. Thanks Derek and Bryan!

Do you have a link? Are you talking about this Quick Reference http://www.********************/uncategorized/low-oxygen-quick-reference-spreadsheet/

The "Low oxygen brewing spreadsheet" referenced in the methods section is still 404. Is the quick reference the same thing?

 

[stpug]

Do you have a link? Are you talking about this Quick Reference http://www.********************/uncategorized/low-oxygen-quick-reference-spreadsheet/

The "Low oxygen brewing spreadsheet" referenced in the methods section is still 404. Is the quick reference the same thing?

Derek (Big Monk) posted a link to the spreadsheet over on their forum. I think the forum requires registration but it's painless and free to join, AND you get the benefit of conversing with other low oxygen brewers in a space that's conducive and dedicated to the process. This may sound stupid, but while I could simply post a link to the spreadsheet here, 1) I feel it's not my place to do so because it was not my time/effort that was used for it's development, and 2) I feel as though it takes away from the potential interactions/conversations that can be had over there. I would encourage you to register for the forum over there, if for no other reason than to download the spreadsheet, but more importantly to be able to ask and field questions (and converse) about this relatively new process that's still morphing into a viable way of producing highly stable beer with new flavor/aroma characters often dismissed (or unattainable) at the homebrew level. Despite how the "LODO people" may have presented-and-alienated themselves a year ago, that characterization is not present over there - it's quite a friendly bunch. I'd suggest to try it out; download the spreadsheet; and no need to visit again if you see no use for it.

No, the quick reference is not the full spreadsheet. The link is only present on the forum ATM, but maybe it'll be posted to a blog post in the near future if you decide to not check the forum first.

 

[thekraken]

Thanks, stpug. I'll check em out.

 

[beernutz]

I tried my first BIAB and also my first LODO batch ast weekend but ran into a few hiccups. I was brewing a cream ale so I thought that would be a good test of LODO to see if wort quality was improved for this light style.

I used my HLT to preboil 13 gallons of water for 10 minutes for a 10 gallon batch but even running a jet burner and a heatstick that process took 1.5 hours so my patience was greatly tested. At least it only took a few minutes to cool the water down to strike of 155, or so I thought.

Minerals including campden were added to the water and I then pumped 12.5 gallons into the keggle I was using as a BIAB vessel underletting the grain (conditioned before milling) so as to minimize oxidation. No big issues here as pH was as comforting 5.37 except that the water that appeared to be 155 according to my HLT thermometer before pumping to the keggle somehow increased to 158 AFTER it was mixed with the grain in the keggle. Zoinks, I somehow have defied thermodynamics.

Since I had planned on a 149 mash temp this was a problem so I had to add ice and recirculate to get quickly down to my planned mash temp. I guess the temp probe on my HLT needs recalibrating or replacing.

Everything else went pretty smoothly except that I didn't feel like I was able to squeeze that hot biab bag containing 20 lbs of grain sufficiently to extract much more liquid. Still I ended up with just under the expected preboil volume of 11.5 gallons and after a 60 minute boil just less than 10 gallons went into the fermenter and I hit my OG within .001. TBH, I could not tell if the wort was appreciably different than previous non-LODO batches of this same simple recipe but I don't have a DO meter so I am just guessing that my LODO procedures actually resulted in LODO wort.

My biggest problem was that I had my Wilser bag supported with a ladder and while lowering the full bag to the ground it caught on something on the ladder and put a 1" tear in it. Fudge. I will probably try to just sew it up as I definitely want to try a non-LODO BIAB to see if I can cut down on the 6 hour brewday I experienced this time.

Too long to read version: First LODO BIAB took very long time to preboil water, plus I tore my Wilser bag when lowering it and I extended my brew day by about an hour but otherwise the experience was successful. Wort is still in fermenter so jury is out on the final product.

 

[schematix]

the water that appeared to be 155 according to my HLT thermometer before pumping to the keggle somehow increased to 158 AFTER it was mixed with the grain in the keggle. Zoinks, I somehow have defied thermodynamics.

Nope... either your thermometer was off, or more likely, you had temp stratification. It can easily be 10 degrees different from top to bottom in a vessel that size (as a side note this why your water heater takes hot water from the top and adds cold water to the bottom). When i'm cooling the strike water i will give it a few stirs when i'm getting close to the target temp, making sure to lift from the bottom to the top to ensure vertical mixing.

Also, i over chill by 3-4 degrees, then i strike through my RIMS with the temp set at the desired strike temp. Dead nuts perfect every single time.

Honestly, I could not tell if the wort was appreciably different than previous non-LODO batches but I don't have a DO meter so I am just guessing that my LODO procedures actually resulted in LODO wort.

Next time taste the wort. It should taste very different from standard wort. If you succeeded up to that point it'll have a distinct grainy flavor and a clean sweetness with no bitterness. The flavor difference is so obvious you'll know it right away. If you don't detect a difference, then you've got work to do tightening things up.

 

[Piruz]

I have one question, which is related to this topic, but opposite of low oxygenation.

What effects would it have to beer, if you aerate your wort over 80F (85-90F), and then let it cool to 70F? I mean by this, that you are in a hurry, u dont own IC, so u do ice bath, which takes forever to cool to 70F, you pour your wort to fermenting bucket at 85F (aeration) and then cool it faster with new ice bath to 70F, aerate more and pitch yeast?

1. Never ever do something like this, or 2. Test it?

 

[stpug]

I have one question, which is related to this topic, but opposite of low oxygenation.

What effects would it have to beer, if you aerate your wort over 80F (85-90F), and then let it cool to 70F? I mean by this, that you are in a hurry, u dont own IC, so u do ice bath, which takes forever to cool to 70F, you pour your wort to fermenting bucket at 85F (aeration) and then cool it faster with new ice bath to 70F, aerate more and pitch yeast?

1. Never ever do something like this, or 2. Test it?

Ignoring any potential benefits from low oxygen brewing, what you propose should make an indistinguishable difference from standard brewing practices. In other words, without having taken care to retain volatile malt/hop compounds throughout the entire brewing process then this type of aeration should not negatively affect the end product.

On the other hand, if effort had been made to retain those highly volatile compounds then what you propose would severely affect your efforts and finished product.

At least that's my perspective, ymmv.

 

[Blackdirt_cowboy]

I'm new to all of this, brewing, LODO, everything. In another thread I mentioned that I'm mainly interested in brewing German beers, and someone responded by saying to look into LODO. So that's what I'm doing. Can someone answer some basic questions for me? I've seen HSA referenced throughout this thread. What is that and what about it should concern me? Also, could someone provide me a link to the PDF that's being talked about ad nauseum? I'm not trying to start a debate or an arguement, I'm genuinely looking for information to determine if LODO is right for me. Oh, and one last thing, I have a copper immersion chiller. Why is stainless thought to be superior to the copper.

 

[TexasWine]

I'm new to all of this, brewing, LODO, everything. In another thread I mentioned that I'm mainly interested in brewing German beers, and someone responded by saying to look into LODO. So that's what I'm doing. Can someone answer some basic questions for me? I've seen HSA referenced throughout this thread. What is that and what about it should concern me? Also, could someone provide me a link to the PDF that's being talked about ad nauseum? I'm not trying to start a debate or an arguement, I'm genuinely looking for information to determine if LODO is right for me. Oh, and one last thing, I have a copper immersion chiller. Why is stainless thought to be superior to the copper.

I believe all your questions can be answered with a quick search of

http://www.********************

 

[h22lude]

I may try some of the processes in here. I probably won't go all the way with it (i.e. probably won't add co2 to grains). I recirculate my wort, is this something that shouldn't be done with lodo? Obviously having the recirculation arm splashing wort would be bad but if it was under the wort level, I'd think no O2 would be introduced.

 

[stpug]

I may try some of the processes in here. I probably won't go all the way with it (i.e. probably won't add co2 to grains). I recirculate my wort, is this something that shouldn't be done with lodo? Obviously having the recirculation arm splashing wort would be bad but if it was under the wort level, I'd think no O2 would be introduced.

Recirc is excellent with low oxygen brewing as it avoids the necessity to manually stir. Keep the output end under the wort surface and keep the mash capped - super easy. As far as capping the mash goes, you can start with foil or plastic wrap to get a feel for it (cheap and easy).

 

[stpug]

I'm new to all of this, brewing, LODO, everything. In another thread I mentioned that I'm mainly interested in brewing German beers, and someone responded by saying to look into LODO. So that's what I'm doing. Can someone answer some basic questions for me? I've seen HSA referenced throughout this thread. What is that and what about it should concern me? Also, could someone provide me a link to the PDF that's being talked about ad nauseum? I'm not trying to start a debate or an arguement, I'm genuinely looking for information to determine if LODO is right for me. Oh, and one last thing, I have a copper immersion chiller. Why is stainless thought to be superior to the copper.

I believe all your questions can be answered with a quick search of

http://www.********************

I would urge you to ignore the PDF paper for numerous reasons, the most important being that some recommendations in there about sulfite dosing levels have changed significantly, as well as the general tone of the paper having a bit of condescension weaved in there. The site TexasWine recommends, I would also highly recommend as your primary source for getting started. The PDF paper was not produced as part of the thought process that is ********************

 

[The_Glue]

Now that i see that all of the LODO masters are in this thread i have to ask something:

- Should i still try LODO methods with old premilled grains? Or did i already oxidized them so it would be useless to limit oxygen exposure? (currently they are like 3 months old)

- Can hot-side LODO methods help preserving the hop character in hoppy beers?

 

[stpug]

Now that i see that all of the LODO masters are in this thread i have to ask something:

- Should i still try LODO methods with old premilled grains? Or did i already oxidized them so it would be useless to limit oxygen exposure? (currently they are like 3 months old)

- Can hot-side LODO methods help preserving the hop character in hoppy beers?

Ideally, milling just before dough-in will yield best results. How much effect 3 months of room temp will have on oxygen-exposed milled grains is unknown to me, however the benefit is not in your favor.

Absolutely on preserving hot side hoppiness. I frequently wonder why I'm dry hopping my IPAs when racking to kegs because there's so much hop character remaining in the beer - I end up doing it anyway because, well, it's an IPA and what's an IPA without dry hops

 

[Bilsch]

What effects would it have to beer, if you aerate your wort over 80F (85-90F), and then let it cool to 70F? I mean by this, that you are in a hurry, u dont own IC, so u do ice bath, which takes forever to cool to 70F, you pour your wort to fermenting bucket at 85F (aeration) and then cool it faster with new ice bath to 70F, aerate more and pitch yeast?

Generally the higher the temperature the faster oxygen does it's damage to the delicate fresh malt flavors. Best low oxygen results will come from chilling as fast as possible to ferment temperature and get the yeast in there and working.

 

[Tommydee]

Ok, so I had a Helles in Germany a few weeks ago, and it was so darn good, and better than the one I made, that I'm probably going to try LODO in a few weeks.

Is there a consensus for BIAB on milling? Precondition and mill fine as usual into bag,then lower in? My LHBS has a great BIAB grind and 20 minutes from home, so I'm thinking I'll just purge a 5 gallon bucket lined with my wilserbag with CO2, and have them mill into it. Or can I just have them mill per normal and mash in 30 minutes later? How much does it matter?

Going to use dextrose/yeast on my strike water. And brewtan B with my copper chiller.

 

[TexasWine]

With BIAB, the timing of milling is going to be a minor concern. Doughing in with minimal uptake is the hard part.

Read through this thread to get some pointers.

http://********************/forum/viewtopic.php?t=312

 

[Veets]

Sorry if reviving this thread isn't the right thing to do, but I too have a question or two following my first LODO batch. The crux of it is how to know whether the sweet malt taste I'm getting with my pale ale is unfermentable sugars or the benefit from LODO? I'm relatively new to all-grain, and I skipped over doing the mini-mash test. So those posts talking about how the LODO wort tastes distinctly different don't have much meaning to me. What I do know, though, is that this beer has a taste note that's very much like how the wort smelled before boiling, fermenting, etc. It's really, really obviously there. So much so that it makes me wonder whether I did something else wrong, or if I hit the jackpot on the first try. OG 1.054, FG 1.016. Mashed a mostly two-row grain bill at 152F for one hour. Thanks for any insights

 

[Die_Beerery]

That would be it.

 

[Veets]

Wow, cool. Then much credit is owed to you all for the good explanations here and at the low oxygen brewing site. Can't wait to try brewing a Helles in the future. And tasting the Tripel that's in the fermenter now.

 

[Die_Beerery]

Wow, cool. Then much credit is owed to you all for the good explanations here and at the low oxygen brewing site. Can't wait to try brewing a Helles in the future. And tasting the Tripel that's in the fermenter now.

Just make sure you don’t mention it outside this subforum. No one will believe you and say it’s confirmation bias. [emoji6]

Cheers and thanks.

 

[Big Monk]

Wow, cool. Then much credit is owed to you all for the good explanations here and at the low oxygen brewing site. Can't wait to try brewing a Helles in the future. And tasting the Tripel that's in the fermenter now.

A Tripel you say! That’s my kind of beer!

 

[Veets]

A Tripel you say! That’s my kind of beer!

I'm also working on a bottle filler gun...