jwalk4
Well-Known Member
A few of the low oxygen brewing people have it and use it, but you cant buy it from retail. You need a specific permit to purchase, meaning its really for commercial use omly for some reason.
Has anyone among us tried "Antioxin SB", which is an antioxidant made specifically for beer? Is it just another name for "Brewtan B"?
Has anyone among us tried "Antioxin SB", which is an antioxidant made specifically for beer? Is it just another name for "Brewtan B"?
Will SBT ever be made available to the public? Why the need for a Federal Brewers license?
SB is different than SBT, where the 'T' equates to the 'tannins' (i.e. gallotannins, BrewtanB, etc). Many low oxygen brewers have used the SBT formulation, and a few may have also used the SB in testing.
In regards to SBT: Many folks have used either the preformulated Antioxin SBT or the DIY SBT/trifecta (the DIY is easy to make and should amount to the same "changes" in the brewery, and the components [Metabisulfites, ascorbic acid, gallotannins] are readily available (Brewtan B is now being offered to homebrew shops in the USA via brewcraftUSA). TBH, once you get a system dialed in to minimize oxygen ingress in the brewing process, you are better served with having the three components (S/B/T) as separate additions since you are able to minimize the sulfite addition while maintaining differing levels of ascorbic and gallotannins.
Just to be clear, the 'T' in SBT is for tannins (or gallotannins) which would be the equivalent to Brewtan B. Therefore, Brewtan B is in SBT, but SBT contains more than just Brewtan B.
Will SBT ever be made available to the public? Why the need for a Federal Brewers license?
Assembling from the constituent parts is probably a better route anyway. Then You have control over the gallotannin and AA
I had the pleasure of drinking some canned beers from Die Beerery a few months ago and they were G-L-O-R-I-O-U-S!
I keep looking for that brand but they aren't selling it out west yet.
Little bit of a problem. BRewing my first LODO batch and I forgot to account for the increased height of my false bottom so my chiller isn't working at 100% since some of it is out of the wort. It is stuck at 75°F right now. What is my best option? My only thought is to transfer to my carboy and let it chill in the fridge which is obviously not the best for LODO.
Brewing a pilsner. Trying to get down to 48°F.
Pump ice water if you can.
I was just wondering how did Die Beerery get those beers canned?
What would the concern be? The sulfites arent going to make it to he finished beer in sulfite form (they go to Na and SO4) and the Brewtan B will (should be at least if dosed correctly for you system) bound up and whirlpooled out.
I *finally* got a chance to brew the pale ale incorporating the low oxygen methods. Start with RO that has a TDS of 4, preboil, chill to strike temps, add minerals and sodium metabisulfite targeting 20ppm. 'Underlet' the mash via slowly lowering the basket into the hot liquor, carefully stir to ensure no doughballs. Set recirculation arm so it's below the mash surface and recirculate for the whole mash, including mashout.
Aside from the pre-boiling/chilling/Na-Meta, this is my standard routine. I've brewed this pale ale numerous times. Incorporating the LoDo stuff, I hit a pre-boil gravity of 1.039. My usual run of this stuff clocks right in at 1.043, every time. The volumes are right on the money, too. My normal mash efficiency is right on 90% with a 1.050 range beer. This one clocked in at 84%.
Is this efficiency hit normal with the low oxygen process? The milling is the same as it always is; it's my own 3 roller mill. The adjustments are all correct on it. The mash PH clocked in at 5.40 when I'm usually in the 5.42 range which I attributed to the metabisulfite/measurement 'noise'. I'm pretty thorough with my process and I'm reasonably certain that it's nothing different aside from the LoDo addition.
Nope, I've been 'underletting' via slowly lowering the grain basket in for a long while now. Same thing with stirring; I just made extra sure not to splash but there weren't any doughballs when I was done.
I have contacted Wyeast regarding Brewtan B and they will only sell it to registered breweries. They have refused to sell it to homebrew stores on any grounds. I have a few friends that have breweries and I am going to try to buy some from them. The minimum quantity is 1# (= $ 66) Might you be able to drum up some interests from others so we could split a 1# quantity? I am looking to split it into (8) 2 oz packets or possibly (10) 1.5 oz packets.
Cheers
Bob
I *finally* got a chance to brew the pale ale incorporating the low oxygen methods. Start with RO that has a TDS of 4, preboil, chill to strike temps, add minerals and sodium metabisulfite targeting 20ppm. 'Underlet' the mash via slowly lowering the basket into the hot liquor, carefully stir to ensure no doughballs. Set recirculation arm so it's below the mash surface and recirculate for the whole mash, including mashout.
Aside from the pre-boiling/chilling/Na-Meta, this is my standard routine. I've brewed this pale ale numerous times. Incorporating the LoDo stuff, I hit a pre-boil gravity of 1.039. My usual run of this stuff clocks right in at 1.043, every time. The volumes are right on the money, too. My normal mash efficiency is right on 90% with a 1.050 range beer. This one clocked in at 84%.
Is this efficiency hit normal with the low oxygen process? The milling is the same as it always is; it's my own 3 roller mill. The adjustments are all correct on it. The mash PH clocked in at 5.40 when I'm usually in the 5.42 range which I attributed to the metabisulfite/measurement 'noise'. I'm pretty thorough with my process and I'm reasonably certain that it's nothing different aside from the LoDo addition.
Being as it is a simple pale ale, initial infusion at 152f (66.7c) for a 60 minute mash with a 10 minute mashout at 168(75.5).
What's odd is I didn't alter any other process steps in wort creation aside from the pre-boil/chill/NaMeta. I doughed in the same, recirculated the same. Hell, even the mineral profile was the same.
This is actually my second time around doing 'full blown' LoDo. I incorporated some of the steps into my current brewhouse process after my initial test run minus the preboil/NaMeta.
It's odd. Not sure I like having a 60% brewhouse after regularly being in the 79-80% range. Since my gravity readings were low, I had to extend the boil a bit to hit my intended starting gravity and as a result I'll have less than 5 gallons of beer in the keg. Not the end of the world but it irritates the perfectionist in me.
Nope, I've been 'underletting' via slowly lowering the grain basket in for a long while now. Same thing with stirring; I just made extra sure not to splash but there weren't any doughballs when I was done.
Irt brewtan b what's their apprehension?
That’s odd.
New malt? How’s your conversion η? Maybe try switching up the mash schedule a bit. Get it into β range.
Of the first attempts at low oxygen brewing I've read from many homebrewers who found significant lower efficiencies, I would say the single most common issue is the lack of initial, complete mixing of the mash in combination with lack of stirring occasionally throughout the mash. The initial, complete mixing of grist with water at dough-in is very important, and subsequent stirring less so, especially when recirculating (since the recirc does the "stirring" for you during the mash). It certainly sounds like you were aware of this and accounted for it on this brew, which is where the real conundrum lies.
For me, on dough in, I also "underlet" via slowly lowering in my basket of grains. After they are fully lowered, I follow by a gentle and slow mixing until my thermometer reads the correct mash temp (this takes me about 3 minutes). As an example for my system (which is no recirc), this is very important because if I don't thoroughly mix everything then the mash/grist/grain would be sitting at ~136F when my aim is ~148F (for real, that big of a difference) while the liquid around the mash would be higher, maybe 152F or more. It's these large stratifications in temperatures inside my mashtun that require me to ensure complete initial mixing of the mash. It may be that your system doesn't require this kind of effort and is able to equalize better than mine.
Once you have a uniform mash temp throughout the grist, recirc should take care of any other mixing that would be needed on my system. The only caveat would be if your recirc is channeling and not getting a thorough mixing of the entire grist. Slow is good for recirculation (reduces compaction, reduces chance of channeling, less shearing of coagulates, etc).
I know you're a well-versed brewer and have probably already considered all of the above, but that's my only thought on why you would have had such a lower efficiency on this brew versus previous. The only other words of wisdom I might offer is that the sulfites are intended to serve as insurance against oxygen ingress during the brewing process, and as such, you should not be overly concerned with needing to tend to your mash in a direct and effective manner to achieve your intended goal (i.e. let the sulfites do their work while you're doing yours).
I hope this helps or sparks some thoughts on how you might attack a future low oxygen batch that doesn't suffer the same lower efficiency that you saw this batch. I know when I finally got things settled in to where they are, I saw a bump in efficiency from ~80% to ~82% (brewhouse/BK).
What's the issue with polyphenols?
(Edit) so I did some brief googling, cu ions help create superoxidizers or something, but we use brewtan b to mitigate the negative effects of cu but brewtan b creates polyphenols which cause superoxidizers... Or something. My head hurts. Can any one help?
My understanding on the polyphenol issue at this time is this:
- Polyphenols will bind and precipitate other staling agents in wort, rendering both benign
- Polyphenols will bind with some metals (copper, iron, maybe more) in wort that lead to early staling
- Excess polyphenols remaining in finished beer are said to quicken staling
- Not all polyphenols are created equal, nor are they all the same type
- Polyphenols from grain are different than those from hops
- Polyphenols from grain are beneficial prior to fermenter, afterwards are detrimental
- Polyphenols from hops are beneficial to packaged beer
- Brewtan B is polyphenols in purified/concentrate form
- Brewtan B is derived from gall nuts (i.e. not hops)
- Brewtan B is beneficial in slowing staling through binding/chelation, but excess is detrimental (i.e. it's a balancing act)
If you use water that contains any iron or copper, or you use any copper in your brewing system, then some amount of Brewtan B should prove beneficial to stability of your beer (i.e. if beers usually have a prime week of serving then this might be extended to several weeks). Malt contains some metals and the use of Brewtan B in the mash should help to bind with those metals and precipitate them so that they never make it into the BK.
All in all, it's a simple addition to try in your brewing process and something you can easily judge for yourself - regardless of any other brewing processes.
So, regarding yeast deoxygenation, the process is to measure out (batch size *2)
The amounts of yeast and sugar are not that critical really and you can err up and down quite a bit and still be fine. In my testing the amounts were calculated based on the mash water (strike) volume not packaged volume. But if you did use the strike volume for the calculations it would still work. Also you can use about any dry yeast for this. I chose bread because I knew it was tolerant to temperatures of at least 120f.
I have a question for the lodo guys who adhere to the Reinheitsgebot. How do you actually go about fining your beers?
Brewed an octoberfest this AM with Brewtan B. 2g added to boil. I'm honestly not expecting to notice anything different because I don't brew this style often. I forgot to add it to the G. pils I made a month ago. I brew simple (SMASH) pilsners often, so that would have been a useful experiment.
Anyhoo, I'm gonna make a few attempts to avoid introducing O2 after fermentation. I already use CO2 to push beer into purge kegs. Not ready to go full monte like you guys yet, though
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