The great starter debate

[Warrior]

ok i know there are two camps in this area. those that make a starter and swear by it and those that don't and wonder what's all the fuss.

my question is this. most of use either reuse yeast, use wyeast or white labs. in the case of wyeast - i still hear some insisting that a starter should be made. my contention is that wyeast is a starter in and of itself. why would you make a starter out of a starter?

white labs is pretty much shake n bake.

unless you're using dried yeast - it seems to me that the starter is not necessary.

what say ye?

From my own experience I used to always make starters with the old propagator size pouches of wyeast. The new Activator packs are good for direct pitching in a 5.5 gal batch that is around 1.07 or less O.G. I popped a pouch the morning before brewing a beer and it was swelled up good by the time I pitched the yeast 6 hours later. That beer was fermenting in about 6 hours. That was a 1.067 O.G. IPA using the Chico ale strain.

When I re use and wash the yeast from a previous ferment I do make a starter. I start it the day before and that is usually fermenting in about 4 to 6 hours. If you have a very high gravity beer I would suggest making a starter. For any beer under 1.07 gravity I see no reason that you can't pitch an activator right in after the pouch swells. If you have a pack that is older than 3 months I would maybe pop the pouch a day before you are ready to brew.

 

[Craig311]

This is going to sound extremely lazy, but I'm actually just curious...

Instead of making a starter, why not just pitch 2 Activator packs into 5 gallons??

 

[Yooper]

You certainly can, but then it costs twice as much! With yeast at $7 per pack, I try to get about 5 batches out of each pack if I can. I either do a starter and then split it, or wash the yeast, or pitch on the yeast cake, or some combination of the three.

 

[stormtracker]

You certainly can, but then it costs twice as much! With yeast at $7 per pack, I try to get about 5 batches out of each pack if I can. I either do a starter and then split it, or wash the yeast, or pitch on the yeast cake, or some combination of the three.

Ok help me out here If you would please.

I do the smack pack...
1. I pitch it into a small beaker with 2 cups of water and 1/2 cup of DME.
2. I shake the piss out of it for 2 days
3. I add it to another larger beaker with 2 cups of water and 1cup of DME.
4. I shake the piss out of it for 1 - 2 days?

I want to use the yeast for more than 1 batch. Do I just split it half and half? Do I refrigerate it and bring it to room temp to pitch? Or do I freeze a portion of it for the next batch?

Im thinking i refrigerate it and decant the wort off the top. I then split it for 2 different batches. One Im making immediately the other I will make in a few days to a week or more.

What should this process flow be?

I thought I was growing the yeast? By splitting it am I not back to where I started?

Thank you for any help.

 

[timdsmith72]

I'm in both camps! I make a starter when I use dry yeast...no starter when I use liquid yeast.

 

[delboy]

I'm in both camps! I make a starter when I use dry yeast...no starter when I use liquid yeast.

Most people do the exact opposite.

 

[timdsmith72]

lol. Never said I was normal...just in both camps.

 

[SuperiorBrew]

I'm in both camps! I make a starter when I use dry yeast...no starter when I use liquid yeast.

Do you mean you hydrate the dry yeast or do you actually add wort to the dry yeast? If the latter is the case you are actually making more of them less viable by doing it that way.

 

[Pugilist]

Yes according to Palmer (as we know an expert), it is actually detrimental to make a starter with dry yeast.

 

[timdsmith72]

I guess I technically just hydrate them. I add the packet to some water with a little sugar in it and let it sit for a few hours until it gets some foam on top.

 

[SuperiorBrew]

Yes according to Palmer (as we know an expert), it is actually detrimental to make a starter with dry yeast.

Exactly, you would end up the same if you just dumped some of the dry yeast in the trash and then hydrated per the manufacturers directions. Probably better off pitching it dry than making a starter with it

 

[timdsmith72]

I guess I technically just hydrate them. I add the packet to some water with a little sugar in it and let it sit for a few hours until it gets some foam on top.

I didn't know whether to call this a mini starter or just hydrating...

 

[SuperiorBrew]

http://www.danstaryeast.com/rehyd.html

http://www.fermentis.com/FO/EN/06-Ales/40-10_directions_hb.asp

 

[Pugilist]

I didn't know whether to call this a mini starter or just hydrating...

Ahh ok that you are supposed to do. Thought you were making an actual starter with it, was curious if it has been working if you did!

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter6-5.html

 

[Bobby_M]

A starter is mixing water with something fermentable, pitching the yeast and letting it ferment out before pitching into the main batch. Rehydrating is just that, mixing dry yeast in plain water between 80-100F. If you're adding sugar, you're technically "proofing" the yeast but you should only do that after the yeast has been fully hydrated for about 20 minutes. The sugar you add is really not doing any good and at worst it's about the same as dry pitching.

 

[timdsmith72]

Ahh ok that you are supposed to do. Thought you were making an actual starter with it, was curious if it has been working if you did!

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter6-5.html

Yep, it's been working great! I've made about 15 batches like that.
I've also made about 10 or 15 batches with White Labs liquid yeast with no starter and that has worked great so far also. Cooking a batch today actually.
Franziskaner Hefe Weissen.

 

[kukubau]

Wow- for a minute there I thought some old timers had come back to play!

Holy thread resurrection, Batman!

) I chime in.

 

[MaryB]

8 years later....

I do make a starter from dry yeast. I can my own wort for it when I have time and grain is dirt cheap as is my time being retired. My house ale that took 14 days to ferment is often ready to bottle in 5 days with a big starter.