Sprint Cider Questions

[keyert]

Hello,

I am trying to get my (17 gallons) of cider that has fermented with wine/champagne yeast for 2 weeks ready for drinking as quickly as possible while maximizing tastiness. The cider will likely be very dry so I plan to backsweeten. If you can, please fact check my statements and respond.

I am going to rack each of them into jugs to start. There will still be some leftover yeast at this point. I have read the cider will taste awful at this point, and that it needs to sit for a minimum of 2 weeks. I would like to skip this process if possible in any way. I was thinking about adding potassium sorbate to kill the current yeast left (campden tablets were added at the beginning of fermentation). And then backsweeten with brown sugar and some flavoring. What will I be left with? What is exactly the point of waiting to do this other than to obtain carbonation?

When adding the backsweetening a flavors it will probably need to be stirred in, but stirring will introduce oxygen. Will this damage the alcohol?

Thanks!!

 

[MarkKF]

If you aren't in need of all 17 gal. ASAP I wound suggest only bottling what you need now and aging the rest. If you run out and need more in a few weeks then bottle more and age the rest longer. Keep a bottle of each to taste side by side later.

 

[Yooper]

If the cider is finished, and clear, then campden and sorbate will allow you to sweeten the cider. If it's not finished and there are a lot of lees (sediment), it won't do anything.

The way it works is that sorbate does not kill yeast, but it prevents yeast reproduction. So, in an active fermentation when there are hundreds and hundreds of billions of active yeast, it won't do a thing. But once fermentation stops, and the cider clears, and the cider is racked off of the fallen yeast, it can be added to prevent yeast reproducing, thereby not allowing fermentation to begin again (usually). Sorbate works better in the presence of sulfite (campden), so they are generally added together.

However, it will NOT stop an active fermentation and will not work in a cider that is not clear and done fermenting.

 

[keyert]

Yes, I was thinking of saving some. "aging the rest" would still be racking now and adding fermentable sugar for carbonation though right? Or "aging the rest" would be leaving it in the fermenting bucket and racking in a week or two for carbonation?

I see, thank you for the sorbate tip. So if it's cloudy I can't rack at all? Would it be beneficial to still add sorbate to slow it down?
Also, would pectic enzyme help to clear cloudiness at this point?

 

[Yooper]

Yes, I was thinking of saving some. "aging the rest" would still be racking now and adding fermentable sugar for carbonation though right? Or "aging the rest" would be leaving it in the fermenting bucket and racking in a week or two for carbonation?

I see, thank you for the sorbate tip. So if it's cloudy I can't rack at all? Would it be beneficial to still add sorbate to slow it down?
Also, would pectic enzyme help to clear cloudiness at this point?

It has to finish fermenting before anything else- it won't "age" until after it's "done".

If it's cloudy, you can definitely rack. You can't stabilize it until it's time, and it will be done when it's done and clear when it's clear. To expect a cider to be finished in two weeks is unrealistic, but to expect it to be finished, clear, and ready to stabilize and package is even more so.

 

[keyert]

How do I know when I can stabilize? By measuring the gravity?
Thanks

 

[Yooper]

How do I know when I can stabilize? By measuring the gravity?
Thanks

Yes, gravity that stays stable over a period of time is one way to tell. The next clue is that the cider will start to clear, and when it's put into a new vessel via racking (siphoning), it will no longer drop any lees (sediment) after 60 days.

You can bottle before the 60 days is up with no new lees, but it probably won't be ready to stabilize and sweeten until there are no lees dropping.

If you bottle it dry (unsweetened), if the gravity is stable the worst thing that can happen is you'll get a ton of sediment in the bottles. It doesn't taste that good, but it won't hurt you if you do that.

But if you want to stabilize it and then sweeten it, if you do it too soon bottle bombs will result. That is dangerous, so I wouldn't rush a sweet bottled cider.

 

[keyert]

Okay, I don't quite understand what's preventing me from repeatedly siphoning off the cider while waiting a few hours in between for most of the lees to settle until I get essentially yeast-less cider and then adding sorbate though.
I guess this is the question of the definition of "ready to stabilize"

 

[MarkKF]

You can't stabilize it until it's time, and it will be done when it's done and clear when it's clear. To expect a cider to be finished in two weeks is unrealistic, but to expect it to be finished, clear, and ready to stabilize and package is even more so.

I love this quote!!! I let the cider tell me when, I don't tell the cider. And when it's done & clear I still wait.

 

[Yooper]

Okay, I don't quite understand what's preventing me from repeatedly siphoning off the cider while waiting a few hours in between for most of the lees to settle until I get essentially yeast-less cider and then adding sorbate though.
I guess this is the question of the definition of "ready to stabilize"

The cider doesn't clear "in a few hours". It clears from the top down, via gravity.

You also don't want to oxidize your cider, leaving lots of headspace in either vessel.

In order to get yeast-less cider, you'd have to sterile filter.

 

[keyert]

Successfully racked. Now I am waiting for it to settle to bottle. They are in fermenting buckets, so can I add brown sugar and sorbate now if the goal is to get to bottling as quickly as possible?

 

[Yooper]

Successfully racked. Now I am waiting for it to settle to bottle. They are in fermenting buckets, so can I add brown sugar and sorbate now if the goal is to get to bottling as quickly as possible?

If you've racked them, they really should be in carboys (something with a reduced headspace), as oxidation will ruin the cider fairly quickly, as well to let oxygen loving bacteria or mold to take hold.

You cannot add sugar and sorbate at the same time. Well, of course you can but then you'll have bottle bombs.

 

[keyert]

These things will still occur in a fermenting bucket that is sealed with an airlock and has no more than an inch of headspace?
So I should add the sorbate right now and wait a week to add the sugar?

 

[MarkKF]

The surface area of a bucket with an inch headspace is huge compared to a carboy with an inch of headspace.

 

[ericbw]

These things will still occur in a fermenting bucket that is sealed with an airlock and has no more than an inch of headspace?

So I should add the sorbate right now and wait a week to add the sugar?

Dude, no. You should wait 60 days and see if there are new lees.

If you don't want to wait, then you should serve from the fermenter, trying not to disturb the sediment. That's the only way you should be drinking this cider now. Anything else is risking explosions, oxidation, etc.

Why do you need to serve it so fast?

 

[Yooper]

Yes, gravity that stays stable over a period of time is one way to tell. The next clue is that the cider will start to clear, and when it's put into a new vessel via racking (siphoning), it will no longer drop any lees (sediment) after 60 days.

You can bottle before the 60 days is up with no new lees, but it probably won't be ready to stabilize and sweeten until there are no lees dropping.

If you bottle it dry (unsweetened), if the gravity is stable the worst thing that can happen is you'll get a ton of sediment in the bottles. It doesn't taste that good, but it won't hurt you if you do that.

But if you want to stabilize it and then sweeten it, if you do it too soon bottle bombs will result. That is dangerous, so I wouldn't rush a sweet bottled cider.

Not really anything further to add.

 

[keyert]

I do not have any carboys available, so my only option is to bottle as is?

 

[Yooper]

I do not have any carboys available, so my only option is to bottle as is?

I don't have an answer for that. If you bottle now, and it's not done fermenting, you may have bottle bombs. If you leave it in the bucket, you may have problems with oxidation. Neither choice is something I would want to deal with.

 

[ericbw]

It's SAFER to leave it in the bucket.