Safale US-04 yeast = funky flavor?

[Hurphy]

The off flavor I've had (both with Nottingham and US-04) was a sort of sour-ish aftertaste (but not like a good sour -- just a "whiff of vinegar" sour).

I have had much better success using my same setup with US-05. So far, I think it has to do with fermentation temps, and US-04 being a lot more picky about temps in the higher range than US-05.

I recall reading a thread a while ago where many folks swore off ever using US-04 after it "ruined [a / another] batch". I found this right after kegging my US-04 fermented brew, and it felt a bit like watching a car crash...

I'm just now trying to get better control of my fermentation temps -- got a cool brewing bag after seeing the ad here on HBT. I plan to try another US-04 ferment once I get a handle on temp control -- maybe try a split ferment of a double batch using US-04 and US-05 to do a side-by-side comparison, even.

My funky Nottingham seemed to get better with time. Or, maybe, I just got used to the flavor... I'm giving this brew a long chill out, too, to see what happens.

Good luck!

Has anyone learned the trick with this yeast after all these years? I used this earlier this summer and fermented at like 55 degrees and the beer turned out great. Did the same thing three weeks ago and the hydrometer sample tasted sour. Seriously wtf is wrong with this yeast?

 

[Dland]

Congrats on first 5 batches.

S-04 is has a fairly predicable flavor profile profile, if used at the recommended fermentation temperatures.

Might want to look in variations in extract age and quality also. Was it DME or LME?

 

[Protos]

Has anyone learned the trick with this yeast after all these years?

I was told that to lower the chances of getting tart beer with S-04 you shouldn't pitch the first generation of the yeast right from the sachet. You should multiply it first in a starter or, better, use harvested slurry. Then, they said, the beer turns our much less tart.
I've been willing to prove this for long, but the horror stories of my past experiences with this yeast are still preventing me from sacrificing a batch for the experiment.

 

[tld6008]

Never had a problem with it, always rehydrate and ferment at 65-68f

 

[dmtaylor]

I sprinkle it on top and it turns out great.

I do think, however, that the strain has somehow been cleaned up or otherwise "fixed" by the manufacturer over the past 3-4 years, such that if you haven't used it in a while, you should be able to safely try it again today and obtain much better results. For me, I am going to use S-04 everywhere that I used to use US-05 which I personally find inferior.

That, or maybe my palate just really is that terrible.

 

[Drewch]

I've been thinking about giving up on S-04 — I may try it once more on the very cool end of its temperature range (I think I still have one sachet). I get flavor elements from it that I don't care for. I used to think it was me but I've had enough success with other yeasts that I'm less inclined to blame myself.

I'm getting close to the it's-not-me-it's-you point with S-04...

 

[superiorsat]

I've never had any issues with S-04. It starts fast and runs hot so I can see it getting away on people if they are not reigning it in on the temp.

 

[Protos]

I fermented it cold. I fermented it warm. I aged a batch for a year. To no awail, it throws lot of Lactic Acid every time. It's not just tart, it's outwardly sour. Even when a Lactobacillus contamination is excluded.

M36 from Mangrove Jacks is essentially the same strain but a much better behaved one. So I switched to it.

The only problem, I've got a stash of S-04 sachets bought when I wasn't aware of the true colours of the yeast. I've got a lot of it and I need to use it up somehow

 

[Miraculix]

I fermented it cold. I fermented it warm. I aged a batch for a year. To no awail, it throws lot of Lactic Acid every time. It's not just tart, it's outwardly sour. Even when a Lactobacillus contamination is excluded.

M36 from Mangrove Jacks is essentially the same strain but a much better behaved one. So I switched to it.

The only problem, I've got a stash of S-04 sachets bought when I wasn't aware of the true colours of the yeast. I've got a lot of it and I need to use it up somehow

I think, your packs might be a special batch or something like this, because it never gave me lactic acid. I've had relatively clean beers and best flocculation ever from it. But you are certainly not the first person reporting this behaviour of s04, so there must be something to it somehow. When did you try it and how old are the packs?

 

[Drewch]

So, a question — is there a trend with the grain bill or hops that might correspond with the bad behavior?

Edit: or even water profile? I generally use RO adjusted to Bf's Balanced or Strong Balanced.

I have mostly used it in darker beers with English hops — dark mild though brown ale to stout. Mostly EKG, Fuggles, Progress.

I have done meads and ciders with it and not noticed the off flavor — but those tend to be more acidic anyway.

 

[pvtpublic]

Check this out. It's an off flavor troubleshooting guide.

 

[Protos]

I think, your packs might be a special batch or something like this, because it never gave me lactic acid. I've had relatively clean beers and best flocculation ever from it. But you are certainly not the first person reporting this behaviour of s04, so there must be something to it somehow. When did you try it and how old are the packs?

I haven't been brewing with S-04 for 2 years. The sachets are still not expired, I bought them very fresh.
Sometimes I'm thinking of trying it again, after multiplying in a starter... but then I feel pity for my potentially wasted grains and efforts and take M36 instead.

 

[Miraculix]

I haven't been brewing with S-04 for 2 years. The sachets are still not expired, I bought them very fresh.
Sometimes I'm thinking of trying it again, after multiplying in a starter... but then I feel pity for my potentially wasted grains and efforts and take M36 instead.

OK, then it might be a case of old batch problems. Not "expired" old, but "old version s04 strain" old. They have changed something with this yeast, as it looks like. The new version does not do the strange stuff any more. Maybe safe the old version for cider or throw it away. If you try this yeast again, make sure it is a brand new pack. It behaves just like you are describing m36, which I finally managed to brew with again. It looks like it is a very nice bitter, not much yeast derived flavour but still a nice bitter.

 

[Bobby_M]

Add me to the list of people who get a tart, almost metallic effect from S-04. I can be relatively sure the yeast is the variable because this was a split batch that was also fermented separately with WLP002. The White Labs version of the beer is delicious and took a bronze metal recently.

 

[Miraculix]

Add me to the list of people who get a tart, almost metallic effect from S-04. I can be relatively sure the yeast is the variable because this was a split batch that was also fermented separately with WLP002. The White Labs version of the beer is delicious and took a bronze metal recently.

When was the pack manufactured?

 

[HM-2]

I'm a very regular S-04 user (basically, 90% of my British beers contain it as one element to a copitch and a still regularly brew beers exclusively with it) and I've never had a "tart" or "metallic" taste from it. It can sometimes push a bit of apple or pear IME, especially if it's fermented a bit on the warm side, but I've never had that lactic twang you sometimes get with Kveik, or metallic.

 

[aceluby]

S04 is my goto ale yeast and I’ve never gotten that flavor either. Probably because when I do there are so many flavors that I never really get any yeast flavors. I prefer it to the US05 lately, just because I’ve gotten a couple of duds that didn’t ferment at all.

 

[Bobby_M]

When was the pack manufactured?

It can't be too old because I sell a case a week and I don't buy a huge quantity at a time.