No hope for S-33 ?

[AlcheMania]

This here packet of s-33 has been sitting in my fridge for too darn long and all I can find online is: reasons not to use it as Safale labels it and just about zero examples of it a being a preferred choice for any particular style. So here's my understanding and plan.
It's an English strain, fairly low in attenuation, but not particularly high in character.
How do I ramp up the character while keeping things well attenuated? Also, the yeast doesn't want to ferment larger sugar chains.... so why fight its natural tendencies with a lower mash temp?

Low ish ABV (Best Bitter)
Specialty malts (Biscuit n Crystal)
High'ish mash temp (155)
High' ish Ferm temp (68-70)
Plenty of dextrose to dry it up (9%)

Recipe:
Marris Otter 82.5 %
Dextrose 9%
Biscuit 3.5%
Dark Crystal 2.5%
Extra Dark Crystal 2.5%

Northern Brew 60 min 20 IBU
East Kent Gold 15 min 6 IBU
East Kent Gold 5 min 4 IBU

OG: 1.044
FG: 1.011
ABV: 4.3
IBU: 30

S04: 120
Cl: 60
Na: 30

Will give this a go October 5th ish.

Currently got a pils (34/70) and a Dark mild (nottingham)
Bubbling away

Cheers!

 

[hotbeer]

Depends on your how strong your desire is for minimizing risk.

How long out of date is it? I'd probably use it for one of my smaller batches of a simple and uncomplicated ale recipe of some sort. If it doesn't kick off, then you can always pitch something else. But if you are willing to take a chance that recipe is fine too.

Is all your crystal malt fermentable or does it make a higher amount of unfermentable sugars. I might not use a low attenuating yeast on anything that has a lot of unfermentable ingredients. But I personally don't care for body and sweet in my beer.

It's low attenuating supposedly. So the beer will finish with more sugars intact and it will have more mouth feel. I too have a out of date packet of it in my refrigerator. I'll probably chance it at some point. But I'll probably use the entire packet on 2 or 3 gallon batch.

I have used it before. However I had some other issues with my FV that wound up with all the beer being lost. But it seemed to ferment well enough. Unfortunately, I failed to take a FG reading before I lost it and didn't have a raptPill yet.

 

[Peebee]

It's an English strain, fairly low in attenuation, but not particularly high in character.

Is that a comment to windup English users on this Website? 'Cos you don't like the English?

Well, I'm Welsh, so what the hell: "Not particularly high in character" ... given that the preferred dried yeast around here is US-05 that is devoid of any character at all, that's a laughable conclusion. But, if you mean "there are more characterful yeasts", yes there are, seemingly all liquid yeasts unfortunately? "Fairly low in attenuation" ... so it is, and reliably so too. And long may it stay so for those that don't like fizzy pap called by some "beer". "It's an English strain" ... perhaps, but who cares. Oh ... and the better European homebrewers don't give a flying fig for "styles" anyway.


But, enough sour grapes; "Plenty of dextrose to dry it up", you might be better off dropping the mash temperature 10°F, 155°F is a bit high for a highly fermentable wort. But you're not proclaiming the resulting highly dextrinous wort will make a sweet beer. No, dextrin isn't very sweet, whereas many say it is ... I reckon there's hope for you yet.


I'd better be more balanced ... if you want a yeast equally devoid of character as US-05, try "Nottingham" ... Ah, I see you already have.

 

[Peebee]

The yeasts famous for high attenuation and strong (at times bazaar!) character are the "Belgium" yeasts. They use quite a lot of sugar in Belgium too; but please, avoid the "Belgium" "Candi" (with an "i") sugar: That's for tourists.

 

[AlcheMania]

Depends on your how strong your desire is for minimizing risk.

How long out of date is it? I'd probably use it for one of my smaller batches of a simple and uncomplicated ale recipe of some sort. If it doesn't kick off, then you can always pitch something else. But if you are willing to take a chance that recipe is fine too.

Is all your crystal malt fermentable or does it make a higher amount of unfermentable sugars. I might not use a low attenuating yeast on anything that has a lot of unfermentable ingredients. But I personally don't care for body and sweet in my beer.

It's low attenuating supposedly. So the beer will finish with more sugars intact and it will have more mouth feel. I too have a out of date packet of it in my refrigerator. I'll probably chance it at some point. But I'll probably use the entire packet on 2 or 3 gallon batch.

I have used it before. However I had some other issues with my FV that wound up with all the beer being lost. But it seemed to ferment well enough. Unfortunately, I failed to take a FG reading before I lost it and didn't have a raptPill yet.

So to clarify its not quite expired. Just been in the fridge longer than usual for me on account of not being able to decide on a good recipe. It'll be a 4 gallon batch, keg fermed.
I actually like a nice malty beer so long as it's balanced with the hop and water profile.

 

[AlcheMania]

Is that a comment to windup English users on this Website? 'Cos you don't like the English?

Well, I'm Welsh, so what the hell: "Not particularly high in character" ... given that the preferred dried yeast around here is US-05 that is devoid of any character at all, that's a laughable conclusion. But, if you mean "there are more characterful yeasts", yes there are, seemingly all liquid yeasts unfortunately? "Fairly low in attenuation" ... so it is, and reliably so too. And long may it stay so for those that don't like fizzy pap called by some "beer". "It's an English strain" ... perhaps, but who cares. Oh ... and the better European homebrewers don't give a flying fig for "styles" anyway.


But, enough sour grapes; "Plenty of dextrose to dry it up", you might be better off dropping the mash temperature 10°F, 155°F is a bit high for a highly fermentable wort. But you're not proclaiming the resulting highly dextrinous wort will make a sweet beer. No, dextrin isn't very sweet, whereas many say it is ... I reckon there's hope for you yet.


I'd better be more balanced ... if you want a yeast equally devoid of character as US-05, try "Nottingham" ... Ah, I see you already have.

So to clarify kind sir, I mention it's an English strain because between the safale misinformation, and the info from brewers on either YouTube or here, i seem to find it being used for anything but traditional English styles.
My go to liquid yeast for a strong bitter happens to wlp007 Dry English Which has plenty of yeast character IMO (i ferment @ 68) but also finishes plenty dry without any need for sugar adjuncts.
Yeah, I've seen the trend of mashing lower to offset this yeasts lower attenuation, but since nobody seems to be raving about that route I figure I'd say nuts to that and go the other way with it. Let's leave more potentially tasty unfermentables and dry it up with the dextrose.

 

[hotbeer]

If it's not past the use by date on the pack, then just figure the dosage for pitch as normal. Especially since it's been stored in the fridge.

The longer shelf life of dry yeast is part of what their dosage info is tailored too. That's probably why many of us find that dry yeast seems to give way more active cells per gram than the makers claim in the specs.

 

[James_AZ]

Are you sure you have the same s33 as is on the fermentis site?

Dosage / Temperature​

50 to 80 g/hl at ideally 18-26°C (64.4-78.8°F).

Ideal yeast to enhance hoppy and fruity expressions of your ale beers​

Fruity driven strain, gives a high mouthfeel and body to the beer. Ideal for Belgian Ales (Blond, Dubbel, Tripel, Quadrupel Styles) and strong English ales (ex. Imperial Stouts). It is also ideal for New England IPAs. Yeast with a medium sedimentation: forms no clumps but a powdery haze when resuspended in the beer.

Ingredients: Yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae), emulsifier E491

I’d mash low and ferment in the upper 70s. F.

 

[AlcheMania]

Are you sure you have the same s33 as is on the fermentis site?

Dosage / Temperature​

50 to 80 g/hl at ideally 18-26°C (64.4-78.8°F).

​

Ideal yeast to enhance hoppy and fruity expressions of your ale beers​

Fruity driven strain, gives a high mouthfeel and body to the beer. Ideal for Belgian Ales (Blond, Dubbel, Tripel, Quadrupel Styles) and strong English ales (ex. Imperial Stouts). It is also ideal for New England IPAs. Yeast with a medium sedimentation: forms no clumps but a powdery haze when resuspended in the beer.

Ingredients: Yeast (Saccharomyces cerevisiae), emulsifier E491

I’d mash low and ferment in the upper 70s. F.
View attachment 857534

Yep, same one. I'm going mainly off of subjective reports vs what safale states, as they seem to be fairly out of line. Def not a Belgian yeast.
Indeed, most seem to go with the lower mash temp approach to get a lower finishing gravity. But I wanna see how a higher mash (more unfermentables) plus dextrose (to bump the abv and dry up the beer) does to achieve a maltier tasting beer in the end.

 

[dmtaylor]

I'd use it for a stout or a mild. Something where the malt overpowers and the low attenuation would be welcomed. Nothing wrong with S-33. I've got a pack in the fridge for a rainy day. And it will keep for many years so that's not much of a concern.

 

[AlcheMania]

I'd use it for a stout or a mild. Something where the malt overpowers and the low attenuation would be welcomed. Nothing wrong with S-33. I've got a pack in the fridge for a rainy day. And it will keep for many years so that's not much of a concern.

Makes sense. My search for recipe ideas lead me to the conclusion that it was a thoroughly misused yeast. And i may be guilty of the same with my dextrose shenanigans. Fingers crossed.

 

[James_AZ]

The pic in my post is from

suregork.com

Is said to be based off genetic sequencing.

Me guesses you’ll have a lovely beer.

 

[Dog House Brew]

One of my least favorites, just my opinion. I used it years ago and tossed it. Kind of like ringwood, hated them both.

 

[MaxStout]

You could go the other direction and use it for a small beer (i.e., ~3%), where the lower attenuation would retain some body.

 

[AlcheMania]

One of my least favorites, just my opinion. I used it years ago and tossed it. Kind of like ringwood, hated them both

How come?
WLP 007 has been my recent go to for Bitters and English IPA just right on yeast character @ 68F
Safale 04 def don't do it for me.
Nottingham is fine for a cleaner specialty-malt forward beer.
I may be one and done after using the pack. Well see.

 

[HM-2]

WLP007 is a great yeast but it over-attenuates in beers ~1.050 and below for many British styles, IMO. WHC Old English (which is basically dry 007) is my house yeast for most British, and some American, styles over 5% ABV. It makes a really good American style IPA.

IME Notty is pretty similar, slightly less ester production and usually marginally lower attenuation. My go-to for ~5% bitters.

S-04 is...fine. I don't like it's propensity to throw a bit of tartness when fermented warmer, but cool its perfectly fine as a neutral ale yeast.

 

[Peebee]

My search for recipe ideas lead me to the conclusion that it was a thoroughly misused yeast. And i may be guilty of the same with my dextrose shenanigans.

Misused? I misuse it in all sorts of ways, 'cos it's so predictable! Low-alcohol beers (<1% ABV) and fairly high alcohol (6-7% ABV). It can be easily manipulated to give the results you want, mainly through careful control of the mash temperature. The yeast is quite incapable of fermenting "Dextrin", whereas some other "dextrin averse" strains, like "Windsor", will decide to have a go at dextrin when the mood takes it.

I'll use S-33 in place of my preferred liquid yeast for this job ... WY-1099. That's the less attenuative Whitbread yeast, there's the very attenuative WY-1098 "dry" Whitbread yeast which I think is the same as the Whitelabs WLP007 (not a yeast I've used ... far too attenuative, only fit for fizzy, very un-British, "beer").

But the most outrageous brew I've made with S-33 wasn't a beer, but an (historic) Ale. "Stitch" to a 1736 recipe. No-one knew what yeast was, some even thought it was a waste product from some sort of unseen mythical beastie or chemical reaction. Hops were only just beginning to catch on as an agricultural crop (they were uncommon weeds before then). My "Stitch" was mashed from a large quantity of my "emulation" of Brown Malt (there wasn't much "pale malt" in those days, some kilning with straw and coke from sea-coal and there was "sun-dried" but not much in damp old Blighty!). Mash temperature was 174-176°F! Perhaps a bit warmer than we're used to? It was hopped, to about 10IBU (an estimate someone derived from the original recipe). A Tilt hydrometer followed the fermentation .. monitored by a Tilt Pi:

Yeap ... that's a finishing gravity of 1.035! And no, it wasn't sweet, dextrin isn't sweet which is why you hear me ranting when brewers claim high FG beers are sickly sweet ... they do not know what they are talking about. Ales were "liquid bread", and English soldiers would have a supply before going into battle ... not to get drunk! But to get well fed and energised.

It was my first attempt at an ale, and I was quite pleased with it. It was hopped (as was becoming normal by 18th C.). King Henry VIII (16th C. ... the one that slaughtered a couple of his wives) ensured his sailors were well oiled before battle, but that was "new" hopped beer as being brewed by the immigrant workers from the Continent (it kept longer than Ale). I should try brewing more, but this stuff really is fattening!



And where was this story to fit in with the OP? @AlcheMania ... I reckon you can mash all-grain (no dextrose) at, say, 152-153°F (that's a guess, maybe a bit high?) and rely on S-33's distaste of dextrin to retain the body? Even try the "Heritage" malts mashed at 145°F (they do tend to mash more dextrinous).