Problem with off flavors in JUST my IPAs. Going to test but would this work.

[BreezyBrew]

I love a feel good story!

 

[Hermit]

WOW. Who knew water could make such a difference in beer taste. Someone should write a book.

 

[ajdelange]

I'm coming in late here but it is very unlikely that Porland water, which is the envy of brewers everywhere, is responsible for the problems perceived here.

As to the bicarbonate it is unnecessary for a grist that is mostly basemalt with such a wee amount of light crystal as described in #6. You can have up to 6.76 mEq/L Ca++ (135 mg/L; 338 ppm as CaCO3 calcium hardness) and 3% saurmalz without busting pH 5.3 though with this much calcium it would probably be a good idea to use half the sauermalz (1.5%) in which case mash pH would be 5.39. Even this much calcium only suppresses pH by 0.1. pH estimates as always subject to the caveats that no pH prediction calculation can be considered accurate unless the malts have been measured properly and the proper data entered into the calculator. Also, I'm not suggesting that addition of bicarbonate in this case would be enough to ruin the beer as not much seems to have been called for. If we 0 the sauermalz and add the 1.25 mEq/L alkalinity talked about in an earlier post we could expect a mash pH of 5.56 which is marginally acceptable.

When people discover that water is important they tend to come to the conclusion that any problem with a beer is traceable to the water (e.g. Nos. 32 and 30). The whole idea behind the Primer is that if you can gin up water that meets the criteria in that post you can be assured that your beer problem isn't water related. I'm pretty sure that's the case here. Without, admittedly, thorough study of the whole thread I do seem to recall that one of the complaints was a caramel like taste. That could come from, for example, overly high heater temperature in the boil (actual caramelization of sugars) or it could come from diacetyl which tastes very much like caramel in low concentration.

 

[Hermit]

When people discover that water is important they tend to come to the conclusion that any problem with a beer is traceable to the water (e.g. Nos. 32 and 30).

Blame what you understand the least is a common occurrence, not just water treatment.

 

[Rivenin]

It's not just "caramel" flavors though, it's just all around bland, blah (and in wine terms) Tannic tasting... and the last hoppy beers that iv'e made since i've moved to this side of portland have been dreadful (along with some others that have been all with a base of portland water)

I did do a batch with just basemalt and a bit of caramel and a few oz of hops and the calculator even said i was 5.5ph without salt additions, so i did none... it was awful and had the same taste that all the other ones did. kinda bitey, nasty, tannic. But if i do the same stuff with R/O water it comes out clean and crisp even without salt additions.

Portland water is super close to R/O water, so i'm confused as 2 similar recipes, 1 is terrible, but the one i made with R/O water tastes correct and fine, and that has been the case since i moved back to portland. (many recipes with both R/O water and Portland water treated with campden). This is where my confusion lies.

Instead of wasting money on batches like that, since i have a very low income, i'm just biting the bullet on what i know works.

If you could come down and taste the beer and brew a batch with me it would be awesome so we can for sure rule out the water, but with the same equipment i'm using for everything else and the same procedure, beers are drastically different.

 

[mabrungard]

I'm hoping that there are no brewers that think that RO water solves everything and they don't have to add anything to their water. As the Primer points out, there is often a need for mineral and/or acid adjustments...even when you start with RO water. There is an article on the Bru'n Water Facebook page that highlights the need to adjust your water even when that water is 'pure'.

 

[Rivenin]

Yep! i'm adding stuff to the RO water, just did a test for fun with the straight R/O water and R/O water with salts to see the difference on the same exact recipe.

R/O water works for me currently becuase even though i've been following guidelines, killing chloramines, waiting out chlorine with water left out for 2 days (which, by the way was what i had to do before i moved to portland, just across the hill in lake oswego, which made great beer) adding acid malt, adding salts, etc. They are just not turning out... but i have used tap water in the past without issue, but not where i'm at.

So there is something here that i'm wasting money on recipes that is killing the brews with the water where i am at... but i am on a limited budget and each batch wipes out about 1/4 of my monthly fun spending usually so it's really hard to get beers like that. R/O water seems to have solved my issues until i can get more cash. unless someone has another good idea for me, i'm open to ideas.

 

[ajdelange]

R/O water works for me currently becuase even though i've been following guidelines, killing chloramines, waiting out chlorine with water left out for 2 days (which, by the way was what i had to do before i moved to portland, just across the hill in lake oswego, which made great beer) adding acid malt, adding salts, etc. They are just not turning out... but i have used tap water in the past without issue, but not where i'm at.

This doesn't make any sense at all. Adjustments of a couple of percent sauermalz or a mEq/L alkalinity or the differences between Portland water and RO water just don't explain the kinds of differences you are seeing. Things are not what they seem. Have you had Ward Labs analyses done on your house water? Are you sure it is clear of, for example, high levels of iron from old pipe?

 

[Rivenin]

Ward labs has, but the fun part is, it's not all the time where it's like this (IPAs were always just off) beers turn out decent, and then for a stretch just turn out off, then go back to normal for a few months.

I actually was looking at the page last night to do another analyses since it's off again right now and see if the readings come up different because they do switch water, but maybe if i could find out when, it would help. But either way it should still be clean

The house was built in 2006, so it shouldn't be anything with the pipes that i can think lf. All the runs from the water line to the water heater and out and stuff are all copper, i haven't seen any iron pipe yet.

Although playing around on the portlands website i noticed something interesting.

How is my tap water treated?
Bull Run water is not filtered.
Chlorine is added to disinfect the water of any potential natural contaminants.
Ammonia is added in a process called chloramination to ensure that water throughout the system meets federal and state drinking water regulations. Without ammonia the chlorine would evaporate by the end of the supply line..

Some of the same-ish flavors i've received in the past in lake oswego water are in this water (not the same, but similar) which was due to chlorine... once i just left a few buckets of water out overnight it worked out just fine. Would it be worth it to fill a few buckets, put some campden in and let them sit out for a day or two?

Is it possible that chlorine is there and ammonia is just there and not coming together to become chloramines and just sticking to their own selves? or chlorine is possibly just sticking around after the chloramine is treated?

 

[Hermit]

Is it possible that chlorine is there and ammonia is just there and not coming together to become chloramines and just sticking to their own selves? or chlorine is possibly just sticking around after the chloramine is treated?

My understanding is that the ammonia turns the chlorine to chorlomine and that won't dissipate easily without some help. Use the cambden tablets.

 

[Rivenin]

Have been using campden on every batch. Just didn't know if something had to happen or if it bonded automatically.