Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

[mac_1103]

they are slashing because they may have hit market saturation

If that were true they would cut to zero.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

But continued growth is key, they are slashing because they may have hit market saturation. Time will tell.

So it was 7.6% in 2023. Are you predicting that EV annual sales will remain <10% market share in, say, 2030?

 

[Airborneguy]

Thanks for that article! I hadn't seen this good news about EV growth. Seems as if those open to new ideas are steadily checking them out. Those with mental blocks - for ahem, a reason - will continue to stay away. That's better for all of us.

 

[sibelman]

Are you predicting...

Here's a prediction of continued growth, though reality may never match marketing projections.

 

[passedpawn]

My problem was with temperature adjusted efficiency. ICE vehicles are also less efficient in the cold.

Not exactly. Combustion engines obviously are self-heating, which means that parts that don't like to be cold won't be cold for long. That heat, distributed by water and oil, is a sweet by-product of combustion that EVs don't have. Great for heating the cabin of the vehicle, too.

Now, before you zealots get all triggered lol, I'm a fan of the EVs and see myself in one someday. Maybe that new Ramcharger, which looks supercool.

 

[tracer bullet]

Meanwhile: BMW Says ICE Demand Has Peaked, Growth Is All In EVs From Here | Carscoops

 

[Kent88]

Not exactly.

IDK, my gas jeep definitely drops a few MPG in the winter.

You can definitely argue that the difference in winter efficiency isn't as bad in ICE as it is in EVs, but it's still there.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

 

[day_trippr]

Cliff Notes?
I stopped watching Scotty over a year ago. Too annoying...

 

[mac_1103]

That heat, distributed by water and oil, is a sweet by-product of combustion that EVs don't have.

Actually it's a tremendous fuel inefficiency.

 

[passedpawn]

Actually it's a tremendous fuel inefficiency.

Actually it's a sweet by-product of combustion that EVs don't have. If you want to talk about fuel efficiency, start with E=MC^2. Yea, that's a different topic, isn't it.

 

[tracer bullet]

Not exactly. Combustion engines obviously are self-heating, which means that parts that don't like to be cold won't be cold for long. That heat, distributed by water and oil, is a sweet by-product of combustion that EVs don't have. Great for heating the cabin of the vehicle, too.

Now, before you zealots get all triggered lol, I'm a fan of the EVs and see myself in one someday. Maybe that new Ramcharger, which looks supercool.

What parts do you have in mind that don't like to be cold? The water and oil necessities of a gas engine?

I'm currently glad for heat in the car, not so much in the summer. I'd have to guess if you took data for all the days across the country you'd find more often than not the A/C is on as opposed to the heat. Only a guess, so nevermind.

Curious who the zealots are? As a non EV owner, I see people who have them debunking the myths, but not a single zealot. I haven't seen a single person that wont' immediately tell you they aren't for everyone. Only that they could work for more people than some people think. And who tire of the nonsense hit pieces.

My next car will almost certainly be ICE, but I do like to see what EV's can and can't do. I also like people to actually share an opinion an not just drop off a hit piece, or to back up whatever assertions they make. Stirring the pot can be fun too.

Anyhow, the heat thing. Gas engines are good because... gas engines like to be hot? Or something?

If you want to talk about fuel efficiency, start with E=MC^2

I think I see now - this is a homebrew forum after all. Clearly I haven't had as much as you have tonight. Cheers.

 

[passedpawn]

Anyhow, the heat thing. Gas engines are good because... gas engines like to be hot? Or something?

Combustion engines create heat. Heat can be used to warm the cabin, and also warm the mechanical parts which work better when the lubricating oil is less viscous. That's all I was saying. Won't comment on the rest of your post.

 

[Thorrak]

Too bad about the lightning. I kind of want one, mostly for V2H. Not at the price they want to charge, however.

 

[Kharnynb]

our next car will be a hybrid, mostly due to there being no dacia jogger full ev yet .

Price is still an issue for me personally, if we would have needed a second car, i'd go for a small electric one, but my ebike is fine and doesn't require us to spend 2-3k on renovating our home electrics and paying 100 a month more on "base-carry capacity" to our electric company(you pay a base price+kwh to the local company that does "transfer" and the base is based on main fuse size for some reason).

 

[whoaru99]

IDK, my gas jeep definitely drops a few MPG in the winter.

You can definitely argue that the difference in winter efficiency isn't as bad in ICE as it is in EVs, but it's still there.

My ICE cars do too, which I attribute mostly to the 0 mpg when I let it idle warm up for one or two remote start cycles, go into a store, etc.

I presume EV has some sort of similar warm up / heat producing "idle" capability?

 

[Kent88]

Yeah, I think when one remote starts an EV while it's plugged into a Level 2 charger the components that start will draw energy slower than the plug supplies it. So people start from their garage/driveway and don't suffer a range penalty.

I've been really enjoying starting my vehicle in the garage and not worrying about getting carbon monoxide poisoning.

 

[Airborneguy]

I turn the heat on 2-3 minutes before leaving, while plugged in.

 

[whoaru99]

On the LiFePO4 cells I've used to build battery packs, example during build 12V, 210Ah

they can't be charged at low temps or risk damage. So, for cold weather one can incorporate heating or the BMS prevents charging.

In an EV, do the batteries have the same cold charging concern? If so, is battery heating part of an automatic process below a certain temp?

 

[Broothru]

On the LiFePO4 cells I've used to build battery packs, example during build 12V, 210Ah

View attachment 839618


they can't be charged at low temps or risk damage. So, for cold weather one can incorporate heating.

In an EV, do the batteries have the same cold charging concern? If so, is battery heating part of an automatic process below a certain temp?

Our motorhome has 400W of solar panels to charge/maintain a 200 amp/hr battery bank. The system has an integral heater (manual off/on operation) to be used at ambient outdoor temperatures below 40F. It facilitates the charging and efficient discharge of the battery bank, though we are seldom using the RV in temperatures below freezing.

Our Prius has an interesting multi-function display screen that comes on when I plug in to charge when ambient temp exceeds 90F or thereabouts. It asks if I will allow the A/C to operate while charging for more efficient and complete charging, though nothing for heat when below 40F.

 

[day_trippr]

I kinda like the coming e-Dodge...

https://carbuzz.com/features/electric-dodge-charger-daytona-srt-what-to-expect

 

[sibelman]

Cold weather adversely affects all cars. EVs perhaps less so than ICEs, according to this possibly biased source.

 

[whoaru99]

Cold weather adversely affects all cars. EVs perhaps less so than ICEs, according to this possible biased source.

It's often a challenge to make true heads or tails of lots of the articles.

Admittedly, I didn't read it through and through, but it struck me somthing like the average age of fleet could play in too.

Average of passenger cars on the road is around 13-14 years, yet EV is just short of 4 years average, per some other article I perused.

 

[Airborneguy]

The effect of cold is real. Range “issues” are real. The problem is when this discussion is framed as an ice vs ev when it is more appropriately framed in NEED.

1000% overwhelmingly without question the EV is ALWAYS more convenient for MOST HOMEOWNERS for DAILY DRIVING NEEDS every single time.

I could sit here and explain every number every which way showing exactly what the effect of the cold was on my car today. Hint: not good. But the key is “not good” is irrelevant without discussing needs. I have zero interest anymore interacting with hell-bent anti-ev’ers who whip out ridiculous scenarios that we all know are bunk. Most people drive 30 miles or so per day. My car can lose 90% of its rated range (it doesn’t) and still accomplish that task.

 

[sibelman]

often a challenge to make true heads or tails

True in so many cases. Crime statistics, dietary science, astrophysics all come to mind. Comparing vehicle types should be fairly straightforward. Correcting for vehicle age seems easy, as such things go.

But bias colors many EV articles (as well as my own posts in this thread ).

 

[sibelman]

My car can lose 90% of its rated range

Yes. In my case, a smaller percentage. But I need my car to go more than 30 miles with fair frequency, so I'd use an even lower number.

Still, with almost 200 miles of range even in our coldest Portland OR winters, I can still do almost anything I ever need to do. I guess I might still rent an ICE for a trip to Seattle in the dead of winter.

 

[whoaru99]

The effect of cold is real. Range “issues” are real. The problem is when this discussion is framed as an ice vs ev when it is more appropriately framed in NEED.

1000% overwhelmingly without question the EV is ALWAYS more convenient for MOST HOMEOWNERS for DAILY DRIVING NEEDS every single time.

I could sit here and explain every number every which way showing exactly what the effect of the cold was on my car today. Hint: not good. But the key is “not good” is irrelevant without discussing needs. I have zero interest anymore interacting with hell-bent anti-ev’ers who whip out ridiculous scenarios that we all know are bunk. Most people drive 30 miles or so per day. My car can lose 90% of its rated range (it doesn’t) and still accomplish that task.

I don't think anyone is arguing the effect of cold, but the 2nd two paragraphs seem a little defensive.

 

[Airborneguy]

Yes. In my case, a smaller percentage. But I need my car to go more than 30 miles with fair frequency, so I'd use an even lower number.

Still, with almost 200 miles of range even in our coldest Portland OR winters, I can still do almost anything I ever need to do. I guess I might still rent an ICE for a trip to Seattle in the dead of winter.

Same here, I was just being obtuse.

I will have owned my Model 3 for 2 full years as of the last week of February. I believe it was the 26th. As of today, I have put 46,000 miles on it. My daily average is insanely higher than the general public’s.

I have NEVER ONCE needed a public charger when I didn’t already plan for it, ie, a true roadtrip. For example, the last 12 months, 84% of my charging was accomplished at home. 16% on roadtrips. 80% of the time, I absolutely enjoyed more convenience than my gas cars. 16% of the time I stopped for a few minutes longer than I would have anyway.

It’s a no-brainer unless you don’t own a home or tow regularly.

 

[Airborneguy]

I don't think anyone is arguing the effect of cold, but the 2nd two paragraphs seem a little defensive.

Owning an EV and being willing to discuss it publicly almost guarantees some level of defensiveness from time to time. I won’t deny that.

 

[Thorrak]

We had to use a public charger “unexpectedly” for the first time yesterday, though I don’t know the contribution the cold actually made to that need vs. my perception of the potential range drop from the cold.

Still: Supercharger was near our first destination, took 15 minutes to charge, and got back home at the end of the day with 35%. Could we have made it without supercharging? Probably. Oh well.