Double IPA Pliny the Elder Clone

[ultravista]

I mash in a voile bag (curtain material - very fine) and a 10 gallon Home Depot water cooler. A giant grain bag (think brewing tea) keeps the wort clean. Never had a stuck mash this way.

I use a Corona type mill and crush (destroy) the grain very fine - lots of flour.

My last batch of PTE came in at 1.079 with a target of 1.072 and estimated efficiency at 75%. If BS is right, 1.079 was is approximately 83%. This with 13 pounds of two row, 1 pound of dextrose, and 6 ounces of C-60.

The Corona and voile bag works well for me.

 

[Resonator]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1442769954.352066.jpg
May not be the right color...
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1442770313.689254.jpg
... but it has the best head retention and lacing I've seen.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

I mash in a voile bag (curtain material - very fine) and a 10 gallon Home Depot water cooler. A giant grain bag (think brewing tea) keeps the wort clean. Never had a stuck mash this way.

I use a Corona type mill and crush (destroy) the grain very fine - lots of flour.

My last batch of PTE came in at 1.079 with a target of 1.072 and estimated efficiency at 75%. If BS is right, 1.079 was is approximately 83%. This with 13 pounds of two row, 1 pound of dextrose, and 6 ounces of C-60.

The Corona and voile bag works well for me.

I bet it's the mill. My LHBS does the milling. Had them 2x mill, one time, a stout and eff jumped 5% alone. Searching the voile bags, seem popular.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

View attachment 304418
may not be the right color...
View attachment 304421
... But it has the best head retention and lacing i've seen.

nice!

 

[gunmetal]

Those hops are there for a reason. Trust the recipe. I'd recommend doing original recipes 1st then tweaking. It is a bitter hop bomb at first, but after a few weeks becomes golden heaven.

I brewed this for a 4th party, and it turned out very good. I live in Ohio and we don't get Pliny, but had a bottle for a side by side taste test. I used 8 ounces of C40 and the color was spot on. The original seemed to have consistent bitterness and the same flavor through the middle of the beer,, with bitterness on the finish as you would expect. Mine had the same bitterness, but the middle had a more complex meld of hops in the middle. Maybe because it was just fresher, who knows. I thought that this would be way hoppier with all of the talk from this beer and the 3 ounces @90min. So this time I changed the hop schedule, mainly because I had no CTZ. I started with two ounces of warrior and one ounce of Chinook @90, did an ounce of Chinook @45 instead of the ctz as well. I thought it was odd that this beer had no additions between 30 and flameout, so I did one ounce of Amarillo @20 and one ounce of centennial @10. Kegging tomorrow night, initially is is very hoppy as expected, but that was 9 days ago when racking to secondary. If think this will be very good once the hops meld.

 

[brewski09]

I brewed this for a 4th party, and it turned out very good. I live in Ohio and we don't get Pliny, but had a bottle for a side by side taste test. I used 8 ounces of C40 and the color was spot on. The original seemed to have consistent bitterness and the same flavor through the middle of the beer,, with bitterness on the finish as you would expect. Mine had the same bitterness, but the middle had a more complex meld of hops in the middle. Maybe because it was just fresher, who knows. I thought that this would be way hoppier with all of the talk from this beer and the 3 ounces @90min. So this time I changed the hop schedule, mainly because I had no CTZ. I started with two ounces of warrior and one ounce of Chinook @90, did an ounce of Chinook @45 instead of the ctz as well. I thought it was odd that this beer had no additions between 30 and flameout, so I did one ounce of Amarillo @20 and one ounce of centennial @10. Kegging tomorrow night, initially is is very hoppy as expected, but that was 9 days ago when racking to secondary. If think this will be very good once the hops meld.

The only way to get Pliny in ohio is to know the right people but I assure you, it is around. I can attest to the hops being a lot more complex when the beer is fresh.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

I brewed this for a 4th party, and it turned out very good. I live in Ohio and we don't get Pliny, but had a bottle for a side by side taste test. I used 8 ounces of C40 and the color was spot on. The original seemed to have consistent bitterness and the same flavor through the middle of the beer,, with bitterness on the finish as you would expect. Mine had the same bitterness, but the middle had a more complex meld of hops in the middle. Maybe because it was just fresher, who knows. I thought that this would be way hoppier with all of the talk from this beer and the 3 ounces @90min. So this time I changed the hop schedule, mainly because I had no CTZ. I started with two ounces of warrior and one ounce of Chinook @90, did an ounce of Chinook @45 instead of the ctz as well. I thought it was odd that this beer had no additions between 30 and flameout, so I did one ounce of Amarillo @20 and one ounce of centennial @10. Kegging tomorrow night, initially is is very hoppy as expected, but that was 9 days ago when racking to secondary. If think this will be very good once the hops meld.

Nothing like a successful PTE! Congratulations! I'm in experimental land so anyone's guess..

 

[arbadarchi]

So I've had Pliny 3 times now. Had it this weekend, and once again I didn't care for it. It tastes like all pine, no malt, and very dry...

I understand why people think it's so great, the execution is great... You are hit with bitter yet smooth piney hops and it fades fast, however I'm finding I wish it had a touch more malty finish. I'm wondering if i might enjoy it better with us04 or something that will finish less dry?

 

[brewski09]

So I've had Pliny 3 times now. Had it this weekend, and once again I didn't care for it. It tastes like all pine, no malt, and very dry...

I understand why people think it's so great, the execution is great... You are hit with bitter yet smooth piney hops and it fades fast, however I'm finding I wish it had a touch more malty finish. I'm wondering if i might enjoy it better with us04 or something that will finish less dry?

I question the freshness of your Pliny (only because I get what you are saying off not super fresh Pliny). Even a month old will give you this IMHO.

I'd say you need a touch more specialty malts or maybe a higher mash temp to get the maltose character you are looking for instead of a less attenuation yeast. You could go with a more malt forward yeast too, but then you'll lose hop aromatics.

 

[Resonator]

I question the freshness of your Pliny (only because I get what you are saying off not super fresh Pliny). Even a month old will give you this IMHO.

I'd say you need a touch more specialty malts or maybe a higher mash temp to get the maltose character you are looking for instead of a less attenuation yeast. You could go with a more malt forward yeast too, but then you'll lose hop aromatics.

Agreed. I've had Pliny on tap that was a bit old and it wasn't that flavorful, but I've had some that were bottled a week before I opened them and were absolutely amazing. Pliny is all about freshness and keeping them cool to get all of its hop flavor.

Also agree with adding more specialty malt instead of changing the yeast.

So I've had Pliny 3 times now. Had it this weekend, and once again I didn't care for it. It tastes like all pine, no malt, and very dry...

Just out of curiosity do you live closer to the east coast? I feel like east coast IPAs have a lot more malt flavor than west coast IPAs. It could just be your association/preference for malt in IPAs.

 

[normonster]

So I've had Pliny 3 times now. Had it this weekend, and once again I didn't care for it. It tastes like all pine, no malt, and very dry...

I understand why people think it's so great, the execution is great... You are hit with bitter yet smooth piney hops and it fades fast, however I'm finding I wish it had a touch more malty finish. I'm wondering if i might enjoy it better with us04 or something that will finish less dry?

Yep, Vinnie's likes it dry, thus the low mash temp and corn sugar. If you sub more grain in for the sugar it would be much less dry.

 

[brewski09]

Just out of curiosity do you live closer to the east coast? I feel like east coast IPAs have a lot more malt flavor than west coast IPAs. It could just be your association/preference for malt in IPAs.

I think the Midwest ones do (or at least did) but the east coast ones are usually pretty simple malt bills in my experience, maybe with premium products to get a specific malt taste (except DFH 90 - sweet finishing malt bomb there). With that said, west coast IPAs are probably the lightest you'll find as far as malt profile and low FG go.

 

[arbadarchi]

Resonator, ironically I live 3 hours from Russian River brewery. Most of the breweries around here ride a good balance line. Sierra Nevada is my favorite brewery and they usually have good malt character in their hoppy stuff.

I also might add that I'm the kind of person who is usually let down when I try hyped up beers...

That said I think I'll still give this a try.

 

[ikaris]

Funny I live on the west coast and I think Pliny the Elder is great. Not the best but still great. I hate malty IPAs so it's just a matter of preference. So back on pliny, I just brewed some over a month ago and the bottles finally finished conditioning today. I used the original recipe the beginning of this thread. Many complained it was too bitter. I think it could be even more. I'm really happy with how it turned out. Very piney with a hint of floral in the nose. Smooth, definitely not dry. One of the best DIPAs I've ever brewed.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

...Many complained it was too bitter.

You did well young padawan!

 

[MEPNew2Brew]

I have brewed this recipe, or something very close, several times. I love the stuff and I am an east coast boy that likes me some Bells Two Hearted too.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Got the goods for next Thursday's brew day. Going all fresh hops. Been using 1lb hop I got late last year. Also had LHBS grind a bit finer. Really curious on any efficiency increase.

Edit: using 16lbs maris otter and increasing corn sugar to 1.5lbs to dry out.

View attachment 1443310206293.jpg

 

[Resonator]

Got the goods for next Thursday's brew day. Going all fresh hops. Been using 1lb hop I got late last year. Also had LHBS grind a bit finer. Really curious on any efficiency increase.

Nice. What's the total amount of hops you're using? 13 or 14 oz?

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Nice. What's the total amount of hops you're using? 13 or 14 oz?

13 as is. May add 1oz extra Columbus for more bitter..we'll see.

 

[Resonator]

13 as is. May add 1oz extra Columbus for more bitter..we'll see.

Nice. I'm probably going to try using 2oz of warrior for my 90min hops next time instead of the cascade. Almost want to try making a younger clone with ~21oz of hops haha. It's never too bitter for me, unless it's tannin bitter/astringent taste

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Nice. I'm probably going to try using 2oz of warrior for my 90min hops next time instead of the cascade. Almost want to try making a younger clone with ~21oz of hops haha. It's never too bitter for me, unless it's tannin bitter/astringent taste

Funny you say that! Just tonight I started monitoring the PTY clone thread. Not sure about 4 dry hop additions. I have 2oz of 1yr old Warrior myself, still in its sealed package. Maybe good time to use it?

 

[Resonator]

Funny you say that! Just tonight I started monitoring the PTY clone thread. Not sure about 4 dry hop additions. I have 2oz of 1yr old Warrior myself, still in its sealed package. Maybe good time to use it?

Sounds like it may be fate.

 

[TxBigHops]

In the picture of mine, one sees the temp controller, SCT1000. The T/C is in kettle with the fermenter bucket and filled to the rim with water. I have a Home Depot bought fountain pump with tubing going in and out of the kettle to an ice water filled cooler with a copper coil. I have to replenish the ice 2x a day with 6 trays or so. I've had no issues controlling to 61F. Lots of words so here's another picture.

PianoMan, I thought you might enjoy seeing my new setup, inspired by the one you posted above. It's working fantastically, and I'm very thankful to you for steering me in this direction. I posted the following thread to describe how I put it together.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=545149

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Tx, please post the inside temps during fermentation when your able. I'm very curious the delta to the surrounding water. Looks like you 1 up'ed it! Thanks for sharing!

 

[TxBigHops]

Tx, please post the inside temps during fermentation when your able. I'm very curious the delta to the surrounding water. Looks like you 1 up'ed it! Thanks for sharing!

I answered you in the other thread. I've jacked this one too much as it is!

 

[Resonator]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1443558654.475205.jpg
About to start another PTE clone. Third time's the charm.

So pretty much same as MoreBeer! kit, but replaced the 2 oz of magnum with 2 oz of 15% AA warrior.

Only going to add in the DME and maltodextrin at the beginning of boil or possibly @60 min -- trying to keep the color light. May also throw in another pound of briess Pilsen light DME to bump it up a bit, and to make it so it's 2 lbs extract for 2.5 gal water. Also, adding the LME @15 min.

Thinking about adding in an oz of mosaic, but I'll probably save it for my Belgian Tripel IPA. Maybe use the magnum in that one too.

If anyone has any suggestions let me know soon haha.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1443559348.183721.jpg
In case someone needs to see the recipe

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Besides beer swapping??

 

[Resonator]

Besides beer swapping??

Like brewing something else? Or trading Pliny?

I brewed a blonde and saison recently, and I'm brewing a Belgian tripel IPA after I bottle one of them.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1443583632.879572.jpg
Gravity sample. OG came in at 1.081 with the extra lb of Pilsen DME.

I feel like the LME was a bit burnt or something. It seemed really dark for "ultralight" LME -- its was dark reddish Amber -- and it smelled pretty toasted. I added it at 10 min with the corn sugar.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Like brewing something else? Or trading Pliny?

I brewed a blonde and saison recently, and I'm brewing a Belgian tripel IPA after I bottle one of them.

View attachment 306592
Gravity sample. OG came in at 1.081 with the extra lb of Pilsen DME.

I feel like the LME was a bit burnt or something. It seemed really dark for "ultralight" LME -- its was dark reddish Amber -- and it smelled pretty toasted. I added it at 10 min with the corn sugar.

Be cool have others' clones.

I'd send that pic to the suppler maybe get a refund.

 

[Resonator]

Be cool have others' clones.

I'd send that pic to the suppler maybe get a refund.

Yea, I may send an email to MoreBeer! about the LME.

Haha, I'm just using PTE to fine tune my brewing process. Plus, it makes it a lot cheaper than actually buying Pliny. I plan on making other clones once I have had them and have something to compare it to.

Plus, I have to decide if I could drink 5 gallons of the stuff I make. I thought about making a hard root beer, but after having 4 of them back to back the other day, I don't think I could stomach all that sugar.

I need to get some heady topper, zombie dust, gum ball head, and some others to try. Or just start making some SMaSH beers and figure out which hops I really like.