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Double IPA Pliny the Elder Clone

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Tommydee

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Ok, brewed this last weekend, went great, hit 1.072 exact. But I didn t think through dry hop plan while on vacation! Hit her with a nice big starter of WLP 090 SD super yeast), and at day 8 fermentation, it's already at FG of 1.015. Went at 67 in chamber. Drinking the sample now with dinner, and it's the best beer I've made so far.

Based on where I am and travel plans, I'm going to mod the dry hop plan, and cut fermentation short from 4 weeks in recipe by a few days. Going to drop the firs dry hop tomorrow at noon, on day 9. Then I'll be back home on day 21. Then I'll hit it with the 2nd dry hop, raise it up to 70 F and keg on day 25.

So I'll be short 3 days, and 1st dry hop will be 16 days instead of 12. 2nd dry hop as planned. I think this will make a better, fresher beer than the alternative, which is to wait till I get back to start first dry hop on day 21, and have it go for nearly 5 weeks prior to kegging. I'm not in a huge rush, so I'll do whatever makes the beer taste better. I can condition in the keg.

I've read somewhere about the back end of primary being an ideal time, and that's where I am as of today, so instinct tells me to start tomorrow.

Any advice, dry hop now, or Friday after next, would be appreciated.

Damn, this hydro sample is good!
To close the loop, ended up doing 1/2 the dry hop load for 16 days, the other half for 5 days. Used a pliney pack from farmhouse, so the hops are per the RR homebrewing recipe, not the brew sheet posted here. It's really really good, except I had a lousy yield transferring to the keg, since I managed to clog my transfer line with all the hops:ban:
 

dschiller

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Would it be too crazy to use Crystal 20 instead of Crystal 45 or 40? There is a flavor difference, too, between these, right? Not just color. For me, I think the Crystal 45 introduces too much color AND too much caramel. Or maybe I'm doing something else that is making this not quite right.
 

grassfeeder

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Would it be too crazy to use Crystal 20 instead of Crystal 45 or 40? There is a flavor difference, too, between these, right? Not just color. For me, I think the Crystal 45 introduces too much color AND too much caramel. Or maybe I'm doing something else that is making this not quite right.
Nope. I'd do exactly what you're going. Hell, I'd honestly drop the crystal all together but thats me.
 

Dcpcooks

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Nope. I'd do exactly what you're going. Hell, I'd honestly drop the crystal all together but thats me.

We have a national BJCP judge in my club. He suggested dropping the crystal all together. I made a batch without the malt and the color was really close to the original. We didn't see a drop in flavor but it did attenuate a bit better.
 

dschiller

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Thanks for the feedback on the crystal reduction/elimination. Someone told me that Russian River's "secret" to getting Pliny's crispness is due to how they carbonate the beer. Does anyone know if there is any truth to that? Is there something a homebrewer can do to get a drier/crisper finish? I don't think the late edition corn sugar alone gets you there.
 

stickyfinger

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a large dose of gypsum adds a drying effect on flavor. try 150ppm gypsum. also, more dry hops tends to lend to a perception of dryness in my experience. lower pH perhaps too?
 

MMJfan

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a large dose of gypsum adds a drying effect on flavor. try 150ppm gypsum. also, more dry hops tends to lend to a perception of dryness in my experience. lower pH perhaps too?
I will 2nd this! I just started using gypsum for my IPA's and I can attest that it really does make a difference in enhancing the hop profile of the beers. I'm not into doing water profiles but my city water is pretty neutral and I've been able to tell a difference using just 1-2 tbsp. per 5 gal. batch added to my mash.
 

dschiller

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I was at Russian River Brewing Company earlier this year and they said that they have switched to using Magnum for their bittering hops. I've done 5 variations of the recipe and although I am making getting pretty close to the Pliny flavor, every time my beer is more sweet than dry. It turns out this way regardless of whether or not I add late addition corn sugar. I'm wondering if my 152-154F mash temperature is too high. Palmer's book (end of Section 14.5) says that a higher mash temperature results in a sweeter and more full bodied beer, whereas a lower mash temperature results in a drier but thinner bodied beer. Do you think I should significantly reduce my mash temperature, and if so, how low should I go?
 

crusader1612

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I was at Russian River Brewing Company earlier this year and they said that they have switched to using Magnum for their bittering hops. I've done 5 variations of the recipe and although I am making getting pretty close to the Pliny flavor, every time my beer is more sweet than dry. It turns out this way regardless of whether or not I add late addition corn sugar. I'm wondering if my 152-154F mash temperature is too high. Palmer's book (end of Section 14.5) says that a higher mash temperature results in a sweeter and more full bodied beer, whereas a lower mash temperature results in a drier but thinner bodied beer. Do you think I should significantly reduce my mash temperature, and if so, how low should I go?
Try using the mash temp suggestion as your stroke temp. You'll end up under it.
 

VirginiaHops1

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I had a real Pliny for the first time earlier this summer. Honestly, I wasn't that impressed based on it's reputation as the greatest IPA in the world. Just tasted like a solid DIPA, but nothing about it wowed me. I live on the east coast, a friend had it shipped to him by someone who lives out west so maybe it lost some of it's freshness. I'm probably going to give this clone recipe a shot soon and see how that turns out.
 

The_Glue

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I had a real Pliny for the first time earlier this summer. Honestly, I wasn't that impressed based on it's reputation as the greatest IPA in the world. Just tasted like a solid DIPA, but nothing about it wowed me. I live on the east coast, a friend had it shipped to him by someone who lives out west so maybe it lost some of it's freshness. I'm probably going to give this clone recipe a shot soon and see how that turns out.
As far as i know it got it's reputation like 10 years ago, other breweries had enough time to copy it and then better it.
 

VWBug5000

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As far as i know it got it's reputation like 10 years ago, other breweries had enough time to copy it and then better it.
Agreed. At the time, PTE was the best thing ever, however I've had plenty of similarly tasty (and remarkably similar) beers from other breweries over the last couple years. Imitation is indeed the sincerest form of flattery.

Thank you Russian River for raising the IPA bar above the lazy IPA's that Sierra Nevada produces!!
 

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I recently got an extract morebeer PTE kit gifted to me. I've made this kit before per the instructions but I wanted to try the updated version that PianoMan posted a while back (#544).

It's also similar to this recipe... http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2015/10/pliny-elder-40.html

Using the hops from the kit with the addition of Amarillo, I've rounded up the hops to .5 oz increments. With these adjustments, could I get a critique of the new version? Also, I think I'll add the majority of the lme at FO.

9lbs ultralight lme (all but 20ish% @ FO)
1lb dextrose, FO
.5lb maltodextrin, FO
6oz C60 (steep)
1 oz Magnum @90 (thinking of adding 2 oz from the kit but it greatly increases the IBUs because of the late addition lme)
.5 oz CTZ @90
.5 oz Amarillo @45
1.5 oz Simcoe @30
Whirlpool 1 oz ea Cascade, Centennial, Amarillo, and Simcoe @145F for 20 min.
Single dry hop for 4 days
3 oz Simcoe
2 oz Cascade
.5 oz Amarillo
1 oz CTZ

Thanks!
 

VirginiaHops1

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Well, I went to brew this today and when I was measuring out grains preparing to mash in I realized I didn't have enough 2 row. Doh. I already had my water measured out and everything ready to go so I just used some Pearl I had on hand to fill the gap. My grain bill was supposed to have 89% 2 row, ended up with 73% 2 row and 16% pearl. Oh well won't be the exact clone but hopefully will still make a really good beer
 

Iseneye

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I'm brewing this for the first time in a few weeks. My recipe for my system called for a total of 150 grams of Amarillo (5.3 Oz) but they only had a pack of 200 grams so gave it to me for the same price as 150. Can anyone recommend where to put the additional 1.8 Oz, if at all? I'm thinking of throwing it into flameout as there is already plenty in dry hop.
 
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I’ve been using this base recipe and playing with it for my home IPA almost monthly. I love it, but I also love messing with the hop bill and ABV.

I have no idea what the original tastes like, but I like what I have made based on it.
 

VirginiaHops1

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Well, I went to brew this today and when I was measuring out grains preparing to mash in I realized I didn't have enough 2 row. Doh. I already had my water measured out and everything ready to go so I just used some Pearl I had on hand to fill the gap. My grain bill was supposed to have 89% 2 row, ended up with 73% 2 row and 16% pearl. Oh well won't be the exact clone but hopefully will still make a really good beer
I'll update on mine. It turned out pretty good. I had Pliny once but it was 5-6 months ago so almost impossible to compare the tastes that far apart. Mine certainly wasn't as good though and had some kind of sweeter malty flavor in the background though, maybe the pearl malt. For all the hops that went in and calculated IBU it didn't turn out overly bitter, although some people though it was pretty bitter. I thought it was pretty well balanced. May try again down the road.
 

VirginiaHops1

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I might try this or a variation of it again soon. After brewing nothing but pilsners and hazy IPAs pretty much all of 2019 I want to switch it up. This might wreck my palate now though. I looked at my recipe sheet from when I did it last and although it didn't taste crazy bitter back then it had 275 theoretical IBUs :no:
 

NickTheGreat

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I brewed this on Saturday. OG was a little low at 1.063. And I probably mashed a little high.

But I've never had PTE so maybe I won't know any better? Either way, the warm, flat hydrometer sample was super bitter. I think in a good way?!?!
 

VWBug5000

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The abundant dryhopping will balance out the bitterness with all the aromatics. There is a great balance between the maltiness and bitterness in the original. It doesn't taste like it has over 100 IBU at all, in terms of bitterness, but you should definitely taste all of the floral/pine/citrus notes after the dryhopping is done.
 

k-os

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I just added the second set of dry hops to match batch. Will let it sit for another 3 days or so and then keg it up. My OG came in at 1.068 (three points low from planned).
 

stickyfinger

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This thread is making me crave a WC bitter IPA lol. I have 5 NEIPAs on tap. Need some bitter pine in my life!
 

JLeather

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Here's my stab at the PTE. I've never had the original, but I'll say this might be the best IPA I've brewed. I did cut back on the crystal (personal preference). TBH I think I want to up the second dry-hop a tad next time, but I can tell this is gonna go quick in spite of the ABV. Also this is no gelatin fining, just a cold crash.

IMG_20200831_210937948.jpg
 

bguzz

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Yes, please share and if you could detail your water chemistry that would be appreciated!

love the label btw!,
 

anteater8

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I wasn't attempting a Pliny clone, but my most recent west coast IPA ended up being one of my best and most 'Pliny-like' so I figured I'd share. Great balance of grapefruit, pine and peach coming through strong in the aroma and flavor. Well balanced bitterness, but slightly dry with the high sulfate probably accentuating the low F.G. a bit too much. I'll throw some crystal malt in there next time, the Vienna just doesn't quite add enough character. I also want to try getting some CTZ in the mix, although I think Simcoe/Amarillo/Centennial is tough to beat. Also need to try this with American ale yeast.

11.25 lb 2 row
2.9 lb Vienna
0.5 lb Sugar

1 oz Warrior 60 min (42 IBU)
1 oz Simcoe 10 min (13 IBU)
1 oz Simcoe 0 min
1 oz Amarillo 0 min
1 oz Centennial 0 min
1 oz Simcoe Whirlpool (185 for 15 min)
0.5 oz Amarillo Whirlpool (185 for 15 min)
0.5 oz Centennial Whirlpool (185 for 15 min)
1 oz Simcoe Whirlpool (160 for 15 min)
0.5 oz Amarillo Whirlpool (160 for 15 min)
0.5 oz Centennial Whirlpool (160 for 15 min)
2 oz Amarillo Dry Hop #1
2 oz Centennial Dry Hop #1
2 oz Simcoe Dry Hop #2
2 oz Centennial Dry Hop #2

Imperial House Yeast

250:50 sulfate:chloride

O.G. = 1.062
F.G. = 1.007
ABV = 7.2%
 

Beermeister32

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BARNEY THE WELDER

WATER PROFILE

CA 74.5
MG 5
NA 9.4
CL 50
SO4 150
HCO 0
MASH 5.2 pH ADJUST WITH LACTIC ACID AS NEEDED

DE-OXYGENATE BREWING WATER USING ¼ PACKET OF DRY US-05 AND 2 TABLESPOONS CORN SUGAR TAKEN FROM INGREDIENT LIST APPROXIMATELY 15 MINUTES BEFORE MASH. DE-OXYGENATE SPARGE AND LATER ADDITION WATER AT THE SAME TIME USING SAME PROCEDURE. ADD ¼ TEASPOON AMYLASE ENZYME INTO MASH WATER. PRE-BOIL VOLUME 7.5 GALLONS, POST BOIL VOLUME 6 GALLONS WITH 90 MINUTE BOIL.

INGREDIENTS (RUN GRAIN THROUGH MILL 2 TIMES)
5 LBS PILSNER MALT
4.25 LBS 2-ROW MALT
2 OZ CRYSTAL 60
4 OZ WHEAT (FOR HEAD RETENTION & LACING)
1.5 LB CORN SUGAR (DEXTROSE) (LATE ADDITION)
1.25 LB PILSEN LIGHT DME (LATE ADDITION)

MASH PROFILE - MASH PROFILE IS TO PROVIDE A DRY FINISH TO THE BEER
COVER MASH WITH PLASTIC FILM TO AVOID O2 EXPOSURE. CAREFUL OCCASIONAL STIRRING IS OK, COVER BACK UP WITH PLASTIC WHEN DONE

80F DOUGH IN
122F PROTEIN REST 30 MIN
130F 30 MIN
149F 60 MIN
154F 30 MIN
149F LET KETTLE TEMP DROP BACK TO 149, HOLD FOR 30 MIN
RINSE GRAINS WITH UNHEATED SPARGE WATER
GO STRAIGHT TO BOIL, MASH OUT NOT NEEDED. TOP UP KETTLE TO 7.5 GALLONS, DO FULL VOLUME BOIL.
90 MIN BOIL.

BOIL / HOP SCHEDULE
2 OZ WARRIOR 90 MIN
2 OZ CHINOOK 90 MIN
1 OZ SIMCOE 45 MIN
1 OZ COLUMBUS 30 MIN
2.25 OZ CENTENNIAL 0 MIN
1.5 OZ SIMCOE 0 MIN
WHIRFLOCK AT 15 MIN, YEAST NUTRIENT AT 10 MIN.

DRY HOP SCHEDULE – ADD GLASS MARBLES TO DRY HOP BAG TO SUBMERGE
3.25 OZ COLUMBUS 3 DAYS
1.75 OZ CENTENNIAL 3 DAYS
2.25 OZ SIMCOE 3 DAYS

FERMENTATION
RUN FIRST 5 GALLONS CLEARER WORT INTO FERMENTER, RUN FINAL GALLON OF TRUB LADEN WORT INTO A GLASS JUG FOR FERMENTING SEPARATELY OR FOR USE AS STARTER ON FUTURE BATCHES.

HORNINDAL KVIEK YEAST – THIS HELPS FLAVOR PROFILE RATHER THAN USING US-05
ONE POUCH, PITCH AT 85F
OXYGENATE WORT WITH DIFFUSION STONE OR SIMILAR
FERMENT AT 85F 3-5 DAYS

DRY HOP / KEGGING / BOTTLING
HANG DRY HOP CHARGE IN KEG IN ADVANCE, CLOSE KEG AND PURGE WITH C02
OXYGEN-LESS TRANSFER TO KEG USE CO2 GAS TO TRANSFER TO KEG
WARM ½ CUP DISTILLED WATER IN MICROWAGE TO 165F ADD 1 TEASPOON GELATIN. TRANSFER TO KEG THROUGH VENT HOLE.
DISSOLVE 1 TEASPOON ASCORBIC ACID IN ½ CUP ROOM TEMPERATURE DISTILLED WATER AND TRANSFER TO KEG THROUGH VENT HOLE.
DO FINAL PURGE OF ANY REMAINING CO2 USING 15 CYCLES OF CHARGING WITH CO2 AND RELEASING PRESSURE THROUGH KEG DISCHARGE VENT. 3 DAY DRY HOP.

IF BOTTLING IS SELECTED, USE 6 BREWERS BEST CONDITIONING PILLS PER 16.9 oz/500mL BOTTLE OR EQUIVALENT. BOTTLE DIRECTLY OFF KEG, WITH 1 LB C02 PRESSURE USING A PICNIC TAP ATTACHED TO KEG OUTLET USING FLEX TUBING. ATTACH A 10" LENGTH OF RACKING CANE TO THE PICNIC TAP OUTLET FOR FILLING. DO NOT TRANSFER TO BOTTLING BUCKET TO AVOID OXYGEN INGRESS. VENT UNDERSIDE OF CAP / 1" HEADSPACE WITH CO2 PRIOR TO CAPPING WITH O2 ABSORBING CAPS.

OG 1.073
FG 1.013
ABV 7.94%
 
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couchsending

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So you’re saying a Kviek yeast is critical to getting the right flavor profile of Pliny?

A beer that’s clearly fermented with 001 or 1056 or something similar....
 

bguzz

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Wow....awesome detail...thanks. I’m trying this one as defined...been wanting to try kviek. Thanks!
 
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