Double IPA Pliny the Elder Clone

[VSGLS1]

60 bbl

 

[mkirkland]

Here's an absolute accurate recipe from a contract brewer of Russian River. You won't get any closer than this

:rockin:

 

[Joesl8]

Here's an absolute accurate recipe from a contract brewer of Russian River. You won't get any closer than this

Awesome...now I need to figure how to break it down to 5 gal. Thanks my man!

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Well here's my calculations based on an extract utilization formula I found...GramsExtract=(IBU*hectoliters@End of boil)/(.35*10). Solved for IBU =(53), then added Warrior, in Beersmith 2, until IBU was achieved.

Used Beersmith2 with 62% efficiency at 5.8 gallons to fermenter with 90min boil. Don't see how the 70IBU in posted recipe sheet is possible with these amount of hops.

Other hops/grain bill were a simple calculation; 1300gallons/5.8gallons=224-factor so CTZ at 90min for example is 7*16/224=.5oz.

10.25gallons total.
5.75 strike

OG=1.072
IBU= 170
SRM=6.1
ABV=7.8%

Rahr = 17.1 lbs
c60 = 4.6oz (edit.. from lbs)
Corn Sugar = 14.4 oz

Warrior @ 90min = 1.1oz
CTZ @ 90min = .5oz

Amarillo @ 45min= .6oz

Simcoe @ 30min = 1.4oz

Cascade, Centennial, Amarillo, Simcoe @ WPool for 20min = 1oz each

Dry Hopping (Wasn't sure the days so just have dry hopping at 5 days each)
Dry1:
Simcoe = 1.6oz
Cascade = 1.25oz
CTZ = .70oz

Dry2:
Simcoe = 1.4oz
Cascade= 1.0oz
Amarillo/CTZ = .5oz each

Anyone else??

Edit: added extract formula found and recalculated to End of Boil volume. Also this is about 14oz of hops, my other calculation, using a smaller factor, make it around 22oz, and the grain bill would be way high.

 

[crusader1612]

Well here's my calculations based on an extract utilization formula I found...GramsExtract=(IBU*hectoliters@End of boil)/(.35*10). Solved for IBU (53), then added Warrior until IBU was achieved.

Used Beersmith2 with 62% efficiency at 5.8 gallons to fermenter with 90min boil. Don't see how the 70IBU in posted recipe sheet is possible with these amount of hops.

Other hops/grain bill were a simple calculation; 1300gallons/5.8gallons=224-factor so CTZ at 90min for example is 7*16/224=.5oz.

OG=1.072
IBU= 170
SRM=6.1
ABV=7.8%

Rahr = 17.1 lbs
c60 = .48 lbs
Corn Sugar = 14.4 oz

Warrior @ 90min = 1.1oz
CTZ @ 90min = .5oz

Amarillo @ 45min= .6oz

Simcoe @ 30min = 1.4oz

Cascade, Centennial, Amarillo, Simcoe @ WPool for 20min = 1oz each

Dry Hopping (Wasn't sure the days so just have dry hopping at 5 days each)
Dry1:
Simcoe = 1.6oz
Cascade = 1.25oz
CTZ = .70oz

Dry2:
Simcoe = 1.4oz
Cascade= 1.0oz
Amarillo/CTZ = .5oz each

Anyone else??

Edit: added extract formula found and recalculated to End of Boil volume. Also this is about 14oz of hops, my other calculation, using a smaller factor, make it around 22oz, and the grain bill would be way high.

Very interesting. Looks good though. If u drop your warrior a touch that may help?

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

I like FWH (simcoe/Amarillo) myself and tend to even hop usage up to 1oz increments anyway so slight changes will be made. Friends are heading out to Ca to pick up 20 bottles next month. Planning on brewing Thursday to be ready for side by side comparison.

What stands out to me is the 45min Amarillo and Cascade usage I've not seen in any PTE clone recipe...not that I've came across every one.

 

[The_Glue]

Is that true that Pliny nowadays measures around 60IBUs?

 

[Joesl8]

Anyone tried or heard of the Morebeer clone? A friend at work ordered the kit so I'm curious about it now. Supposed to be exact.

 

[Resonator]

Anyone tried or heard of the Morebeer clone? A friend at work ordered the kit so I'm curious about it now. Supposed to be exact.

It's in my primary now. Seems like a pretty good clone of the original. Comes with 14 oz of hops.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1439968859.396602.jpg

 

[ultravista]

I have tried the Morebeer kit numerous times. Very good but compared to the real brew sheet, somewhat different.

PTE does not FWH, has Amarillo, has no CaraPils, and is mashed higher.

The PTE brewsheet is 2015 gallons (65 BBL * 31 gallons).

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

I have tried the Morebeer kit numerous times. Very good but compared to the real brew sheet, somewhat different.

PTE does not FWH, has Amarillo, has no CaraPils, and is mashed higher.

The PTE brewsheet is 2015 gallons (65 BBL * 31 gallons).

Saw that. Assumed 1300 was after boil. Running with the calculated recipe. Just got 8oz fresh hops to go with some I have.

 

[NewJersey]

Here's an absolute accurate recipe from a contract brewer of Russian River. You won't get any closer than this

Anyone care to dumb this down for me to make 10 gallons?
Thank you,

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Anyone care to dumb this down for me to make 10 gallons?
Thank you,

Making the 5.8 gallon version as I type. Beersmith will convert it if you're setup. Or you can multiply everything by 2 as my 5.8 will equal 5 in the end.

As a side note, discussed this recipe with LHBS yesterday. Big brewers are the same as small. They use what's on hand to get required results. So slight variations are always possible. This is just one of those variations I suspect.

 

[NewJersey]

Pianoman, how's it looking?

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Fermenting away at 61F. Used whirlfloc tablets for first time. Got 4.75gal of completely clear wort! Had about 1.25 left in kettle, but couldn't get myself to "dirty" it up with the 7oz hop ball at bottom of kettle. Have some ideas to solve the waste issue. Came out at 1.071. Another week for dry hop/FG measure.

Edit: My pre-boil gravity was higher then calculated so I dropped from 14.4oz to 4oz (thought it was 8oz, but finally looked at my brew sheet) corn sugar. Also had more wort at EOB as reason for slightly lower OG. And I always use FWH so did slight modifications myself. Need REAL Pliny to compare! 😜

View attachment 1440442058339.jpg

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Remove primary/secondary fermentation from your brewing vocabulary unless fermenting with one strain then again with a second. Gone are the days of "secondary".

Ferment until gravity is reached which may be 7 to 14 days. With 001, mine usually reaches terminal gravity within 7 days. I leave it rest and clean-up for another 7 days, move the beer off the yeast (into a keg) and begin the dry hop process. I drop hop at room temperature for the first 7 days, then add the second dose of dry hops for an additional 7 days - 14 days total. Some go longer while others shorter.

I am the only one drinking my beer at home so 5 gallons lasts a while. With Pliny, and other hop forward beers, I separate my drop hopping by maybe a month since my brews last 2-3 months. The second round of drop hopping is somewhere near the mid-point of the keg. Think it of as 'refreshing' the aroma and flavor profile that would have otherwise waned over time.

Ultra, can you detail out your dry hop technique? Strainer type/pellet or leaf? Thanks!

 

[ultravista]

PianoMan - until I clean-out the two More Beer Pliny kits in the freezer, I am using the pellet hops from the kit + Amarillo (pellets).

I did buy a can of hop extract and will use that moving forward for the bittering addition, about 10 ML. From then on, it will still be pellet but only for flavor and aroma, both in the kettle and dry hop.

For dry hopping, I use a Corny Keg Dry Hopper in the keg and 6" Hop Spider in the kettle - both are 300 micron and from Utah Bio Diesel Supply. Great company, awesome people, and outstanding craftsmanship.

www.utahbiodieselsupply.com

Pliny calls for two post-fermentation dry hop doses, 5 and 12 (or somewhere close to that) and is meant to be consumed fresh. As the only beer drinker in the house, I may split my dry hop into full keg and half keg. That way I freshen-up the flavor and aroma half-way through the keg. It makes sense in my head but haven't done it yet.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Ultra, on your corny keg hopper you tie a string I take it for retrieving? No issues with sealing?

Also, i have the same hop spider, but it seems the wort proteins clog it. I've wondered if all the oils are getting utilized. Sounds like you see no problem. Maybe I'm stressing over nothing.

Same you..i'm it for the IIPA drinkers. Got a RIS drinker here.

 

[milldoggy]

Ultra, on your corny keg hopper you tie a string I take it for retrieving? No issues with sealing?

Also, i have the same hop spider, but it seems the wort proteins clog it. I've wondered if all the oils are getting utilized. Sounds like you see no problem. Maybe I'm stressing over nothing.

Same you..i'm it for the IIPA drinkers. Got a RIS drinker here.

I have the same hopper, unwaxed plain dental floss works great, still get a seal.

 

[ultravista]

Great question!

I too use dental floss with a small stainless worm clamp attached to the pressure relieve well on the keg lid.

After slowly dumping half a tank of gas, I found that the floss had worked it's way up into the pressure relieve diaphragm when purging O2.

I now have a small swath of voile material covering the relief valve to keep the floss from compromising the seal.

 

[Resonator]

Fermenting away at 61F. Used whirlfloc tablets for first time. Got 4.75gal of completely clear wort! Had about 1.25 left in kettle, but couldn't get myself to "dirty" it up with the 7oz hop ball at bottom of kettle. Have some ideas to solve the waste issue. Came out at 1.071. Another week for dry hop/FG measure.

Edit: My pre-boil gravity was higher then calculated so I dropped from 14.4oz to 4oz (thought it was 8oz, but finally looked at my brew sheet) corn sugar. Also had more wort at EOB as reason for slightly lower OG. And I always use FWH so did slight modifications myself. Need REAL Pliny to compare! [emoji12]

What are you using for temp control? Is it in a fermentation chamber, or is the pot chilling it?

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

I have the same hopper, unwaxed plain dental floss works great, still get a seal.

Thanks for chiming in! That's good to know as I don't have pressure relief on my lids as Ultra does.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

What are you using for temp control? Is it in a fermentation chamber, or is the pot chilling it?

In the picture of mine, one sees the temp controller, SCT1000. The T/C is in kettle with the fermenter bucket and filled to the rim with water. I have a Home Depot bought fountain pump with tubing going in and out of the kettle to an ice water filled cooler with a copper coil. I have to replenish the ice 2x a day with 6 trays or so. I've had no issues controlling to 61F. Lots of words so here's another picture.

View attachment 1440717931951.jpg

 

[TxBigHops]

In the picture of mine, one sees the temp controller, SCT1000. The T/C is in kettle with the fermenter bucket and filled to the rim with water. I have a Home Depot bought fountain pump with tubing going in and out of the kettle to an ice water filled cooler with a copper coil. I have to replenish the ice 2x a day with 6 trays or so. I've had no issues controlling to 61F. Lots of words so here's another picture.

First off, how am I not already subscribed to this!!! Glad I found it. Great stuff everyone!

PianoMan, I like your setup. Been looking to buy a Ferm chamber, but this might do the trick for a lot less money. Maybe with a cube cooler replacing the kettle for better insulation and more water volume. One question, why do you not run you T/C into the wort in the bucket instead of into the water in the kettle? Won't the wort be a little warmer (especially during high krausen) than the water?

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

First off, how am I not already subscribed to this!!! Glad I found it. Great stuff everyone!

PianoMan, I like your setup. Been looking to buy a Ferm chamber, but this might do the trick for a lot less money. Maybe with a cube cooler replacing the kettle for better insulation and more water volume. One question, why do you not run you T/C into the wort in the bucket instead of into the water in the kettle? Won't the wort be a little warmer (especially during high krausen) than the water?

That's a very good question! I've thought about it, but I prefer to keep the bucket sealed. Almost every beer I make is sampled by LHBS guys. They have not detected any off flavors as of yet. They mostly enjoy what is made. There are other's requesting my beer so feel more and more confident about the technique so far. 61f seems to work for most the fermentation.

 

[TxBigHops]

That's a very good question! I've thought about it, but I prefer to keep the bucket sealed. Almost every beer I make is sampled by LHBS guys. They have not detected any off flavors as of yet. They mostly enjoy what is made. There are other's requesting my beer so feel more and more confident about the technique so far. 61f seems to work for most the fermentation.

Thanks for the quick reply! So, to be sure I understand what's going on, the temp controller is in the water and set to turn the pump on when the water rises above 61, right? During the early, vigorous fermentation stage, does the pump run pretty constantly, or only cycle on once in a while? I'm trying to get an idea how long it takes, or how much ice cold water it takes to bring the water in the kettle back below 61. And did I also see you write that you needed to add ice to the cold water twice a day? Seems like the ice would last longer than that. Are you trying to keep the supply water very cold, or just a little colder than 61? Sorry about so many questions. Just trying to determine best practices for something like this.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Tx, I usually start fermentation at 65F for day 1 then drop to 61F for other 3. Go to 65F on day 5. I'm still playing with it.

I'll put an 8 lb bag of ice, in the cooler water bath, on day1 just to get ice water bath temp down quickly. After that, 6 trays of ice every 12hrs keeps the ice bath well below temp needed.

It's cycles relatively quickly, the colder you go the more it needs to cycle depending on ambient temperature. Hope this helps.

Also, the temp controller is not in the water. The T/C..thermal coupler..is in the water, it measures water temp.

 

[Resonator]

In the picture of mine, one sees the temp controller, SCT1000. The T/C is in kettle with the fermenter bucket and filled to the rim with water. I have a Home Depot bought fountain pump with tubing going in and out of the kettle to an ice water filled cooler with a copper coil. I have to replenish the ice 2x a day with 6 trays or so. I've had no issues controlling to 61F. Lots of words so here's another picture.

I kinda thought that's what was going on. Nice solution to a fermentation chamber.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

Dry hopping now. Sample was more like flowers then anything. May have pulled too fast at 1.016, but I tend to be impatient. Especially after a hotdog taste incident back in spring. This formula definitely gives a different flavour then any other clone I've done. Real Pliny should be here Sept 20th. Just in time. Sorry no pics....try to remember during 2nd dry hop.

 

[TxBigHops]

Tx, I usually start fermentation at 65F for day 1 then drop to 61F for other 3. Go to 65F on day 5. I'm still playing with it.

I'll put an 8 lb bag of ice, in the cooler water bath, on day1 just to get ice water bath temp down quickly. After that, 6 trays of ice every 12hrs keeps the ice bath well below temp needed.

It's cycles relatively quickly, the colder you go the more it needs to cycle depending on ambient temperature. Hope this helps.

Also, the temp controller is not in the water. The T/C..thermal coupler..is in the water, it measures water temp.

Thanks for all your help. Looking to put something together soon. Do you recall what the flow rate is on your pump? I'm wanting it to do double duty in an ice water wort chiller. Looking at one that's 66 gph. I assume it sits in the bottom of the kettle and pushes out the warmer water through the wort chiller that you have in the cooler with the ice.

This is my last question here. Just realized I have totally hijacked this Pliny thread. Sorry!