Playing w/yeast... what do I have here?

[snowman]

Yesterday morning I kegged a wheat beer from a secondary and saw lots of interesting stuff in the bottom so I put it in a jar to play around with. After 24 hrs in the refigerator now ...

first pic shows 4 layers.
I assume the top layer must be discardable liquid and I just poured that off.
Under that ... yeast and stuff still in suspension ...?

regarding the 2 layers on the bottom:
The first layer was very liquid, I am using that to prepare a starter. From what I've been reading, I think maybe I could just pitch that as is, but am not brewing today. Well maybe tonight. Anyway I made up some dme wart and pitched some of that in to see what happens.

The very bottom layer was pretty much sticking to the bottom after the upper layers were poured off. I am not sure if this is pure yeast or other sediment/trub .... ? I mixed it with some distilled water and stuck it back in the refrigerator.

Below, from left, the bottom (4th, thickest) layer to which I added some distilled water and put back in the fridge...

middle jar was second layer under the clearer liquid, also back in the fridge.

on right is the 3rd layer, I pitced about 3/4 of that into my starter flask and just put the rest into the middle jar.

Is all this stuff that settles to the bottom usable yeast? Or is the thick stuff on the bottom mostly settled hops... I did put some honey in this batch too fwiw. As it came from the secondary I was surprised to see so much residue but am thinking maybe fermentation kept going for a while there.... it was in the secondary almost 2 weeks then I cold crashed it. Am I on the right track here? Comments appreciated, tia.

 

[eager_brewer]

It is yeast that if properly stored and harvested you can you again. Here is a great article on how to:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/yeast-washing-illustrated-41768/

 

[snowman]

I've read all the articles I can find, now it's the implementation that is raising some questions here ...., like with making a starter. If I were to boil up 5 gal, would I want to make a starter given the apparent quantity of yeast seen in the first pic? Do I need to be concerned with pitching too much? i.e.. given an inch thick layer in the bottom of a quart jar is that layer enough/too much for 5gal?

From what I've read about starters it seems one objective is to increase the yeast cell count above what is found in the pouches and packets... so how much is enough if you have jars of this stuff in the fridge? Saving money on yeast is great, but dme for making starters is not free either. If a jar with some significant quantity of settled yeast is brought to room temp for a couple days won't that be effectively close to having prepared a starter for dry yeast?

I suppose I should just do an experimental run with some quantity of room temp stuff from a jar and be ready to pitch a packet if a good fermentation doesn't start by the next day, but it might be difficult to establish a good approximation of how much is enough or too much from the jars.

 

[Anubis]

No offense but you might be over thinking this. If it were me I ould have poured off the liquid, like you did, then made a small starter to make sure it was viable. I would have thrown in all levels of yeast and trub. Then decant off the exess wort and pitch the starter. But that's me.

You could even split the jar's contents into three then you could make three starters.

 

[devilishprune]

I agree with Anubis, I just pitch the bottom two layers. The top two layers there are: clear wort/water and settling yeast. If you leave it in the fridge for a week or two then you will just have three layers, with the middle layer being the yeast.

The thick crap on the bottom is trub and other stuff, but I don't think that it would be enough to hurt anything in a five gallon batch.

 

[snowman]

Apparently the stuff isn't 'viable' for some reason. This morning there is no sign of activity in the starter I made.... other starters I've made from dry yeast were frothing well after 12 hrs. Guess I'll just try this again when one of my primaries is ready to drain.

 

[devilishprune]

Give it more time than that. At the end of the week, just make sure you have a thick creamy layer of yeast in the jar.

 

[snowman]

I have a thick creamy layer of yeast in the bottom of my starter flask. Tonight I do see signs of a bit of co2 coming off... but nothing like what I expected, will watch for a while. I cooked up 5 gal of a 1.046 IPA this morning, just dumped in a dry yeast packet so now waiting for signs of life there. This batch is a push test, I want to be drinking it in 3 weeks after first day of fermentation.

 

[Calder]

You didn't give much information on the batch that the yeast came from. I would have said that it should have taken off within 12 hours. You know it's healthy because it came from a beer you just made.

Me, this is what I do:

I only take from the primary. The yeast at the bottom of the primary are the ones that did all the work and then flocculated. The secondary has the yeast that has not flocculated. If you continually take from the secondary, I think the strain mutates quicker with successive uses.

Once I've taken the beer off the primary, I pour in a quart of sterile water, swirl it around and empty everything into a couple of quart mason jars. Usually get about 2 quarts. Place in fridge and let settle.

Pour off liquid and add a pint of sterile water. This takes away any remaining fermentables allowing you to store it without continuing to ferment. Now you have about 3 pints of slurry. I separate this into 3 1-pint mason jars and store in the fridge. If used within a month, you can just pitch one of these into a 5 gallon batch without making a starter. If it's more than a month, I usually make a starter to make sure everything is OK.

Make sure everything is sanitized as you use it, and swab all openings with alcohol before pouring from one container to another.