I am In the middle of my second brew day actually trying water chemistry. Bru’n water works perfectly for my very alkaline water with adjustments on my first try which was a porter. Today I’m brewing an IPA and was shooting for 5.38, but pH just came back 5.17? Major problem? Thanks.
Ph too low?
- Thread starter trapae
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
BrewnWKopperKat
ʘ‿ʘ
FWIW, similar topic over in AHA forums (link).
More precisely, the same topic by the same member...
Looks like it was answered there.
jerrylotto
Well-Known Member
You can always add a little NaHCO3 (baking soda) to raise it, biut I don't even measure pH to two significant digits. 5.2 - 5.6 is a perfectly reasonable range.
Maybe real life didn't match the software model. Different grains behave differently. Adjust for it when you make the recipe again.
Or maybe your reading was off - were you using a freshly calibrated pH meter in cooled wort after the mash pH stabilized?
Or maybe your water changed.
Or maybe your reading was off - were you using a freshly calibrated pH meter in cooled wort after the mash pH stabilized?
Or maybe your water changed.
MicroMickey
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2021
- Messages
- 206
- Reaction score
- 228
Your pH is fine. Most people I know don't even check their mash pH and somehow they still make good beer. Your source water pH is not really a big concern based on what the grist does to the mash.
Take a look at this article which will answer many of the questions you have:
https://crescentcitybrewtalk.com/water-iii/
Take a look at this article which will answer many of the questions you have:
https://crescentcitybrewtalk.com/water-iii/
In spirit of this thread, is there a calculator out there designed for adjusting ph on the fly? I use a lot of brewers friend calcs, but specifically for on the fly I haven’t seen. I had a similar situation in my last brew and adjusted on the fly, but kept adding and checking until I got it where I wanted. It would have been nice to know exactly what to put the first time. My water calculated numbers vs actual were off about .3, I’ve noticed that, since using acidualted malt, that the numbers are off and I ‘think’ that I should be scaling my Acidulated malt back by half and ultimately using lactic acid during the mash to compensate if too high.
MicroMickey
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2021
- Messages
- 206
- Reaction score
- 228
John Palmer offers a "R A Worksheet" which can be accessed here:
http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3/understanding-the-mash-ph/residual-alkalinity-and-mash-ph
http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3/understanding-the-mash-ph/residual-alkalinity-and-mash-ph
On the fly, as in during the mash? No, none that I know of.
But if you've been using a calculator and all the minerals and grains were already entered into the calculator already, and you notice a 0.3pH difference, from predicted, by all means add some acid or alkali in the calculator, to correct the prediction, and add that amount to your mash. Just realize, the mash progresses rather fast, by the time you've re-calculated and added your acid (or alkali), most of the mash has probably converted already.
The water gurus recommend taking the mash pH reading at the end of the mash. As all chemistry and reactions have stabilized by then and become more predictable. You would use that reading as your reference of mash pH. Then in your next brew, if needed, correct accordingly and measure again, at the end, and compare the values.
Don't forget you should always measure mash pH at or very close to your meter's calibration temp. Or at least at room temps if it has ATC (Automatic Temperature Correction) built in. That's important, and the way most, if not all mash calculators are constructed. You can cool a (small, 0.5-1 oz) sample quickly by scooping some mash out (from the center) and pouring it into a glass or cup that's been frozen.
Really, download a (free) copy of Bru'nWater and things may become a lot clearer. There are tons of instructions and educational notes included, right on the spreadsheet.
The mash pH changes on it's own throughout the mash. Chasing a moving target seems silly.
For your next beer, do a time course on the mash pH and then you'll know how long it takes for your system to come to equilibrium.
Thank you this makes since. I have only done 5 all grain so far so still dialing in the process. I will be doing my first all grain of a stout soon. Also in spirit of this thread and topic (sorry if this is hyjacking the thread and not helping the original poster), is the ph only important during the mash? After the mash during boil, hop additions, fermenting, not so much? I ask because I am trying to determine if you add specialty grains to a mash or steep after mash before bringing to a boil. I understand specially grains will bring the ph down considerably. Because of this, I assume it is important to steep the specialty grain (black roasted barley in this case) rather than include them in the mash. Otherwise a good amount of additions would be necessary to keep the mash in line. I do start with RO and add salts and acidualted malt per brewers friend mash calculator. Part two of that question would be, does it matter for lighter specialty like Carmel 15-50 as an example?
I add everything to the mash.
Gordon strong likes to add the dark grains just before sparge so that mash pH is unaffected and he doesn't have to do any different water treatments. Read his books to learn more if you'd like to explore that method.
Adding them late may change the flavor contribution, so you'll have to do some trials to dial it in if you want to do that.
Some people shoot for a 5.0 to 5.2 end of boil pH.
Gordon strong likes to add the dark grains just before sparge so that mash pH is unaffected and he doesn't have to do any different water treatments. Read his books to learn more if you'd like to explore that method.
Adding them late may change the flavor contribution, so you'll have to do some trials to dial it in if you want to do that.
Some people shoot for a 5.0 to 5.2 end of boil pH.
Last edited:
I use brun water to get me where I want and then let it go. By the time the temperature stabilizes, you take a sample cool it off and test it most of the conversion is already completed.
I know Palmers 'How to Brew' 4th edition isn't the end all be all but he states to take the pH reading in the first 5-10 minutes (I take mine at 10+ minutes) of the mash and to expect pH to continue to slowly drop over the course of the mash and that conversion happens quick (pg. 341).
This is probably one of those endless debates. Just thought I'd point that out.
Last edited:
For me, it doesn't really matter if my mash pH is 5.44 or 5.33, as long as it is in the general "good" range I don't worry. I aim for 5.4 at the end of the mash, and I don't think I've ever had it be even 0.1 off from that. I like waiting until the end for ease of use, and it works for me.
Like most things with homebrewing, it comes down to experience with your own system. If you get consistent results at 10 minutes, and you set up you process around that and get good beer, that's all that really matters.
You are right as long as you make good beer it's fine. I'm just someone who follows John Palmer's research and advice and it has worked for me.
