Other Half Daydream (oat cream IPAs) - all grain clone attempts

[ApolloMC]

Burlington ale is a connan strain. So is A04 and A24 is a blend of a connan strain. All connan strains are all temp specific to be able to gain the esters and need to be under pitched to get them. You can either ferment at a constant 63*f but I personally don’t get as much esters with the temp as I do with the temp drive I use. Pitch 68 let it free rise to 72ish in the next day and a half then push it to 74 for the remainder of highly active fermentation. Then let it natural fall to the 70-72 and hold it there until you drop the yeast or dryhop

I was never all that convinced that Burlington Ale was conan. At the bottom of this thread, there is a quoted email from a White Labs rep, saying it's "Conan Like". They also note in that thread that the temp range and flocc characteristics for WLP095 are different than those noted from other yeast manufacturers, all of which leads one to believe it's not quite conan. The WL rep also notes that strains do evolve over time, so it's very likely they all came from the same source at one time.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/wlp095-sposed-to-be-conan.571011/

At the end of the day I bet it would do just fine. When I used it in the past I was bottling and my water chemistry wasn't quite on point yet, so that all affected the outcome. Probably more than the yeast did I bet (I know, bottling an NEIPA is a sin, I keg now). One of these days maybe i'll do a split batch and try WLP095 next to an Omega or Imperial strain.

Speaking of Imperial, I'll have to wait until the colder months and order some. None of the local shops near me carry it.

 

[Dgallo]

Speaking of Imperial, I'll have to wait until the colder months and order some. None of the local shops near me carry it.

A24 is a terrific yeast. If you’re in a good morebeer location I know it can be 2 days and they willl ice pack it.

 

[BeerFst]

assuming Morristown is Morristown NJ consider ordering from https://www.fermentednj.com/

They do pretty great sales as their yeast reaches its life, i just got two packs of imperial for 5 each, a month left on the best by date. went ahead and got the ice pack and the special envelope for a dollar or two extra. it was 2 day shipping, and the yeast showed up with no issue to Long Island

 

[brewpharm Hill]

other half has said in their IG posts in the past "fermented with vermont yeast" for their daydreams and other hazy IPAs. Idk if this is what they still use or not, but when I used the vermont yeast (conan, any type of it) it was the closest I could get to their flavor. Mind you, it was my first attempt and requires a lot of tweaking - both in the recipe and fermentation. I haven't brewed this since I posted this and i actually just moved down the street from Other Half... so it may be time to give it another go

 

[Blazinlow86]

You can literally use many different yeast you can use. Burlington Ale, London Ale, Imperial A04, Imperial Juice, London Fog, but my favorite for any style of NEIPA is Imperial A24 -Dryhop. All of the yeast are peach/citrus ester forward and really aid the hops. I believe in underpitching these yeast and have gotten nice results at .5-6

I agree. A24 dryhop is my favorite also. Cheers

 

[h0psnobery]

dang, just one more beer I need to add to my to-brew list. looks delicious!

 

[beervoid]

I was never all that convinced that Burlington Ale was conan. At the bottom of this thread, there is a quoted email from a White Labs rep, saying it's "Conan Like". They also note in that thread that the temp range and flocc characteristics for WLP095 are different than those noted from other yeast manufacturers, all of which leads one to believe it's not quite conan. The WL rep also notes that strains do evolve over time, so it's very likely they all came from the same source at one time.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/wlp095-sposed-to-be-conan.571011/

At the end of the day I bet it would do just fine. When I used it in the past I was bottling and my water chemistry wasn't quite on point yet, so that all affected the outcome. Probably more than the yeast did I bet (I know, bottling an NEIPA is a sin, I keg now). One of these days maybe i'll do a split batch and try WLP095 next to an Omega or Imperial strain.

Speaking of Imperial, I'll have to wait until the colder months and order some. None of the local shops near me carry it.

I've been brewing with WLP095, Gigayeast Conan, The Yeast Bay Vermont, and Imperial Barbarian. I always do split batches.
They all smell the same, they all attenuate the same.

 

[Eric Rioux]

Hi all,

Great thread here. I'm getting back into brewing after a long sabbatical and want to give brewing an OH dream-style NEIPA a shot. I've got the concept and recipe pinned down at this point (thanks in large to this thread) but was curious what folks recommend for good basic water test kits and supplies? My past brews have not paid much attention to water characteristics beyond chlorine.

Any recommendations would be appreciated!

 

[Dgallo]

Hi all,

Great thread here. I'm getting back into brewing after a long sabbatical and want to give brewing an OH dream-style NEIPA a shot. I've got the concept and recipe pinned down at this point (thanks in large to this thread) but was curious what folks recommend for good basic water test kits and supplies? My past brews have not paid much attention to water characteristics beyond chlorine.

Any recommendations would be appreciated!

Where do you live? You can probably find your water report online. I not call your town soil and water department, they should be able to provide you with it. It varies but they will give you adequate report to work from

 

[Eric Rioux]

Where do you live? You can probably find your water report online. I not call your town soil and water department, they should be able to provide you with it. It varies but they will give you adequate report to work from

Here's the town water report:
https://www.eastlongmeadowma.gov/DocumentCenter/View/8222/2018-Water-Quality-Report-PWS-ID-1085000

I'll have to find time to read it in more detail, but a quick search didn't turn up calcium or sulfate. I suppose I can call the town and see what they tell me.

So when folks talk about adjusting their water, wouldn't this involve adding or filtering various chemicals/elements and testing on-site to get things where they want them? Sorry for the newbie questions!

 

[Spin711]

That would be great info, thanks!.
Looking forward, keep us posted.

Just following up on this.

The Daydreamiest: 10.5% abv, 1.029

Space Dream: 6%, 1.012

 

[Dgallo]

Here's the town water report:
https://www.eastlongmeadowma.gov/DocumentCenter/View/8222/2018-Water-Quality-Report-PWS-ID-1085000

I'll have to find time to read it in more detail, but a quick search didn't turn up calcium or sulfate. I suppose I can call the town and see what they tell me.

So when folks talk about adjusting their water, wouldn't this involve adding or filtering various chemicals/elements and testing on-site to get things where they want them? Sorry for the newbie questions!

All good. There are programs or spreadsheets such as Bru’n Water that will calculate the ppm of minerals based on weight of the compounds you adjust your water with and the total volume of water you’re adding them too. You can also learn the math a do it yourself but Bru’n water is mathematically sound so in my opinion there is no reason to do so.

When you get a full water report from your town or a lab if you send it in you can input the numbers you have then tinker with the weights of your brewing salts you’re adding and get a rough ppm of where you want to be

 

[beervoid]

Just following up on this.

The Daydreamiest: 10.5% abv, 1.029

Space Dream: 6%, 1.012

Thanks for sharing!
1.029! Thats crazy high for an ipa. Must be the lactose?

Seems like the higher the abv the higher fg.
Interesting observation. I've always thought one would want to ferment the bigger beers dryer to prevent them from being cloying.
Wasnt it too sweet? Or do you like your beers sweet?

I recently had a bad attenuating beer finish at 1.025
It still tasted good. 6.5% but mouthfeel and sweetness was closer to an 8%

 

[Spin711]

Thanks for sharing!
1.029! Thats crazy high for an ipa. Must be the lactose?

Seems like the higher the abv the higher fg.
Interesting observation. I've always thought one would want to ferment the bigger beers dryer to prevent them from being cloying.
Wasnt it too sweet? Or do you like your beers sweet?

I recently had a bad attenuating beer finish at 1.025
It still tasted good. 6.5% but mouthfeel and sweetness was closer to an 8%

I will check a few others but I think that’s their trend. The higher abv beers are generally listed as containing lactose which I’m finding I don’t necessarily like that flavor contribution. I prefer bigger NEIPA’s without lactose. But it works in some of their beers.

However, most of their beers are outstanding. I had a chance to smell an open bag of hops and what they get is amazing, and as others have discussed is partly why they get such a huge hop presence that we home brewers are constantly chasing. I will also say that their stouts and sours are also very good. Top notch brewery all around

 

[beervoid]

I will check a few others but I think that’s their trend. The higher abv beers are generally listed as containing lactose which I’m finding I don’t necessarily like that flavor contribution. I prefer bigger NEIPA’s without lactose. But it works in some of their beers.

However, most of their beers are outstanding. I had a chance to smell an open bag of hops and what they get is amazing, and as others have discussed is partly why they get such a huge hop presence that we home brewers are constantly chasing. I will also say that their stouts and sours are also very good. Top notch brewery all around

Not a fan of lactose either.
My first new england ipa ever where, ddh space diamonds and green florets.. Absolutely blew my mind.
Would be great if you could meassure some more. Much thanks for sharing that.

 

[sicktght311]

Below is my Strawberry Milkshake IPA that I recently had on at a local beerfest. This is based on my base Milkshape IPA recipe which is a modified version of my NEIPA recipe. Mouthfeel and flavor was spot on. If you took away the Vanilla Beans, and the Fruit addition, its pretty much a thick creamy NEIPA.

Basic Milkshake IPA recipe goes like this

5.5 Gallon Batch Size
6 Gallons Fermenter
6.75 Gallons boil size

1.070sg, 1.020-1.024fg

Mash 60 Minutes at 155
Sparge at 168

Boil 60 Minutes

8lbs 2Row
3lbs White Wheat Malt
3lbs Flaked Oats
.5lbs Honey Malt
.75lbs Lactose

.25oz Warrior @60
2oz Citra, 1oz Mandarina, 2oz Azacca @150 degree Whirlpool
1oz Citra, 1oz Mandarina, 1oz Azacca Dryhop day 2 or 3 (during Active fermentation)
2oz Citra, 2oz Mandarina, 2oz Azacca Dryhop Day 5 (3 days before kegging)

US04 Yeast sprinkled dry, fermented at 63 degrees for 4 days, then 70 for 3 days, then cold crashed for 24hrs. Kegged at day 8 or 9, burst carbonated at 30psi for 24hours, then 5 days at serving pressure.

 

[Dgallo]

Looks good. For the oat cream a switch of the malted wheat for malted oats and that’s prob a pretty solid clone grain bill

 

[Dog House Brew]

I've been brewing with WLP095, Gigayeast Conan, The Yeast Bay Vermont, and Imperial Barbarian. I always do split batches.
They all smell the same, they all attenuate the same.

So no preference flavor wise?

 

[sicktght311]

Looks good. For the oat cream a switch of the malted wheat for malted oats and that’s prob a pretty solid clone grain bill

I’ve recently found the same with low temp us04 vs 1318 vs a38. All have the same juicy profile

 

[ApolloMC]

I've been brewing with WLP095, Gigayeast Conan, The Yeast Bay Vermont, and Imperial Barbarian. I always do split batches.
They all smell the same, they all attenuate the same.

Interesting, thanks for sharing this. I never doubted the other brands as much, especially since they all pretty much flat out say they are conan. I only ever doubted WLP095 just because of my own experience with it and that thread I linked. But I can easily chalk that up to being an inexperienced NEIPA brewer at the time. I may give it another shot.

 

[beervoid]

So no preference flavor wise?

Not really, they all got that stonefruit character going on. Sometimes one had more stronger esters then others but I boil that down to difference in yeast nutrition (I eyeball my additions) or different generations.

Interesting, thanks for sharing this. I never doubted the other brands as much, especially since they all pretty much flat out say they are conan. I only ever doubted WLP095 just because of my own experience with it and that thread I linked. As for my experience, I can easily chalk that up to being an inexperienced NEIPA brewer at the time. I may give it another shot.

As far as I can tell there is no difference. Wlp has hinted it being conan and they have no other strain in their inventory that is described as conan.
Why they would miss out on this popular strain.

 

[Eltes]

I’ve recently found the same with low temp us04 vs 1318 vs a38. All have the same juicy profile

What temperature do you use with S04?

 

[damohb]

So just did a batch of 50% pilsner, 40% oats (25% crisp malted, 15% flaked), 5% carapils/honey and 5% lactose. Fermentation is at day 2, there is a heap of airlock activity, and co2 coming to the surface, but very minimal (close to zero) krausen is forming. I'm guessing due to the oil content of the oats, or could it be error in my process? (just a basic ~75min 152 mash, 168 sparge, 60 min boil)

Has anyone else experienced this? and is it worth continuing with this batch or will it be disappointing in the glass with zero head?

 

[Dgallo]

So just did a batch of 50% pilsner, 40% oats (25% crisp malted, 15% flaked), 5% carapils/honey and 5% lactose. Fermentation is at day 2, there is a heap of airlock activity, and co2 coming to the surface, but very minimal (close to zero) krausen is forming. I'm guessing due to the oil content of the oats, or could it be error in my process? (just a basic ~75min 152 mash, 168 sparge, 60 min boil)

Has anyone else experienced this? and is it worth continuing with this batch or will it be disappointing in the glass with zero head?

It could be the lipids in the oats. They kill head retention so I’d bet they would mess with Krausen foam. What was your pitch rate? Is there a chance you missed the most active fermentation already? Is there dried Krausen on the side above your current Krausen line?

 

[damohb]

No krausen line, appears to have just started slowing now going by airlock activity, unsure of exact pitch rate but it was around a ~1L starter of WLP066. Going to put it down to the amount of oats at this stage, and will let it run for experiments sake.

 

[TBryerton]

So just did a batch of 50% pilsner, 40% oats (25% crisp malted, 15% flaked), 5% carapils/honey and 5% lactose. Fermentation is at day 2, there is a heap of airlock activity, and co2 coming to the surface, but very minimal (close to zero) krausen is forming. I'm guessing due to the oil content of the oats, or could it be error in my process? (just a basic ~75min 152 mash, 168 sparge, 60 min boil)

Has anyone else experienced this? and is it worth continuing with this batch or will it be disappointing in the glass with zero head?

I was considering doing a very similar malt bill for a OH clone. How did this turn out?

 

[damohb]

Sorry just saw your reply. I ended up dumping it rather than wasting a heap more hops on the dryhop. Looking back even when filling the fermenter or duration aeration there were basically no bubbles forming on the surface, all very strange. I might make another attempt soon with something more basic like 70% pilsner, 15% malted oats, 10% flaked wheat (or barley) and 5% carafoam

 

[beervoid]

Sorry just saw your reply. I ended up dumping it rather than wasting a heap more hops on the dryhop. Looking back even when filling the fermenter or duration aeration there were basically no bubbles forming on the surface, all very strange. I might make another attempt soon with something more basic like 70% pilsner, 15% malted oats, 10% flaked wheat (or barley) and 5% carafoam

Did you measure gravity?

 

[damohb]

Yeah it got down to around 1.020 from 1.071, so it was basically at my FG, just no krausen or anything at all formed on the surface over the 3+ days... There was a heap of airlock activity, you could actually hear the co2 dissipating when it reached the surface of the wort, if it wasn't for the activity from the blowoff tube I would have thought it was an air leak.

 

[beervoid]

Yeah it got down to around 1.020 from 1.071, so it was basically at my FG, just no krausen or anything at all formed on the surface over the 3+ days... There was a heap of airlock activity, you could actually hear the co2 dissipating when it reached the surface of the wort, if it wasn't for the activity from the blowoff tube I would have thought it was an air leak.

Why did you dump it? I had a batch ending up as high as 1.026 and it still didnt come out too sweet.
No krausen doesnt neccesarily mean ur fermentation was off. Lots of factors can influence this. Fermenter type or cleaning agents...

 

[sicktght311]

What temperature do you use with S04?

Sorry i missed this. Typically 64 degrees for most of fermentation, then i turn it up to 70 at the end to clean up

 

[abrewer12345]

making an attempt at this beer this weekend too. ill post the full recipe shortly but wanted to ask some question. first time using lactose- it goes in at flameout right? and where is everyone in quantity of lactose- its a 5.5 gal batch, and i dont love overly sweet so im looking for just a nice touch of lactose. was thinking .75lb.

 

[sicktght311]

making an attempt at this beer this weekend too. ill post the full recipe shortly but wanted to ask some question. first time using lactose- it goes in at flameout right? and where is everyone in quantity of lactose- its a 5.5 gal batch, and i dont love overly sweet so im looking for just a nice touch of lactose. was thinking .75lb.

Lactose doesnt necessarily add "sweetness" as much as it does a perceived thicker feel. Its more creamy than it is sweet. That being said, .75lb for a 5 gallon finished batch has been my sweet spot for Milkshake IPAs. .5lbs for Flavored Porters and stouts.

I throw it in 5mins to go in the boil, but it really doesnt matter when you put it in, so long as it dissolves and mixes properly. I've even put it in at kegging without any issues. Just boiled it for a minute in a cup or two of water, cooled, then dumped into the keg before i racked from the fermenter

 

[abrewer12345]

Here's my batch to be brewed this Friday. Looking for feedback on it so please weigh in! only thing i can't really change is the malt bill as the grains have already been purchased, but have plenty of hops, yeast, and water salts to adjust.

5.5gal

Per Beersmith:
OG: 1.069
FG: 1.023
Srm: 5.5
ABV : about 6.2%

Grains:
8.5# 2-Row (56%)
2.5# Flaked Oats (17%)
2.5# Malted Oats (17%)
.5# Carafoam (3%)
.5# Honey Malt (3%)
.75# Lactose at 55min

Mash pH 5.26
Mash 156 F for 47 minutes (per beersmith recommendation, should we still do 60 mins?)
Mashout 168 F for 10 minutes
Fly Sparge at 168 F for 15-20 mins

Boil/Hops:
1oz Galaxy @ 0min
1oz Sabro @ 0min
2oz Galaxy Whirlpool 20min at 170
2oz Sabro Whirlpool 20min at 170

Dry Hop:
2oz Galaxy 3 days into ferm
1oz Sabro 3 days into ferm
2oz Galaxy 7 days into ferm
1oz Sabro 7 days into ferm


Yeast/Fermentation:
1 L starter of Bootleg Biology NEEPAH
- going to let the beer rest overnight to ensure temp is ideal, pitch at what i'm hoping to be around 68 degrees, will bring it up to 70-71 on day 4-5, then get it down to 64degrees before kegging. force transferring from carboy to keg on probably day 9-10.

Chemistry:

150 S04
175 Cl
149 Ca (this number is because of my original water chemistry. any way to drive this number down?)

water additions
9g gypsum (4.5 to mash water, 4.5 to sparge. should this all be at once before boil?)
9g CaCl (same as above)

 

[Dgallo]

Here's my batch to be brewed this Friday. Looking for feedback on it so please weigh in! only thing i can't really change is the malt bill as the grains have already been purchased, but have plenty of hops, yeast, and water salts to adjust.

5.5gal

Per Beersmith:
OG: 1.069
FG: 1.023
Srm: 5.5
ABV : about 6.2%

Grains:
8.5# 2-Row (56%)
2.5# Flaked Oats (17%)
2.5# Malted Oats (17%)
.5# Carafoam (3%)
.5# Honey Malt (3%)
.75# Lactose at 55min

Mash pH 5.26
Mash 156 F for 47 minutes (per beersmith recommendation, should we still do 60 mins?)
Mashout 168 F for 10 minutes
Fly Sparge at 168 F for 15-20 mins

Boil/Hops:
1oz Galaxy @ 0min
1oz Sabro @ 0min
2oz Galaxy Whirlpool 20min at 170
2oz Sabro Whirlpool 20min at 170

Dry Hop:
2oz Galaxy 3 days into ferm
1oz Sabro 3 days into ferm
2oz Galaxy 7 days into ferm
1oz Sabro 7 days into ferm


Yeast/Fermentation:
1 L starter of Bootleg Biology NEEPAH
- going to let the beer rest overnight to ensure temp is ideal, pitch at what i'm hoping to be around 68 degrees, will bring it up to 70-71 on day 4-5, then get it down to 64degrees before kegging. force transferring from carboy to keg on probably day 9-10.

Chemistry:

150 S04
175 Cl
149 Ca (this number is because of my original water chemistry. any way to drive this number down?)

water additions
9g gypsum (4.5 to mash water, 4.5 to sparge. should this all be at once before boil?)
9g CaCl (same as above)

Ever use sabro berfore? I would just suggest tasting it before you dryhop with it. Can go from coconut to cedar wood rather quickly as you go above 3 ozs

 

[abrewer12345]

Ever use sabro berfore? I would just suggest tasting it before you dryhop with it. Can go from coconut to cedar wood rather quickly as you go above 3 ozs

i haven't used it but i've drank it a bunch. i'm looking to get that coconut flavor without it drowning out the galaxy. should i just cut it from the dry hop and go with all galaxy?

 

[Dgallo]

i haven't used it but i've drank it a bunch. i'm looking to get that coconut flavor without it drowning out the galaxy. should i just cut it from the dry hop and go with all galaxy?

I personally believe it’s more potent than galaxy. I would just monitor the taste and aroma before you dryhop. I notice your dryhoping during fermentation so when you get around 1.025 just give it a taste. Only need a few points left to scrub any o2. If it’s already solid coconut you may not need it in the DH. If you still think it didn’t hit coconut enough go for What you planned.

 

[abrewer12345]

I personally believe it’s more potent than galaxy. I would just monitor the taste and aroma before you dryhop. I notice your dryhoping during fermentation so when you get around 1.025 just give it a taste. Only need a few points left to scrub any o2. If it’s already solid coconut you may not need it in the DH. If you still think it didn’t hit coconut enough go for What you planned.

perfect thank you sir- how does everything else look? still relatively new to homebrewing, and looking for any and all feedback

 

[Dgallo]

perfect thank you sir- how does everything else look? still relatively new to homebrewing, and looking for any and all feedback

Grain bill looks fine. Your water chem is different than I would use. I would bring so4 down to 100 and wouldn’t exceed 100 ca. You don’t have to adjust Cl with cacl. You can use canning salt or gypsum but it all depends on your base water

 

[abrewer12345]

Grain bill looks fine. Your water chem is different than I would use. I would bring so4 down to 100 and wouldn’t exceed 100 ca. You don’t have to adjust Cl with cacl. You can use canning salt or gypsum but it all depends on your base water

great thanks! tell me about when you add your water minerals- i've heard mixed opinions on this