Other Half Daydream (oat cream IPAs) - all grain clone attempts

[TBryerton]

I don't quite follow..I was referring to beers made by Other Half with their "HDHC (high density hop charge)" they have done these with primarily their citra and mosaic beers, for instance More Citra than All Citra. so i dont follow what it has to do with weed.

That said i could totally see them possibly extending that technology into the cannabis field and recently read a thing about some NA cannabis beers, though i dont recall the brewery.

YVH hasn't responded to me about incognito.

Sorry, I thought you were asking about their new dry hop process. I know absolutely nothing about weed but when I asked them about their new process referenced in the Double Red Chroma description that’s what they told me. Unfortunately I had consumed quite a bit of that specific beverage that day so I didn’t push the conversation any further.

 

[BeerFst]

Sorry, I thought you were asking about their new dry hop process. I know absolutely nothing about weed but when I asked them about their new process referenced in the Double Red Chroma description that’s what they told me. Unfortunately I had consumed quite a bit of that specific beverage that day so I didn’t push the conversation any further.

And I totally missed that too, I haven’t really been following their Rochester stuff and I know it makes it to Brooklyn every now and then but for some reason I just haven’t read those descriptions. Now you got me curious tho how weed might influence dry hopping

Edit: as I think about it I wonder if it’s grinder related, like they are using whole cone and grinding them up?

 

[Dgallo]

Edit: as I think about it I wonder if it’s grinder related, like they are using whole cone and grinding them up?

I can’t speak for OH but I know that Industrial Arts brewing does this with citra and Amarillo whole cones. They will grind them up right before the whirlpool and hopbacking. I watch a video where the head brewer said that he believes whole cones protect the lupulin glands better. He also noted that a lot of the compounds that have been shown to truly biotransform are in the leaf material. He only uses this method hotside because of the higher risk for oxidation and greater loss does not make it practical in the dryhop

 

[couchsending]

I know that Industrial Arts uses wholecone in a hopback, they talk about it. They didn’t mention adding wholecone to the whirlpool though. Have you seen that or heard them say that?

Slightly grinding up the whole cones to expose the lupulin makes sense but I doubt they’re talking about grinding it up too fine. I’ve used whole cone in a hopback for maybe the last 6 or so hoppy beers. Only one was fresh 2019 cones though. Rest were 2018 that had lost a bit of their luster. On one batch I did mess with putting the leaf in a small food processor I have and it definitely made the aroma pop however it also left a ton of Hop oil all over the inside of the food processor. Since then I’ve tried to just pull the cones apart instead of grinding them.

 

[Dgallo]

I know that Industrial Arts uses wholecone in a hopback, they talk about it. They didn’t mention adding wholecone to the whirlpool though. Have you seen that or heard them say that?

Slightly grinding up the whole cones to expose the lupulin makes sense but I doubt they’re talking about grinding it up too fine. I’ve used whole cone in a hopback for maybe the last 6 or so hoppy beers. Only one was fresh 2019 cones though. Rest were 2018 that had lost a bit of their luster. On one batch I did mess with putting the leaf in a small food processor I have and it definitely made the aroma pop however it also left a ton of Hop oil all over the inside of the food processor. Since then I’ve tried to just pull the cones apart instead of grinding them.

This is all I can find from the video I originally saw which was like an hour long. I’m almost certain in the original video they claimed their whirlpools are 60/40 pellet to cone. I’ll keep looking for the whole video

 

[BeerFst]

Leaf shredder is awesome.

someone (on Reddit maybe?) told me that isopropyl will take care of the residue but I still wouldn’t want to do it in my normal food processor, maybe a bullet or something dedicated.

I’m wondering if some vodka could do the same and then you could pitch into the beer that as well

 

[couchsending]

Leaf shredder is awesome.

someone (on Reddit maybe?) told me that isopropyl will take care of the residue but I still wouldn’t want to do it in my normal food processor, maybe a bullet or something dedicated.

I’m wondering if some vodka could do the same and then you could pitch into the beer that as well

A PBW soak took care of the residue. It’s a small little food processor. Can’t even fit an ounce of leaf in it. I probably won’t do it again.

 

[jigtwins]

Interesting thread. I have been brewing NEIPA's most of this year. One thing that I have found out is that yeast selection is not as important as having a good grain bill, hop selection. and water profile. Been using s-04 for a lot of my beers. Ferment on the cooler side around 62 to start. Raise to 66 near fg. Doing double dry hop additions a couple days apart for 3 days each. Firt addition @ about 65-75% attenuation.Try to limit oxygen as much as possible.Noticed a huge improvement in flavor and aroma fermenting cooler. Grain bill is pilsner malt 79.5%, golden naked oats 7.2%, flaked oats 7.2%, C-20 2.3%, Honey malt 2.3% and acid malt 1.4%( for ph adjustments). I use 2 hop varietys per batch. Add 1st addition @ 10 min left. just to get around 20 IBU's. 2 oz each hop @ 160 for 25 minute whirlpool. First Dry hop is 1.5 ounces of each hop for 3 days. 2nd dry hop is 2.5 oz of each hop for 3 days. I like to ferment for 10 days total. Depending on fg of course. This is based on a 5 gallon batch size. Comes out nice and juicy. Tons of aroma and delicious hop flavors. I think that the pilsner malt works well with this style by not imparting too much maltiness. Honey malt and the lighter crystal adds just a touch of sweetness that I like in this style. Water profile starts with ro water. Shoot for CA 80-100, NA 10-20, Cl 140-160
S04 50-75. Shoot for a PH of 5.2-5.4. I have not used any lactose yet. But would like to experiment with it soon.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I just had a tremendous cream other half (10% imperial oat cream ipa with Citra, Citra cryo, Idaho 7, mosaic, mosaic cryo) and as soon as I poured it and took the first sip the only thing I got was honey malt...that unmistakable incredibly sweet honey malt flavor and aroma. This is not a bad thing as I quite enjoyed the beer but I can’t remember ever detecting so much honey malt in an other half offering.

I wasn’t at all familiar with honey malt until I had a few of the lighthouse series beers from trillium, and also some of their harbor island series beers...now, as soon as I smell any beer with honey malt I can’t help but detect it immediately. It definitely adds a very strong, pronounced aroma and flavor that you probably either love or hate. For now I like it but I think if I had anymore than 1 or 2 it would probably become too sweet. If nothing else, I think it’s interesting that other half is using it. To me it virtually drowns out any and all hops.

 

[couchsending]

Most professionals who speak about using honey malt in hoppy beers say that 2% is the sweet spot, no more.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I’ve seen numerous people say that you need to be careful to not use too much. 2-3% is what I’ve seen as well. I’m interested in trying some in an upcoming batch, I’m just hoping I won’t have 5 gallons of a beer that is way too sweet.

 

[couchsending]

At only 2% there are other things that would have a much bigger impact on the perception of sweetness in your beer.

 

[HopsAreGood]

At only 2% there are other things that would have a much bigger impact on the perception of sweetness in your beer.

Agreed. I guess what I’m getting at is I’d like to use enough where it is noticeable and beneficial to the beer, while not being overpowering or distracting. I suppose using 2% would be a good place to start.

While I enjoyed the other half last night, I would definitely not want to have that much of a honey malt presence in a beer that I made. I literally tasted no hops in it, just the honey malt. I experienced the same thing with two of the trillium light house beers.

https://www.trilliumbrewing.com/nauset-
lighthouse

https://www.trilliumbrewing.com/gay-head-lighthouse

The first one is pale malt, honey malt, and el dorado. The second is the same but just subs in mosaic for the el dorado. Both of those beers, and the tremendous cream taste virtually identical to me. I wish I knew what % of honey malt was used in them. Oh well.

 

[beervoid]

Agreed. I guess what I’m getting at is I’d like to use enough where it is noticeable and beneficial to the beer, while not being overpowering or distracting. I suppose using 2% would be a good place to start.

While I enjoyed the other half last night, I would definitely not want to have that much of a honey malt presence in a beer that I made. I literally tasted no hops in it, just the honey malt. I experienced the same thing with two of the trillium light house beers.

https://www.trilliumbrewing.com/nauset-
lighthouse

https://www.trilliumbrewing.com/gay-head-lighthouse

The first one is pale malt, honey malt, and el dorado. The second is the same but just subs in mosaic for the el dorado. Both of those beers, and the tremendous cream taste virtually identical to me. I wish I knew what % of honey malt was used in them. Oh well.

I think you are mistaking "honey malt" sweetness with sweetness of a 10% beer.
I personally find it hard to believe in such a big beer 2% honey malt would come through at all.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I think you are mistaking "honey malt" sweetness with sweetness of a 10% beer.
I personally find it hard to believe in such a big beer 2% honey malt would come through at all.

You may be right, but trust me when I tell you I’ve had numerous triple ipas in the 10-11% range that are completely different than what I am perceiving as the honey malt sweetness. Many of these have been from other half, the same brewery that made the beer I am talking about. I wouldn’t really consider them sweet at all, and detect zero of the honey malt flavor and aroma in them. Perhaps they used more than 2%?

There’s another brewery near me that has a running series of 10.5% TIPAs that aren’t sweet, and also have no trace of the honey malt flavor/aroma.

 

[couchsending]

It’s all the lactose in that Other Half beer, doubt it’s as much the honey malt. I’d bet if you were to degas that beer it’s FG would be well north of 1.020.

I would agree with you on those Trillium beers however. The honey malt was rather noticeable in those.

Honey malt It’s a 25 lovibond crystal malt. In modern hoppy beers I wouldn’t put much more than 2% of any crystal malt in my grain bill.

 

[TBryerton]

It’s all the lactose in that Other Half beer, doubt it’s as much the honey malt. I’d bet if you were to degas that beer it’s FG would be well north of 1.020.

I would agree with you on those Trillium beers however. The honey malt was rather noticeable in those.

Honey malt It’s a 25 lovibond crystal malt. In modern hoppy beers I wouldn’t put much more than 2% of any crystal malt in my grain bill.

Just tested OH Double Red Chroma. Came in right at 1.020

 

[HopsAreGood]

Just tested OH Double Red Chroma. Came in right at 1.020

Yup, which is totally acceptable for the style. The beer I was referring to was over the top with honey malt flavor and aroma. Lactose adds a slight sweet creaminess, but In my opinion no flavor and no aroma.

On a side note, I was at other half last Friday and every beer I had on draft was amazing. Had a triple Nelson, DDH enigma, space diamonds (all galaxy) and the amount of flavor that comes through in those beers is incredible. The amount of hop saturation, coupled with what I would perceive as extremely high quality hops, is simply amazing.

I’ve had tons of treehouse, trillium, tired hands, etc...but I really feel that when objectively tasting beers, other half is always in a league of its own. At least to my jaded NEIPA palette. Whatever they are doing is working.

 

[TBryerton]

Yup, which is totally acceptable for the style. The beer I was referring to was over the top with honey malt flavor and aroma. Lactose adds a slight sweet creaminess, but In my opinion no flavor and no aroma.

On a side note, I was at other half last Friday and every beer I had on draft was amazing. Had a triple Nelson, DDH enigma, space diamonds (all galaxy) and the amount of flavor that comes through in those beers is incredible. The amount of hop saturation, coupled with what I would perceive as extremely high quality hops, is simply amazing.

I’ve had tons of treehouse, trillium, tired hands, etc...but I really feel that when objectively tasting beers, other half is always in a league of its own. At least to my jaded NEIPA palette. Whatever they are doing is working.

I would agree with all of that with the exception of the comparison to TH.

I love OH, and I agree that they’re beers have been excellent lately, but TH is still way ahead IMHO.

 

[Dgallo]

I would agree with all of that with the exception of the comparison to TH.

I love OH, and I agree that they’re beers have been excellent lately, but TH is still way ahead IMHO.

I respect your opinion but I’m on the side of OH and EQ being better

 

[HopsAreGood]

I respect your opinion but I’m on the side of OH and EQ being better

100% agree. Other half and EQ just taste amazing. I ever so slightly prefer OH to EQ but it’s very close. Occasionally the EQ juice can get a little weird to me, but nine times out out ten their beers are superb. Treehouse is unique because of their house yeast, which we all know is wonderful, but it gets a bit redundant, and overpowers hops in my opinion. For me, everything OH puts out is just phenomenal. I particularly enjoy their single hop beers because the flavor and aroma come through so, so much. What they consistently put out, is what I’m trying to consistently make.

That being said it’s not rocket science what they’re doing. 2-row or Pilsner, oats, maybe some wheat here and there, London ale 3 fermented at 72 throughout to get the fruity esters, drop the yeast before a massive dry hop, transfer to a serving vessel, carb to 2.4 volumes. Seems easy on the surface but they absolutely have it dialed in. The only other beers that I feel come close are fresh examples from monkish. They’ve really, really got it dialed in as well.

 

[TBryerton]

100% agree. Other half and EQ just taste amazing. I ever so slightly prefer OH to EQ but it’s very close. Occasionally the EQ juice can get a little weird to me, but nine times out out ten their beers are superb. Treehouse is unique because of their house yeast, which we all know is wonderful, but it gets a bit redundant, and overpowers hops in my opinion. For me, everything OH puts out is just phenomenal. I particularly enjoy their single hop beers because the flavor and aroma come through so, so much. What they consistently put out, is what I’m trying to consistently make.

That being said it’s not rocket science what they’re doing. 2-row or Pilsner, oats, maybe some wheat here and there, London ale 3 fermented at 72 throughout to get the fruity esters, drop the yeast before a massive dry hop, transfer to a serving vessel, carb to 2.4 volumes. Seems easy on the surface but they absolutely have it dialed in. The only other beers that I feel come close are fresh examples from monkish. They’ve really, really got it dialed in as well.

I

100% agree. Other half and EQ just taste amazing. I ever so slightly prefer OH to EQ but it’s very close. Occasionally the EQ juice can get a little weird to me, but nine times out out ten their beers are superb. Treehouse is unique because of their house yeast, which we all know is wonderful, but it gets a bit redundant, and overpowers hops in my opinion. For me, everything OH puts out is just phenomenal. I particularly enjoy their single hop beers because the flavor and aroma come through so, so much. What they consistently put out, is what I’m trying to consistently make.

That being said it’s not rocket science what they’re doing. 2-row or Pilsner, oats, maybe some wheat here and there, London ale 3 fermented at 72 throughout to get the fruity esters, drop the yeast before a massive dry hop, transfer to a serving vessel, carb to 2.4 volumes. Seems easy on the surface but they absolutely have it dialed in. The only other beers that I feel come close are fresh examples from monkish. They’ve really, really got it dialed in as well.

Is it confirmed they use LAIII or is that just the assumption from the one google search. I thought someone mentioned prior to the brew chart being shared that they use joystick? LAIII usually sticks out to me and I’ve never gotten it from any OH beers.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I


Is it confirmed they use LAIII or is that just the assumption from the one google search. I thought someone mentioned prior to the brew chart being shared that they use joystick? LAIII usually sticks out to me and I’ve never gotten it from any OH beers.

The brew sheet in this thread shows them using A-18, which is BSI’s equivalent of LA3. I know sometimes they mention using Vermont yeast in the description of their beers, but they are definitely using LA3 at least sometimes.

https://www.brewingscience.com/product/london-ale-iii/

 

[cheesebach]

I


Is it confirmed they use LAIII or is that just the assumption from the one google search. I thought someone mentioned prior to the brew chart being shared that they use joystick? LAIII usually sticks out to me and I’ve never gotten it from any OH beers.

Joystick was just some confusion over the "A-18" listed on the brew sheet as Imperial A18 rather than BSI A-18 (LAIII). I don't think that there's been any real speculation that they've used it in IPAs, at least that I've seen. In my experience, LAIII has given me the closest to the OH NEIPA character for my beers of any yeast I've used for the style.

 

[TBryerton]

Joystick was just some confusion over the "A-18" listed on the brew sheet as Imperial A18 rather than BSI A-18 (LAIII). I don't think that there's been any real speculation that they've used it in IPAs, at least that I've seen. In my experience, LAIII has given me the closest to the OH NEIPA character for my beers of any yeast I've used for the style.

I was referring to the post on page 2 from @Brewpharm_hill - “I did a tour there and if I remember correctly they said they use Imperial's Joystick or something like that for their house strain”. Seems like quite a coincidence that a18 appears on the brew sheet - which is also a name for Joystick.

 

[HopsAreGood]

I was referring to the post on page 2 from @Brewpharm_hill - “I did a tour there and if I remember correctly they said they use Imperial's Joystick or something like that for their house strain”. Seems like quite a coincidence that a18 appears on the brew sheet - which is also a name for Joystick.

Definitely splitting hairs here, but everywhere I look imperial’s joystick
is listed as A18 (no dash) while BSI’s LA3 is listed as A-18 (with the dash) Who knows....but the sheet is written as A-18.

I’ve used LA3 a lot and agree I get the closet character to OH when using it as far as mouthfeel, some residual sweetness etc. The amount of hops that are going into these beers are likely drowning out some of the yeast in terms of actual flavor contribution.

No evidence to back this up. Just my personal experience.

 

[beervoid]

Definitely splitting hairs here, but everywhere I look imperial’s joystick
is listed as A18 (no dash) while BSI’s LA3 is listed as A-18 (with the dash) Who knows....but the sheet is written as A-18.

I’ve used LA3 a lot and agree I get the closet character to OH when using it as far as mouthfeel, some residual sweetness etc. The amount of hops that are going into these beers are likely drowning out some of the yeast in terms of actual flavor contribution.

No evidence to back this up. Just my personal experience.

I also have a hard time picking up any difference on yeast esters in heavily dry hopped beers. Considering the amount they use.

 

[Bibbett]

Is it possible that they are using joystick at 72f and getting some subtle esters that might not be present at the recommended fermentation temp of 60-70? Might be worth a shot [emoji848]

 

[HopsAreGood]

Is it possible that they are using joystick at 72f and getting some subtle esters that might not be present at the recommended fermentation temp of 60-70? Might be worth a shot [emoji848]

Anything is possible. Anything and everything.

 

[Bibbett]

Ferment on the cooler side around 62 to start. Raise to 66 near fg. Doing double dry hop additions a couple days apart for 3 days each. Firt addition @ about 65-75% attenuation.Try to limit oxygen as much as possible.Noticed a huge improvement in flavor and aroma fermenting cooler.

Your observations here regarding low fermentation temp and an improved flavour profile align with some of the studies that Scott Janish put to the test with one of his recent beers Thiol Driver.

http://scottjanish.com/thiol-driver/

He references a study that saw increased Thiol concentrations in a beer fermented at lager temps vs ale temps:

“A paper that examined whether thiol concentrations increase or decrease based on fermentation temperature dosed test beers with Mosaic hops at the onset of fermentation (early dry hopping) and measured thiols 3MH and 3MHA. The authors found that almost twice the amount of 3MHA was measured in the beer fermented at 59°F (15°C) compared to the one at 71°F (21°C) with a wheat beer yeast (Tum 68).6
Specifically, the above paper found that the tropical and desirable 3MHA (which is converted from 3MH) went from 4 ng/l to 8 ng/l at the lower temperature.”

It would seem pretty reasonable that this increase in thiols (3MH- grapefruit and 3MHA - passion fruit) would likely be from the whirlpool additions as well as the dry hops. This is something I’m hoping to put to the test in the next few weeks. Maximising these flavours seems like a no brainer so it’s gotta be worth a shot!

 

[beervoid]

Your observations here regarding low fermentation temp and an improved flavour profile align with some of the studies that Scott Janish put to the test with one of his recent beers Thiol Driver.

http://scottjanish.com/thiol-driver/

He references a study that saw increased Thiol concentrations in a beer fermented at lager temps vs ale temps:

“A paper that examined whether thiol concentrations increase or decrease based on fermentation temperature dosed test beers with Mosaic hops at the onset of fermentation (early dry hopping) and measured thiols 3MH and 3MHA. The authors found that almost twice the amount of 3MHA was measured in the beer fermented at 59°F (15°C) compared to the one at 71°F (21°C) with a wheat beer yeast (Tum 68).6
Specifically, the above paper found that the tropical and desirable 3MHA (which is converted from 3MH) went from 4 ng/l to 8 ng/l at the lower temperature.”

It would seem pretty reasonable that this increase in thiols (3MH- grapefruit and 3MHA - passion fruit) would likely be from the whirlpool additions as well as the dry hops. This is something I’m hoping to put to the test in the next few weeks. Maximising these flavours seems like a no brainer so it’s gotta be worth a shot!

Interesting info. Yet OH seems to ferment at 72f the whole time.

 

[couchsending]

When you ferment at 72 and DH at 6lb per bbl you get maximum yeast esters and crazy hop intensity... but most of all you can turn and burn DDH murky lactose bombs that all the kids line up for in 12 days. If you were to ferment at 58 or 60 it would probably take quite a bit longer and you’d need quite a bit more yeast.

LAIII will ferment at 50 you just need twice as much yeast. I know a professional brewer who’s won some decent awards for a “Vienna lager” that’s just LAIII fermented at 53.

I’ve got a batch of beer going that’s all American Noble Citra and Simcoe in the boil and “Vermont ale” fermenting at 56 pitched at close to 2m/ml/* Plato (provides the yeast calc’s are actually correct). Pitched at 52 last night around 10, trucking right along at 56 this AM when I woke up.

 

[couchsending]

“Vermont Ale” took the beer from 1.044 to 1.009 in 4 days at 56. Going to let it climb to 63 and give it a few more days. Super fast, no diacetyl or acetaldehyde.. kinda nuts

 

[beervoid]

“Vermont Ale” took the beer from 1.044 to 1.009 in 4 days at 56. Going to let it climb to 63 and give it a few more days. Super fast, no diacetyl or acetaldehyde.. kinda nuts

Nice, keep us posted. Which vermont did u use?
Curious how the esters come out. I have best luck starting at lower temps and raising at the end to get that stonefruit character

 

[Bibbett]

That’s crazy. Do you reckon most ale yeasts will ferment that low if you pitch enough?

 

[couchsending]

Not sure. Chico definitely will. S04 definitely will.

The yeast I’m using I harvested from some cans. The “Kenny's Kolsch” from The Alchemist that this is inspired by had very little in the way of esters. My goal was something similar.

 

[Fergal]

Nearly 50% oats on the oat cream IPA (#7). You would imagine they would have to use a fair proportion of malted oats to avoid lauter issues right?

 

[HopsAreGood]

Nearly 50% oats on the oat cream IPA (#7). You would imagine they would have to use a fair proportion of malted oats to avoid lauter issues right?

Yes. Definitely. I know of other brewers locally who have done 50% malted oats. Troon is putting out some of the best iPas in the game.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beerandbrewing.com/amp/troon-brewing-placebo-effect-ipa-recipe/

 

[Dgallo]

Nearly 50% oats on the oat cream IPA (#7). You would imagine they would have to use a fair proportion of malted oats to avoid lauter issues right?

I would think so. At least 30% of that I would think is malted but again they have recirculating mash tuns with automated paddling so they could be working through the mash and sparge if you know what I’m saying.

 

[loudcloudbrewing]

In 2018 I met Matt and let him try one of my NEIPA's. I had %30 flaked oats in that particular recipe. His feedback: "great beer, but more oats man." Compared to what I was reading back then (~%20) I was kind of suprised, thinking I was already %10 over the average. He said up it to %40-%50 and I'd have a killer mouthfeel.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BpvMq4rgZgb/