Other Half Daydream (oat cream IPAs) - all grain clone attempts

[beervoid]

Does anyone here have access to Other Half and wants to waste some of their awsome beer to do a final gravity reading?
It seems there are quiet some different opinions out there on the FG of these beers.
Tree House has meassured at 1.015 that I know.
Some brewers claim an fg of 1.019 or higher is way too much for DIPA's, some like it.
Would be interesting to get some FG's on Other Half stuff.

 

[Spin711]

Does anyone here have access to Other Half and wants to waste some of their awsome beer to do a final gravity reading?
It seems there are quiet some different opinions out there on the FG of these beers.
Tree House has meassured at 1.015 that I know.
Some brewers claim an fg of 1.019 or higher is way too much for DIPA's, some like it.
Would be interesting to get some FG's on Other Half stuff.

I can take some this week and weekend

 

[beervoid]

I can take some this week and weekend

That would be great info, thanks!.
Looking forward, keep us posted.

 

[skibb]

Keep in mind - beers of this style with lots of DH (and sometimes bio DH) tend to be more effected by hop creep and FG can vary by a few SG units from batch to batch.

 

[Dgallo]

Keep in mind - beers of this style with lots of DH (and sometimes bio DH) tend to be more effected by hop creep and FG can vary by a few SG units from batch to batch.

Bio hopping would have zero effect on hop creep, the yeast would clean itself up by the time you packaged. I’ve seen very few quality breweries that massively Dh, such as Other Half, ever have a diacetyl creep in their packaged beers

 

[skibb]

I have brewed about 40,000 gallons of beer that would beg to differ. We only see hop creep when DH during active fermentation. The more yeast active and in solution, the more opportunities you have for them to eat up the newly available sugars from hop enzymes.

 

[beervoid]

Keep in mind - beers of this style with lots of DH (and sometimes bio DH) tend to be more effected by hop creep and FG can vary by a few SG units from batch to batch.

I would suppose they would control this as they aim to make consistent beers. One can anticipate on the extra drop.
Having sad that, I've had dipa finish as high as 1.020 and as low as 1.015 and couldnt tell the difference.

 

[TBryerton]

Does anyone here have access to Other Half and wants to waste some of their awsome beer to do a final gravity reading?
It seems there are quiet some different opinions out there on the FG of these beers.
Tree House has meassured at 1.015 that I know.
Some brewers claim an fg of 1.019 or higher is way too much for DIPA's, some like it.
Would be interesting to get some FG's on Other Half stuff.

Triple Citra showing 1.020

 

[beervoid]

Triple Citra showing 1.020

Wow thats high for a high gravity beer!
Did you meassure at room temp after de-carbing the sample with an hydrometer?

 

[skibb]

I would suppose they would control this as they aim to make consistent beers.

You say that so nonchalantly; If you could answer how to do this, you could give a talk at CBC and it would probably be the most well attended, no joke. It is one of the hottest topics in recent years - there could easily be a whole other thread about controlling the hop creep and consistency.

We force ferment every batch of NE/hazy IPA we brew, and regularly see that bio dry hopped ones finish anywhere from 1-3 SG points lower. The biggest contributing factor we've noticed is sourcing of the hop crop. Generally, hops from the same lots have much less FG variance between brews.

This proves problematic for the vast majority of breweries out there, as contracts are lean if exist at all, and the majority of our hops come from various sources on the secondary market. OH is definitely big enough to have some hefty contracts, but I would be surprised if all of their hops come from them.

/end off-topic hop creep info

 

[Dgallo]

You say that so nonchalantly; If you could answer how to do this, you could give a talk at CBC and it would probably be the most well attended, no joke. It is one of the hottest topics in recent years - there could easily be a whole other thread about controlling the hop creep and consistency.

We force ferment every batch of NE/hazy IPA we brew, and regularly see that bio dry hopped ones finish anywhere from 1-3 SG points lower. The biggest contributing factor we've noticed is sourcing of the hop crop. Generally, hops from the same lots have much less FG variance between brews.

This proves problematic for the vast majority of breweries out there, as contracts are lean if exist at all, and the majority of our hops come from various sources on the secondary market. OH is definitely big enough to have some hefty contracts, but I would be surprised if all of their hops come from them.

/end off-topic hop creep info

I’m not denying your experience, but it seems odd that bio hopping, is causing your creep. There is plenty of yeast available after fermentation, even if you soft crash to drop most of the yeast before dryhoping, so you should be dropping those points if the maltrose is being broken down by enzymes from the hops. Luckily you can account for over attention in your recipe. The bigger problem with the creep is the formation of VDK and acetaldehyde. To combat this, I know breweries, such as sloop who I got this info from, are soft crashing to mid/upper 50s to drop yeast, (sometimes even lower based on the strain) and to make them much less active and dryhoping there since it’s still warm enough for extraction. Kills two birds one stone, prevents creep and drops yeast prior to dryhoping so the yeast stripping doesn’t occur

 

[TBryerton]

Wow thats high for a high gravity beer!
Did you meassure at room temp after de-carbing the sample with an hydrometer?

Yes. Poured from glass to glass for awhile and then let it sit overnight. Keep in mind the triple certainly felt thicker than their other beers

 

[Dgallo]

Yes. Poured from glass to glass for awhile and then let it sit overnight. Keep in mind the triple certainly felt thicker than their other beers

Most high gravity doubles and triples IPAs will have a FG OF 1.018-1.020. They’re mashing 154-156 or step mashing for beta and alpha analyse, so I’m not surprised at all. Higher og with purely gain, not adding sugar = more unfermentable sugars from those grains

 

[TBryerton]

Most high gravity doubles and triples IPAs will have a FG OF 1.018-1.020. They’re mashing 154-156 or step mashing for beta and alpha analyse, so I’m not surprised at all. Higher og with purely gain, not adding sugar = more unfermentable sugars from those grains

Taste perception is thicker than other triples I’ve had. The veil / Omnipollo triple I had doesn’t display the abv prominately and it wasn’t until someone pointed it out that I realized it was 11%. Explained why I was slurring my words

 

[skibb]

I’m not denying your experience, but it seems odd that bio hopping, is causing your creep. There is plenty of yeast available after fermentation, even if you soft crash to drop most of the yeast before dryhoping, so you should be dropping those points if the maltrose is being broken down by enzymes from the hops. Luckily you can account for over attention in your recipe. The bigger problem with the creep is the formation of VDK and acetaldehyde. To combat this, I know breweries, such as sloop who I got this info from, are soft crashing to mid/upper 50s to drop yeast and to make them much less active and dryhoping there since it’s still warm enough for extraction. Kills two birds one stone, prevents creep and drops yeast prior to dryhoping so the yeast stripping doesn’t occur

I agree, there is usually plenty of yeast, especially when using a medium/low flocculating strain (I use a high floccing English one) in solution - though they are not very active and generally creep is very low to nil. You are right, the bigger concern in this situation is VDK/diacetyl, as the yeast can be active enough to start metabolizing newly available sugars but may not finish. This is partly the reason why we DH the way we do at my brewery and what yeast we choose to use.

It doesn't seem odd to me at all that my creep is happening early and fast, I have a ton of active yeast in solution. Lots of agitation. Luckily, this also reduces my chances of developing diacetyl (only time we detect it is ~24 of 1st DH), because my yeast are chugging along.

Like I said, don't be surprised if when you degas your favorite hazy IPA, the FG varies slightly between batches. Every breweries techniques differ, some may be better than others, but with such heavy DH rates you see these days in his particular style, we all deal with a little creep from time to time.

 

[beervoid]

You say that so nonchalantly; If you could answer how to do this, you could give a talk at CBC and it would probably be the most well attended, no joke. It is one of the hottest topics in recent years - there could easily be a whole other thread about controlling the hop creep and consistency.

We force ferment every batch of NE/hazy IPA we brew, and regularly see that bio dry hopped ones finish anywhere from 1-3 SG points lower. The biggest contributing factor we've noticed is sourcing of the hop crop. Generally, hops from the same lots have much less FG variance between brews.

This proves problematic for the vast majority of breweries out there, as contracts are lean if exist at all, and the majority of our hops come from various sources on the secondary market. OH is definitely big enough to have some hefty contracts, but I would be surprised if all of their hops come from them.

/end off-topic hop creep info

I'm just speculating and was assuming that the amount of unfermentable sugars released by the interaction from the enzymes with the unfermentable sugars in the wort would be similar if you would use the same grainbill.
Given enough hops (and boy do they use alot) I would then think there would always be the same amount of gravity drop.

 

[ApolloMC]

Can someone clarify the best yeast for this recipe? OP states Gigayeast Vermont Ale but there is no such thing. GigaYeast Vermont IPA (GY054)? Yeast Bay makes Vermont Ale, which is supposedly conan as well.

This recipe looks amazing. Can't wait to give it a go.

 

[Dgallo]

Can someone clarify the best yeast for this recipe? OP states Gigayeast Vermont Ale but there is no such thing. GigaYeast Vermont IPA (GY054)? Yeast Bay makes Vermont Ale, which is supposedly conan as well.

This recipe looks amazing. Can't wait to give it a go.

You can literally use many different yeast you can use. Burlington Ale, London Ale, Imperial A04, Imperial Juice, London Fog, but my favorite for any style of NEIPA is Imperial A24 -Dryhop. All of the yeast are peach/citrus ester forward and really aid the hops. I believe in underpitching these yeast and have gotten nice results at .5-6

 

[ApolloMC]

You can literally use many different yeast you can use. Burlington Ale, London Ale, Imperial A04, Imperial Juice, London Fog, but my favorite for any style of NEIPA is Imperial A24 -Dryhop. All of the yeast are peach/citrus ester forward and really aid the hops. I believe in underpitching these yeast and have gotten nice results at .5-6

Thanks. I've used Burlington Ale and London 3 several times before. Burlington never really gave me what I was looking for in an NEIPA, and while London 3 always got the job done, I'd like to try an actual conan strain if I can find one.. I'm just trying to determine what the OP suggests, since he only called it out by name and it seems to be a combination of two brands.

It might be a moot point anyway. I only have access to White Labs, Wyeast and Omega locally, and I don't plan on ordering any liquid yeast this time of year. I'll probably give Omega DIPA Ale a try.

And thanks for the tip on under pitching. I've heard this before but never gave it a lot of thought. I'll probably try and pitch as you suggest, at a .5-.6 rate.

 

[Dgallo]

Thanks. I've used Burlington Ale and London 3 several times before. Burlington never really gave me what I was looking for in an NEIPA, and while London 3 always got the job done, I'd like to try an actual conan strain if I can find one.. I'm just trying to determine what the OP suggests, since he only called it out by name and it seems to be a combination of two brands.

It might be a moot point anyway. I only have access to White Labs, Wyeast and Omega locally, and I don't plan on ordering any liquid yeast this time of year. I'll probably give Omega DIPA Ale a try.

And thanks for the tip on under pitching. I've heard this before but never gave it a lot of thought. I'll probably try and pitch as you suggest, at a .5-.6 rate.

Burlington ale is a connan strain. So is A04 and A24 is a blend of a connan strain. All connan strains are all temp specific to be able to gain the esters and need to be under pitched to get them. You can either ferment at a constant 63*f but I personally don’t get as much esters with the temp as I do with the temp drive I use. Pitch 68 let it free rise to 72ish in the next day and a half then push it to 74 for the remainder of highly active fermentation. Then let it natural fall to the 70-72 and hold it there until you drop the yeast or dryhop

 

[ApolloMC]

Burlington ale is a connan strain. So is A04 and A24 is a blend of a connan strain. All connan strains are all temp specific to be able to gain the esters and need to be under pitched to get them. You can either ferment at a constant 63*f but I personally don’t get as much esters with the temp as I do with the temp drive I use. Pitch 68 let it free rise to 72ish in the next day and a half then push it to 74 for the remainder of highly active fermentation. Then let it natural fall to the 70-72 and hold it there until you drop the yeast or dryhop

I was never all that convinced that Burlington Ale was conan. At the bottom of this thread, there is a quoted email from a White Labs rep, saying it's "Conan Like". They also note in that thread that the temp range and flocc characteristics for WLP095 are different than those noted from other yeast manufacturers, all of which leads one to believe it's not quite conan. The WL rep also notes that strains do evolve over time, so it's very likely they all came from the same source at one time.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/wlp095-sposed-to-be-conan.571011/

At the end of the day I bet it would do just fine. When I used it in the past I was bottling and my water chemistry wasn't quite on point yet, so that all affected the outcome. Probably more than the yeast did I bet (I know, bottling an NEIPA is a sin, I keg now). One of these days maybe i'll do a split batch and try WLP095 next to an Omega or Imperial strain.

Speaking of Imperial, I'll have to wait until the colder months and order some. None of the local shops near me carry it.

 

[Dgallo]

Speaking of Imperial, I'll have to wait until the colder months and order some. None of the local shops near me carry it.

A24 is a terrific yeast. If you’re in a good morebeer location I know it can be 2 days and they willl ice pack it.

 

[BeerFst]

assuming Morristown is Morristown NJ consider ordering from https://www.fermentednj.com/

They do pretty great sales as their yeast reaches its life, i just got two packs of imperial for 5 each, a month left on the best by date. went ahead and got the ice pack and the special envelope for a dollar or two extra. it was 2 day shipping, and the yeast showed up with no issue to Long Island

 

[brewpharm Hill]

other half has said in their IG posts in the past "fermented with vermont yeast" for their daydreams and other hazy IPAs. Idk if this is what they still use or not, but when I used the vermont yeast (conan, any type of it) it was the closest I could get to their flavor. Mind you, it was my first attempt and requires a lot of tweaking - both in the recipe and fermentation. I haven't brewed this since I posted this and i actually just moved down the street from Other Half... so it may be time to give it another go

 

[Blazinlow86]

You can literally use many different yeast you can use. Burlington Ale, London Ale, Imperial A04, Imperial Juice, London Fog, but my favorite for any style of NEIPA is Imperial A24 -Dryhop. All of the yeast are peach/citrus ester forward and really aid the hops. I believe in underpitching these yeast and have gotten nice results at .5-6

I agree. A24 dryhop is my favorite also. Cheers

 

[h0psnobery]

dang, just one more beer I need to add to my to-brew list. looks delicious!

 

[beervoid]

I was never all that convinced that Burlington Ale was conan. At the bottom of this thread, there is a quoted email from a White Labs rep, saying it's "Conan Like". They also note in that thread that the temp range and flocc characteristics for WLP095 are different than those noted from other yeast manufacturers, all of which leads one to believe it's not quite conan. The WL rep also notes that strains do evolve over time, so it's very likely they all came from the same source at one time.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/wlp095-sposed-to-be-conan.571011/

At the end of the day I bet it would do just fine. When I used it in the past I was bottling and my water chemistry wasn't quite on point yet, so that all affected the outcome. Probably more than the yeast did I bet (I know, bottling an NEIPA is a sin, I keg now). One of these days maybe i'll do a split batch and try WLP095 next to an Omega or Imperial strain.

Speaking of Imperial, I'll have to wait until the colder months and order some. None of the local shops near me carry it.

I've been brewing with WLP095, Gigayeast Conan, The Yeast Bay Vermont, and Imperial Barbarian. I always do split batches.
They all smell the same, they all attenuate the same.

 

[Eric Rioux]

Hi all,

Great thread here. I'm getting back into brewing after a long sabbatical and want to give brewing an OH dream-style NEIPA a shot. I've got the concept and recipe pinned down at this point (thanks in large to this thread) but was curious what folks recommend for good basic water test kits and supplies? My past brews have not paid much attention to water characteristics beyond chlorine.

Any recommendations would be appreciated!

 

[Dgallo]

Hi all,

Great thread here. I'm getting back into brewing after a long sabbatical and want to give brewing an OH dream-style NEIPA a shot. I've got the concept and recipe pinned down at this point (thanks in large to this thread) but was curious what folks recommend for good basic water test kits and supplies? My past brews have not paid much attention to water characteristics beyond chlorine.

Any recommendations would be appreciated!

Where do you live? You can probably find your water report online. I not call your town soil and water department, they should be able to provide you with it. It varies but they will give you adequate report to work from

 

[Eric Rioux]

Where do you live? You can probably find your water report online. I not call your town soil and water department, they should be able to provide you with it. It varies but they will give you adequate report to work from

Here's the town water report:
https://www.eastlongmeadowma.gov/DocumentCenter/View/8222/2018-Water-Quality-Report-PWS-ID-1085000

I'll have to find time to read it in more detail, but a quick search didn't turn up calcium or sulfate. I suppose I can call the town and see what they tell me.

So when folks talk about adjusting their water, wouldn't this involve adding or filtering various chemicals/elements and testing on-site to get things where they want them? Sorry for the newbie questions!