Optimum Wyeast 1318 London Ale III Fermentation Temp for NEIPA?

[ultravista]

For those who use Wyeast 1318 London Ale III for a Norther Eastern Style IPA, what is your optimum fermentation temperature?

This is my first time brewing a NEIPA and first time using LA III.

 

[Harry482]

I've used it as my house strain for years and normally start it out at 66 for the first 4-5 days, then let it ride up to room temp to finish off. I measure 66 from a thermowell - not ambient. It works well for me with no off flavors. I'm sure you could go a few deg. cooler or warmer with no issues. It's a great strain!

 

[Morrey]

subscribed

 

[Jtk78]

Just did one in a swamp cooler with 2 fish tank heaters. Swamp cooler filled with water to just below level of beer in fermenter. Ambient temp on space was 55-60f, I set the heaters to 64-65 degrees with a temp controller. After 4 days raised it 1 degree, then gently ramped it over the next 4 days to 69. Temp probe taped to outside of fermenter under the water line.

 

[Oldskewl]

Same for me. I pitch at 65, hold at 66 for 5 days and then gradually take it to 70 over a 2 or 3 days. Always finishes and no off flavors

 

[Morrey]

Same for me. I pitch at 65, hold at 66 for 5 days and then gradually take it to 70 over a 2 or 3 days. Always finishes and no off flavors

I usually set my ATC at a temp that is optimum for that particular strain and just leave it there for the long haul, but 1318 (and NEIPA) is new to me. Do you feel there is an advantage to moving the set temp during fermentation?

Reason I ask is I plan to dry hop in the primary during the last stages of fermentation which is basically at the point you are moving your temps to 70F. Formulating my game plan for my first NEIPA.

 

[Jtk78]

My first dry hop was on day 3, about 74 hours post pitch. I hadn't moved my temperature yet. I did my final dry hop 11 days post pitch, which was the same day I did the final bump in temperature. Cold crash on day 14, bottle on day 17.

I think the advantage of moving the temp up is better attenuation and making sure fermentation is complete prior to packaging. Everyone has a different way to get to get to the end goal though, so ymmv.

 

[Oldskewl]

I do the first dry hop on day 3 or 4 in the primary and let it in for 6 days. I guess it's a habit I've gotten into on ale yeasts. I ramp up the temp a few degrees over the last few days to help the yeast finish. 1318 has been a beast for me. You can surely do it at a steady temp and monitor your results. I do my second dry hop in the Keg.

 

[ultravista]

Thanks everyone. I'll keep it in the mid-60's until fermentation dies down a little then ramp it up.

Another question ... I may be able to do a split batch, say 5 gallons in one carboy and 2-3 gallons in another. My ferm controller only has room for one carboy, therefore, the other would ferment at ambient temperature (around 70-73f).

Does anyone foresee a problem with the smaller batch fermenting at ambient temperature? Would a warmer ferment @ 72F produce undesirable results?

 

[Oldskewl]

You may get some more esters. Just be cautious, ambient temp might be 72F but usually 4-5 degrees higher inside the fermentor during fermentation.

 

[ultravista]

I should be able to drop it a little below ambient if placed on the tile on the far side of the house and draped w/wet towels. It would be interesting to experience the difference in +/- 10 degree (F) fermentation temperature.

 

[hockeybrewer]

I think that would be a great comparison especially with summer around the corner. I'm fermenting my third batch now with 1318 and I'm trying mid to low 60s for 3 days then letting it rise to 67ish. Keep us updated if you do the split batch!!

 

[gifty74]

I just brewed last weekend with this yeast, IPA. OG was 1.074 and I pitched a healthy starter right around 65°F, let it free rise in my basement closet over the next few days. Temp inside rose to 74-76F, haven't detected any off flavors. Pretty active, brew off out of my airlock valve (better bottle airlock0. The bigger disappointment was that it has finished at 1.018, and has left a faint hint of residual sweetness. Was really hoping for 1.012-1.014, but didn't get there. You wouldn't think 4 points would do much, but it seems to have in this one. Maybe it'll clean up a bit once cold crashed in the keg. Going to dry hop in the keg and get it on tap. Going to naturally carb this one this time with the dry hops in there using my spund valve.

 

[ultravista]

Mine finished at 1.019-.020 and it tastes great. Tested w/two hydrometers, I thought too that .20 would be too sweet. Surprise, it wasn't.

 

[sjfischr]

Let me bump this thread after a month:
I've had generally good success using this for NE IPAs, but here are my recommendations:
--66 for first few days of primary, then gradually increase to about 69
--I've had some problems with getting this strain to attenuate to anywhere below 1.020. My $0.02 is that the starches in high protein grains take way longer to ferment. This is evidenced by longer fermentation activity compared with just malted barley. So the best thing to do IMHO is overpitch---like crazy. I am trying this on 6/21 and will update with the results in one week. Cheers.

 

[marjen]

I am typically in the mid-high 60s. Seems no matter where I start and I have started anywhere from 1.054 to 1.074, this yeast always ends up between 1.008 and 1.014

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I use this yeast a lot. I've done 64 and 66 degrees, first dry hop about 48-60 hours. I usually raise the temp to 69 when airlock activity stops...Usually by day 5 or 6. I drop the second dry hop at the same time I raise the temp and let it ride for 5 days. Cold crash for 48 hours or so and closed transfer to a keg for carbonation.

MY NEIPAs have been in the 1.060-1.068 OG range and have finished in the 1.012-1.014 range. I always make a 1.5 liter starter which I cold crash, decant and allow to get to room temp while I'm brewing.

I really like this yeast for NEIPAs. If it weren't for the fact that I love the beer I'm getting with my current process, I'd try a batch starting at 69 degrees just to see what it does for the beer.

This is a typical beer I've done with 1318:

 

[Yooper]

The one I"m drinking now started at 1.060 and ended at 1.010, fermented at 68 degrees. I kegged it on about day 12.

I didn't make a starter, because it was an impromptu brewday. The yeast was fresh, though, thank goodness! I had no issues with a slow fermentation or a stall. I'll make notes on how the second generation does.

This turned out so very good! I used azacca, mandarina bavaria, and citra hops for the late/whirlpool/dryhops and a little CTZ for bittering. I'm making this one again for sure.

 

[Germainium]

Late to this thread but wanted to ask a question to people who have used this yeast often. Do you notice a similarity in flavor across all of those beers, despite changes to hops? I've noticed that I almost always get a similar orange juice/grapefruit flavor and cannot detect massive differences in what I would expect from different hops.

I've brewed about 6 NEIPAs with this yeast all with slight variations to malt bills and always different hop combinations. I brew 2.5-3 gallon (in fermenter) batches and pitch straight from a ballooned smack pack after using an aerator for about 30 mins. I'm fermenting at ~67, dry hopping 2 days in, then free rising at about 7 when I'm nearing or at FG, then second dry hopping in keg.

Now I'm not comparing side by side, but I do notice a similarity across different hop combos so I'm wondering if I should ferment at a lower temp to reduce the ester production from maybe taking over more of the hops?

I mainly noticed cause I've made my last two with nelson and enigma hops, respectively and I didn't notice any white wine characteristics that are mentioned with these hops.

Any thoughts would be helpful!

 

[Germainium]

I should also add, I'm controlling temp via cubic freezer and heater wrap and have the probe mounted to my stainless fermenter under painters putty (works great to insulate). This is place in an area the heater wrap doesn't touch and is in the center of where the beer volume would be.

 

[ryanm8]

Let me bump this thread after a month:
I've had generally good success using this for NE IPAs, but here are my recommendations:
--66 for first few days of primary, then gradually increase to about 69
--I've had some problems with getting this strain to attenuate to anywhere below 1.020. My $0.02 is that the starches in high protein grains take way longer to ferment. This is evidenced by longer fermentation activity compared with just malted barley. So the best thing to do IMHO is overpitch---like crazy. I am trying this on 6/21 and will update with the results in one week. Cheers.

Some of my observations:
The first beer I made with 1318 did not attenuate well either. It went from about 1.055 to 1.020. I did not use a starter, but used the smack pack and the beer took off quickly within a few hours. For this NEIPA, I had about 20% flaked oats and 20% carapils, so I am not too surprised by the attenuation. The beer tasted great and was not too sweet. The same recipe with Conan finished at 1.012-1.014.

I brewed the same recipe again, but this time used the harvested 1318 yeast from the previous batch. This one finished at around 1.016. Taste was similar.

I have another 1318 batch that is fermenting now. This time I changed the recipe to the one in the Braufessor thread. I harvested the yeast again from my previous batch, but I felt like I did not harvest enough of it, so I made a starter to increase my cell count. I pitched a huge amount of yeast into this batch and it went from 1.050 to 1.010 in 2 days! I'll measure again when bottling to see if it goes down any more.

 

[phillip_h]

I made a 2L starter and pitched it at 67° into my 1.060 wort and it fermented down to 1.010 in 60 hours.

 

[Morrey]

I made a 2L starter and pitched it at 67° into my 1.060 wort and it fermented down to 1.010 in 60 hours.

Yeah, I call this yeast an "over-achiever"! Not unusual for the krausen to be so high it blows into the BO line and sanitizer jug...and this is with a tank having 33% headspace.

For those of use who do a dry hop addition during active fermentation with perhaps 20% remaining, it requires a watchful eye to catch fermentation at the right stage. I typically make that dry hop addition on day 2 while there are a few points left to go.

 

[phillip_h]

Yeah, I call this yeast an "over-achiever"! Not unusual for the krausen to be so high it blows into the BO line and sanitizer jug...and this is with a tank having 33% headspace.

For those of use who do a dry hop addition during active fermentation with perhaps 20% remaining, it requires a watchful eye to catch fermentation at the right stage. I typically make that dry hop addition on day 2 while there are a few points left to go.

Yeah, I did my first dry hop right on top of the krausen about 40 hrs after pitching yeast. I don't think I have ever seen a more vigorous fermentation.

 

[thehaze]

Temps. between 66 and 76F will not produce off-flavours with this yeast, at least that is my experience. Also, it attenuates well for an English strain. Anything between 74 and 78% attenuation and you can definitely get dry beers with this strain/West Coast style.

 

[Jtk78]

Yeah, I call this yeast an "over-achiever"! Not unusual for the krausen to be so high it blows into the BO line and sanitizer jug...and this is with a tank having 33% headspace.

For those of use who do a dry hop addition during active fermentation with perhaps 20% remaining, it requires a watchful eye to catch fermentation at the right stage. I typically make that dry hop addition on day 2 while there are a few points left to go.

You're not kidding!!

7 gallon Fermonster Blowout

• Jtk78
• Feb 6, 2018

WY1318 goes volcanic

 

[Morrey]

Whoa Nelly....I thought mine was a mess. ^^^

 

[Jtk78]

Whoa Nelly....I thought mine was a mess. ^^^

Luckily it was I'm a tub with water, so for the most part, it was contained.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw I run 1318 and A38 at 65°F for the first 3 days then do a controlled rise to 68°F over the next 4 days where it stays until it's time to cold-crash. All in a ferm fridge controlled by the wort temperature. Both strains have been well behaved and quite stellar wrt finish.
Haven't decided which I prefer yet, they are so similar..

Cheers!

 

[Soyben]

I used a bubble air lock once with 1318, saw it was going to get out of hand and switched to a blow off tube before it made a mess. Never thought about using one of those again.

I tend to leave it a 66 for the duration my brews usually finish at 1.016.

 

[Hopping4Hops]

I brewed my first NEIPA using this yeast, second brew so far, first time using a temperature controller for the fermentation. I set the temp at 19C (66F), but with a 2 degree delay, so it fermented mostly at 20C (68F) for 39 hours. Then I checked the gravity, find it had dropped from 14 to 8 Brix. However, I opened the bucket to dry hop and found it frothy. I harvested some yeast and dry hopped, watching it froth up again quite quickly. So, if this frothing means it is on high krausen and fermenting strongly, how are the brix readings explained? I also had mashed quite high, starting at 68C (154F).

 

[D20]

I've used 1318 for nearly every batch I've made for the past 18 months or so, all from the same batch of yeast. I've always top-cropped on day 3 of fermentation and reused the yeast in subsequent brews. One thing I've noticed in taking 1318 through so many generations is that it gets more finicky about temperatures. Right now I can't get it to do anything below 66f. But if I start it at 67f, watch out. It'll take off like crazy. Just sharing that in case some of you are cropping and reusing this strain. I don't remember 1318 starting off that way, but definitely by the 7th or 8th generation I had to be more careful about the starting temp.

 

[samandbekah]

For those of you making NE IPAs... How's the aroma/nose been with 1318?

I've been using Vermont Ale from the Yeast Bay for my NE IPAs... it always starts off well and ferments quickly. I typically pitch at 64 and temp control it a degree or two per day until it hits 70/71 by day 5/6. Then I add my dry hops and attempt to bung it to naturally carb and capture the dry hop aroma. The beer is great aromatically for the first week (after the yeast bite drops out) but I notice as time goes on (weeks 3 to 4 and beyond) the aroma collapses. Maybe even as early as week the later half of week 2. Flavor hangs on strong but the aroma isn't as quite "right out of the bag".

Curious to know what anyone here has had for results in comparison with 1318.

 

[Upthewazzu]

Most folks in this thread recommend mid-60's as a starting point. I'm wondering if anyone lets it ride around 70°+?

My next NEIPA will be a mix of 1318 and 1272, both underpitched without a starter.

 

[couchsending]

For long lasting punchy aroma you need to keep O2 to zero and also get as much yeast as possible out of the beer before last DH addition... some yeasts you can crash to 60 and they’ll flocc some you need to go lower. Aroma from dry hopping in the high 50s/low 60s will last longer as well. Dry hopping during fermentation (always after krausen has fallen) will provide some aroma but it’s impact is more flavor based.

Also from a brewer who has been using 1318 as his house yeast since the mid 90s and has won piles of medals at GABF including IIPA and IPA and yes makes awesome hazy beer too. For hoppy beers he ferments at 66 and leaves it there, sometimes will ramp to 68 with a small amount of gravity left if diacetyl reduction was sluggish. He’ll wait two days after terminal, pull yeast, and DH. He only dry hops for 2 days at a time. Sometimes a second addition will be done in the bright tank. He makes wonderful beer and has actually won a GABF gold for cream ale with a large overpitch or 1318 fermented in the low 60s. He also mashes at 149 religiously in order to get the beer dry enough so it isn’t as sweet. 1318 is known for being rather soft and sweet especially at higher FG. Personally I can’t stand it above 1.014.

 

[day_trippr]

For long lasting punchy aroma you need to keep O2 to zero [...]

Obviously, zero ain't happening, but the lower one can keep the DO the longer all of the beer's better characters will last.
I agree oxidation is the prime suspect with any beer that the first pours present with a hoppy nose but that attenuates over a fairly short time (like a week or two).

Interesting thought about cold crashing before dry hopping, if only because it functionally contravenes part of the O2-avoidance thing.
I do not cold-crash before dry hopping, though the idea might spur me to try that on half of the next batch to get a direct comparison against the traditionally-hopped half...

Cheers!

 

[couchsending]

Obviously, zero ain't happening, but the lower one can keep the DO the longer all of the beer's better characters will last.
I agree oxidation is the prime suspect with any beer that the first pours present with a hoppy nose but that attenuates over a fairly short time (like a week or two).

Interesting thought about cold crashing before dry hopping, if only because it functionally contravenes part of the O2-avoidance thing.
I do not cold-crash before dry hopping, though the idea might spur me to try that on half of the next batch to get a direct comparison against the traditionally-hopped half...

Cheers!

Some yeasts you need to get really cold before they flocc others will drop with just a soft crash. Yes if you don’t have a way to maintain some sort of positive pressure O2 pickup is a real concern.

This is my procedure, I don’t have a unitank just some SS Chronicals. Put the pressure transfer piece on with say 1 Plato to go. It releases pressure above 2psi I think so it doesn’t really carbonate but it helps a little and helps maintain some pressure without having to use external CO2. Let it sit for a few days after TG then slowly bring down temps over a period of say 6-8hr or longer, depending on yeast strain and temp while maintaining positive pressure. Leave for say 24 hours, dump as much yeast as possible, once maybe twice. Let beer warm back up to around 60, attach Co2 to sample valve, bubble Co2 through beer to create Co2 environment, remove pressure transfer valve from top, drop in hops (that are crushed as much as possible) and re-attach transfer valve. Let sit at 60ish for 4 days or until Aroma is where u want. I will resuspend hops with C02 through the racking port a few times. Ideally then crash to as low as you can while again maintaining positive pressure, let sit for a few days to let as much Hop matter settle as possible and force transfer to a very well purged keg.

Awesome defined Hop character that lasts a long time.

 

[Tyler Hurst]

Just did one in a swamp cooler with 2 fish tank heaters. Swamp cooler filled with water to just below level of beer in fermenter. Ambient temp on space was 55-60f, I set the heaters to 64-65 degrees with a temp controller. After 4 days raised it 1 degree, then gently ramped it over the next 4 days to 69. Temp probe taped to outside of fermenter under the water line.

I would love to see a picture of your setup with some explanation of how it works?

 

[samandbekah]

Some yeasts you need to get really cold before they flocc others will drop with just a soft crash. Yes if you don’t have a way to maintain some sort of positive pressure O2 pickup is a real concern.

This is my procedure, I don’t have a unitank just some SS Chronicals. Put the pressure transfer piece on with say 1 Plato to go. It releases pressure above 2psi I think so it doesn’t really carbonate but it helps a little and helps maintain some pressure without having to use external CO2. Let it sit for a few days after TG then slowly bring down temps over a period of say 6-8hr or longer, depending on yeast strain and temp while maintaining positive pressure. Leave for say 24 hours, dump as much yeast as possible, once maybe twice. Let beer warm back up to around 60, attach Co2 to sample valve, bubble Co2 through beer to create Co2 environment, remove pressure transfer valve from top, drop in hops (that are crushed as much as possible) and re-attach transfer valve. Let sit at 60ish for 4 days or until Aroma is where u want. I will resuspend hops with C02 through the racking port a few times. Ideally then crash to as low as you can while again maintaining positive pressure, let sit for a few days to let as much Hop matter settle as possible and force transfer to a very well purged keg.

Awesome defined Hop character that lasts a long time.

Awesome notes here, following you on another thread so this detail is fantastic, thank you. I have a similar setup as you and will try this on my next double IPA... Question though is after you crash for the second time, how low do you go and how long do you hold for?

On my last IPA I crashed to 45 and held for 36 hours but still ended up getting him debris which clogged my ball valve on the keg and ultimately lost the closed transfer. It was about as pound of hops on 16 gallons of beer.

 

[samandbekah]

Some yeasts you need to get really cold before they flocc others will drop with just a soft crash. Yes if you don’t have a way to maintain some sort of positive pressure O2 pickup is a real concern.

This is my procedure, I don’t have a unitank just some SS Chronicals. Put the pressure transfer piece on with say 1 Plato to go. It releases pressure above 2psi I think so it doesn’t really carbonate but it helps a little and helps maintain some pressure without having to use external CO2. Let it sit for a few days after TG then slowly bring down temps over a period of say 6-8hr or longer, depending on yeast strain and temp while maintaining positive pressure. Leave for say 24 hours, dump as much yeast as possible, once maybe twice. Let beer warm back up to around 60, attach Co2 to sample valve, bubble Co2 through beer to create Co2 environment, remove pressure transfer valve from top, drop in hops (that are crushed as much as possible) and re-attach transfer valve. Let sit at 60ish for 4 days or until Aroma is where u want. I will resuspend hops with C02 through the racking port a few times. Ideally then crash to as low as you can while again maintaining positive pressure, let sit for a few days to let as much Hop matter settle as possible and force transfer to a very well purged keg.

Awesome defined Hop character that lasts a long time.

What kind of hardware are you using/attaching to the sample port to create the CO2 environment? I have the same fermenters as you. How are you accomplishing this without getting beer in your CO2 line? Cranking the PSI way up to compensate for the downward force from the beer?