dukedevil0
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I also just kegged a batch with Amarillo/Citra/Mosaic but kept the 1318. Did you do equal hop amounts 1:1:1 or another ratio? (I did equal)
New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA
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I also just kegged a batch with Amarillo/Citra/Mosaic but kept the 1318. Did you do equal hop amounts 1:1:1 or another ratio? (I did equal)
Beerdrinker85
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I did equal flameout/hopstand/dryhop
30min HopStand @ 160
6.5 gal batch (6 in fermenter), total hops:12 oz
One of my next experiment will be hopstanding at 180 to see if there is really a difference. I see many ppl whirlpooling at 180.
I think I did it once and saw no difference in tasting.
I read your initial post and grains like oats, wheat, etc don't add haze maybe a little but their not the sole reason. I believe it's the insane amount of hops used plus the dry hopping during active fermentation plus another dry hop that give haze. I use 1318 almost exclusively for my neipas, just a preference as it's given me what I've wanted but I did just use 04 on my latest due to time constraints for a starter and it's proper neipa haze. I also hopstand with anywhere from 6-8 oz and do another double dry hop with 4oz during day 3 usually and another 4oz 5 days later so I use about 1lb of hops in a typical 5 gal batch for a neipa whether it's 6% or 8% and they always look, taste and smell the part. I'm not trying to showboat on my hop use as I know others go even bigger but just trying to tell ya what I've done in my 2yrs of making these beers and how it's effected the finished beer.
Just adding thoughts but if they're similar in aa I'll add 1:1 but if they're diff like way diff like Amarillo which is usually in the 7%aa vs cites or mosaic in the 12-14%aa I'll add more Amarillo if I want it's orange, tangerine flavor to not be completely bowled over by the heavier hops. In this case frankly I'd do a 2:1:1 since you'd have to double the amount of Amarillo to keep up with the heavier citra and mosaic hops. This is what i do for a IPA I make with Amarillo and galaxy and galaxy usually comes in at the 13-15%aa area.
Mordhaus
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"Remember Rappin' Duke? Duh-hah, Duh-hah. You never thought that hip hop would take it this far."
Saw the screen name. Had to get that out of my system. Carry on.
Deckers_Beers
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Ah, that's interesting, I thought it was a combo of the flaked grains along with the yeast & the dry-hopping during primary fermentation. So you're saying the most important part is the dry-hopping?
I had read previously that flaked oats are a good addition for a brighter hazy color. My 1st batch didn't have any oats, & was that kind of darker orange-y color some neipa's have. In the 2nd batch (w/ a full lb of flaked oats), my hydrometer samples were super hazy & bright. but then they cleared up after bottling...
In both of my batches, I used a full lb of hops in a 5 gallon batch, but I put the 1st dry-hop addition in on day 2 on the 1st batch (very hazy), & day 4 on the 2nd batch (pretty clear). Maybe the fermentation wasn't high enough on the 4th day, & I should've done the 2nd or 3rd?
Thanks for the help!
cheesebach
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In my experience, the long-lasting haze is a result of the pre-fermentation process. My unscientific hypothesis is that it's an interaction of the flaked grains and large amount of late hops. The beers that didn't lose their hazy character after almost 2 months in the keg were just as hazy in the sample I pulled post-boil even after letting things settle overnight. The others that were less hazy after the boil (used whirlfloc) got more hazy after fermentation/dry hop, but lost a lot of the haze after 2-3 weeks in the keg (basically ended up back at their pre-fermentation haze level). I no longer use whirlfloc in this style for this reason.
Even without whirlfloc, I haven't ever gotten the same level of haze post-boil in other IPAs that don't use flaked grains but have similar water profiles and quantities of late hops additions.
Even without whirlfloc, I haven't ever gotten the same level of haze post-boil in other IPAs that don't use flaked grains but have similar water profiles and quantities of late hops additions.
stickyfinger
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You don't NEED flaked grains at all for haze. They may contribute at times, but I have found that the yeast can make a huge difference, and the hops can make a huge difference. Some varietals of hops and especially in large amounts (duh) created more haze. Also, some yeast can hang around forever, 1318 is always hazy for me with a lot of hops.
MrBlackrock
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Latest batch
Looks tasty.
Didnt have rapid acces to the yeast so went with Nottingham X 2 (just in case)
Hopefully will turn out good.
Oh, also subbed Galaxy for Azacca(Didnt have any galaxy)
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This sucker still has some punch at 2 months old. Simcoe, Mosaic, Citra. Dry hops were all 1oz Cryo Hops.
View attachment 1504702679258.jpg
View attachment 1504702679258.jpg
stickyfinger
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kegged any more IPAs?
MMJfan
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I brewed up a variation based on the OP's recipe this past weekend and I can't wait to see how it turns out!
I bittered with Columbus @60. I then added 2 oz. of Citra, 2 oz. of Mosaic and 1 oz. of Amarillo at flameout and the same amount of Citra/Mosaic/Amarillo at a hopstand at 180F. And I'm planning on dry hopping tomorrow with the same amount of Citra/Mosaic/Amarillo so that adds up to 1 lb of hops for my brew!
Had to add a blow off tube yesterday and the smells coming out of my bucket were amazing!!!
I bittered with Columbus @60. I then added 2 oz. of Citra, 2 oz. of Mosaic and 1 oz. of Amarillo at flameout and the same amount of Citra/Mosaic/Amarillo at a hopstand at 180F. And I'm planning on dry hopping tomorrow with the same amount of Citra/Mosaic/Amarillo so that adds up to 1 lb of hops for my brew!
Had to add a blow off tube yesterday and the smells coming out of my bucket were amazing!!!
Brewed this almost two weeks ago and added the 6 oz dry hop Sunday before leaving on a business trip. Planning on kegging tomorrow or Saturday but the dry hops are all still sitting on top of the beer. Ferm fridge smells great! But wondering, anyone have any best practice of avoiding transferring a ton of hop material when racking to a keg? I use a Fermonster with a spigot so I can obviously stop racking as the beer level gets down near the spigot and just accept the amount of beer lost to the fermenter.
If you don't cold crash like me, I have found that moving my fermonster to where I rack, breaks that surface tension, and the hops will fall (Not a physicist).
OP
OP
Yep - I move my fermenters a couple times, including to a counter top a day or two before I rack to keg.... that movement seems to go a long way to helping the hops drop out of suspension and fall to the bottom.
WiscoBrewer
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What I've done is just give it, carboy in my case, a lil spin back and forth to break the surface tension and they start dropping immediately. Not a shake or violent splashing spin though.
grassfeeder
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I just loosely bag my dry hops and don't have to worry about them dropping out. weigh them down about mid-fermenter with marbles. always had great results that way.
Just bought a bunch of Cryo Citra and Mosaic. I've heard that they might be better utilized in the whirlpool/hop stand vs. dry hop. How did yours come out?
For those that don't cold crash, have you had issues with the first pours out of the keg? I tried to pour a glass yesterday a day after kegging to see the carbonation level (set at 30 PSI) and the beer looked like split pea soup and tasted very harsh. Like eating a hop. I'm assuming from effectively cold crashing in the keg, that the pour was primarily hop material and any residual yeast.
Any experiences with this?
Any experiences with this?
TomRep
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Has anyone who used cryo hops is n these ever noticed a chalky/dryness in the back of your throat when drinking the finished product? Almost like a slight burn or something. I used 3 ounces of cryo in my last batch (2.5 Oz in the whirlpool and a half ounce in dry hops) and I noticed this. It was my fourth NEIPA batch and the first time using cryo and this is the first I noticed this. I thought it may have been from the beer being young (although I drink them all at the same age), but the same feeling/taste was there until the very last pour. I'm brewing a batch either today or tomorrow and am contemplating using them again for this reason.
Tom
Tom
grassfeeder
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I haven't had this as I bag the hops and weigh them down. first pour may have some residual yeast but thats it. I usually pour out the first half pint anyhow as my tap usually has some sanitizer in it anyhow.
cheesebach
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I've gotten this effect in both homebrewed and commercial NEIPAs before. The commercial beers that I've noticed it in have been a Pinthouse Pizza brew I had on draft at the brewpub and a Trillium beer I had just yesterday. Not sure on the type of hops used in either of those though.
I've not used Cryo hops before, but the homebrew I did that had it was a Citra/Azacca/Mosaic NEIPA I did earlier this year. It was actually a split batch between WY1318 and Conan. Oddly, the WY1318 batch had this particular off flavor, but I couldn't detect it in the Conan batch. I'm thinking it's a yeast/hop interaction as I can't think of any other way to explain this result, but not sure what causes it or how to prevent it. Seems to me the pros haven't figured this out yet either.
Same here - I call it the "yeast burn", and I've tasted it in some Trillium beers. I just made a beer with Cryo hops, and it has this flavor big time. But I've also gotten it with regular hops. I've also made clean beers using similar recipes and similar but probably not exact processes. I wish I could figure out the cause, and how to avoid it. I have a feeling it has to do with ferment time/temp and maybe dry hops times/temps.
TomRep
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Well as for the fermentation temperature and all the brewing mechanics, I can almost positively rule that out. I'm a bit of an OCD person and when it comes to brewing, that end of it is all identical. The three batches I did before using the cryo hops did not have this effect, except for one batch when I was sampling it out of the fermenter. Once it was on tap, that "flavor" or burn was gone. The only two things that were different in this batch were the cryo hops and I used Imperial Juice yeast for the first time. I'm using S04 in this batch, so maybe I will give the cryo a chance again here and if I get the same effect, brew the same thing next time without the cryo and see if it disappears.
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Unfortunately life is chaotic right now. Did buy grains...but IDK when a brew day will arrive.
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2 months in had nice flavor. I'd rather cryo hops be the last hops my beer sees personally. A side by side test would be a great idea.
I am fairly convinced it's a yeast issue - the fact that you used a different yeast enforces that belief. I use 1318, and I know it's different than S-04, but I think they behave similar. Is there a Wyeast equiv to Imperial Juice?
I can not figure out why some people manage to make clean beer with 1318 consistently, but I get seemingly random results. I may not be consistent with my fermentation and conditioning temps. I also seem to get diacetyl now and then with 1318. I love the yeast when it works better than any other, but it's problematic for me.
ttuato
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My vote goes to WY1318 as being the culprit. It appears in every single batch that I brew with WY1318 ---- I no longer use this yeast. I have tried multiple hop combos, but it is always present. I did a direct comparison split batch with Conan - no off flavor it Conan.
Given the success of this yeast as shown on this thread, I ascribe it to be a difference in taste sensitivities / preferences. The unfortunate thing is that in my experience, once your tastebuds are "trained" to perceive a flavor it becomes very obvious when encountered. I can identify wy1318 almost without fail (I don't know how to describe the flavor). Also, I can identify mosaic hops 100% of the time (all I taste is garlic / onion).
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The last batch was 1318. 2 week fermentation/rest and a couple degrees higher then usual for me at 67. No diacetyl, which has been an issue foe me this year. I bought another batch but probably wont get to it for a while.
I agree eon the WY1318 yeast. I brewed a NEIPA and got an excessive burn/astringency when brewing this style of beer. Ive since then brewed the same beer with WY1056 and WY1272 without this "burn" present. So far WY1272 is my go to yeast for this style of beer. In the next couple of weeks I plan to brew a Citra and Azacca NEIPA variant. For the citra hops in the whirlpool and dry hop I plan to use the cryno hops/powder. Ive been told to cut the hop addition by half when using the cryno hops which i plan to follow for this first run. fingers crossed for good results
PianoMan - what was your dry hop schedule? How long did it sit on hops?
You had no astringent yeast taste nor diacetyl?
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Definitely no diacetyl. Maybe a bit cloromine..phenol?? But thats a different issue I think. If you look back a while, I explain my technique and foul ups. Basiclly only had the Cryo Hops in for 10min.
So PianoMan, looking back you seem to have had diacetyl issue with this beer when you kegged it. But then did you switch to bottling to avoid it? (My theory would be that the yeast in the bottle eats the diacetyl when carbing).
So has anyone else figured out how to avoid diacetyl with 1318 when kegging? I would assume a diacetyl rest at 70f or above after fermentation - but when I do that I tend to get the yeast burn/bite. Does anyone have a sure fire fermentation/dryhop temp/time schedule for 1318 to avoid both?
So has anyone else figured out how to avoid diacetyl with 1318 when kegging? I would assume a diacetyl rest at 70f or above after fermentation - but when I do that I tend to get the yeast burn/bite. Does anyone have a sure fire fermentation/dryhop temp/time schedule for 1318 to avoid both?
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No. I bottled on the beginning, switched to kegging. Keggorator died then started bottling again. I sample 100% pre secondary or bottling (kegging). NEVER detected diacetyl. Only IPAs, only post kegging and after 4 days or so and not everytime. Lengthy discussion on the subject here also.
mintyice
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Ferment longer? Never had a diacetyl problem with 1318.
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Y'all are going to make me brew...wasn't planning to. Possibly friday or Saturday. I'll keep detailed notes and report back in a few weeks.
stickyfinger
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I've left some of my super hoppy ipas for a month, and they still had diacetyl precursors. I am suffering mightily from diacetyl right now as well, but am doing some testing to see if I can get rid of it better.
I would LOVE it if people would do me a favor and test some of their fermented, dry-hopped IPA at racking for diacety precursors. I am curious if most people are free from precursor or are just kegging with precursor and making it long enough that diacetyl doesn't show up or maybe having yeast chew it up even at cold temps. All you have to do is save a little bit of wort in a container and put plastic wrap on it. put it into a hot water bath at like 140-160F (i use 160ish usually) for 20 minutes. take it out and chill it down a bit and take a whiff. Do you smell diacetyl or not, lots or not much? This would help me gather information about what is going on with me!!! Thanks!
That's exactly what I experience. Only sometimes, and only after several days to a week in the keg. At first, it's awesome, but over several days the hop brilliance gives way to diacetyl. Even when given a lengthy secondary time (but below 70f)
In my last batch I gave it an extended conditioning time, and raised the temp to over 70, and ended up with the yeast burn flavor big time.
I am wondering if both have to do with the dry hop timing/temp. One theory I have read is that the dry hops introduce enzymes that break some of the unfermentable sugars into simpler fermentable ones. Then the yeast starts working on it, creating diacetyl precursors. If you don;t give the yeast time after dry hopping, then it won;t be able to clean up, and you will get diacetyl.
If that's true, it seems like you need to either dry hop quickly and cold crash it so the yeast does not get to work on the sugars, or give a long enough dry hop so it can clean up afterwards. Just thinking out loud here.
I suppose one could take a SG reading before dry hopping, and after to see if the gravity changes. Also, I suppose introducing most of the dry hops during active fermentation would help.
Mordhaus
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I'm also starting to question the predictability of 1318. I've previously used it several times and it's finished out quickly and tasted consistent every time. The last two times I've used it, it's been very slow. I attributed the first time to potentially under pitching and using 8th gen yeast. This combined with crashing before the yeast had time to clean up, lent me to believe these caused a horrible band aid taste in the beer. Now I'm not so sure.
The most recent attempt was a 5.5% beer with a fresh batch of 1318. I made an 1800ml starter, more than enough, and after two weeks, it's still actively fermenting. The first week was at 67 degrees, dry hopped on day 8 and bumped it to 73 after that. I haven't tasted it or measured gravity yet because I didn't want to introduce any unnecessary oxygen, but I guess I'm going to have to. I may have to mark 1318 as one of those strains that I'm going to have to baby sit. It's really throwing off my preferred dry hopping schedule for sure.
The most recent attempt was a 5.5% beer with a fresh batch of 1318. I made an 1800ml starter, more than enough, and after two weeks, it's still actively fermenting. The first week was at 67 degrees, dry hopped on day 8 and bumped it to 73 after that. I haven't tasted it or measured gravity yet because I didn't want to introduce any unnecessary oxygen, but I guess I'm going to have to. I may have to mark 1318 as one of those strains that I'm going to have to baby sit. It's really throwing off my preferred dry hopping schedule for sure.
