New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[surgical_ass]

Slightly off topic but has anyone had any attenuation issues with 1318? Did an ipa largely influenced from this thread that is 6 days old and is 4 pts away from projected fg but yeast has dropped completely from top after massive starter (2L 1.060 og) and all necessary steps. Fermentation was 68-70 degrees. My bill was 80% golden promise 10% flaked wheat and 10% vienna. Never used this yeast so this is new territory. Any concern? I know it's only 4 pts and it's been only 6 days but I've been in a similar situation before and the gravity never moved. Great thread thanks guys!

 

[KirkMN]

I've got this fermenting away and it is looking good. I was thinking of brewing another batch to put on the yeast once this is done. Maybe change up the hops a bit to a Citra/Nelson/Mosaic combo.

This also got me thinking of making an 8% Double IPA similar to TG's King Sue. What do you think I'd need to change besides the malt bill? Ever make something similar in all your batches?

 

[Braufessor]

I've got this fermenting away and it is looking good. I was thinking of brewing another batch to put on the yeast once this is done. Maybe change up the hops a bit to a Citra/Nelson/Mosaic combo.

This also got me thinking of making an 8% Double IPA similar to TG's King Sue. What do you think I'd need to change besides the malt bill? Ever make something similar in all your batches?

I have not...... Really not a huge fan of 7-8%+ beers to be honest. I like them from time to time, but don't want 5 gallons of it on hand usually. I guess I would simply scale it up as it is to start with - adjusting grain bill to come in at 1.075 or so. I would add more bittering hops to balance out the increased malt. King is all Citra other than the bittering hop. They don't use conan... Something more along the lines of 007 probably. However, if I was brewing something like it, I would still use conan anyway.

Did you happen to come down and get any King Sue today at the release? Place was a ****-show when I stopped in around 1:00 or so...... Went and hung out at Pulpit Rock for a while and went back up around 3:00 to pick some up - no line at that point.

 

[KirkMN]

I have not...... Really not a huge fan of 7-8%+ beers to be honest. I like them from time to time, but don't want 5 gallons of it on hand usually. I guess I would simply scale it up as it is to start with - adjusting grain bill to come in at 1.075 or so. I would add more bittering hops to balance out the increased malt. King is all Citra other than the bittering hop. They don't use conan... Something more along the lines of 007 probably. However, if I was brewing something like it, I would still use conan anyway.

Did you happen to come down and get any King Sue today at the release? Place was a ****-show when I stopped in around 1:00 or so...... Went and hung out at Pulpit Rock for a while and went back up around 3:00 to pick some up - no line at that point.

I might give it shot and let you know. I rarely drink big beers like that, but I really enjoyed King Sue and would like to try something like it.

I didn't know about the release til late today. Have any idea how much they have or when it will be sold out? The Mosaic dry hopped King Sue was really good, and if I could make something similar that would be great.

When I get done with this recipe I'll send you a few bottles or we can get together to try. Cheers

 

[Zwienka]

Nice recipe. I've been playing around with a NE IPA. Hey I have a question. My malt bill I've used for the last two batches has been 7.5 lbs Pale, 5 lbs White Wheat, 2 lbs flaked oats, and 8 oz dextrine. I mashed at 155 for an hour and hit OG of 1.055. The next batch I used a protein rest at 122 for 20 minutes and then finished at 155 for 40 minutes. The OG went up to 1.062. Anything else I could do to get better efficiency while using 50% of the grist bill being wheat and oats? Thanks.

 

[brewski09]

Nice recipe. I've been playing around with a NE IPA. Hey I have a question. My malt bill I've used for the last two batches has been 7.5 lbs Pale, 5 lbs White Wheat, 2 lbs flaked oats, and 8 oz dextrine. I mashed at 155 for an hour and hit OG of 1.055. The next batch I used a protein rest at 122 for 20 minutes and then finished at 155 for 40 minutes. The OG went up to 1.062. Anything else I could do to get better efficiency while using 50% of the grist bill being wheat and oats? Thanks.

Rice hulls?

 

[kingwood-kid]

Nice recipe. I've been playing around with a NE IPA. Hey I have a question. My malt bill I've used for the last two batches has been 7.5 lbs Pale, 5 lbs White Wheat, 2 lbs flaked oats, and 8 oz dextrine. I mashed at 155 for an hour and hit OG of 1.055. The next batch I used a protein rest at 122 for 20 minutes and then finished at 155 for 40 minutes. The OG went up to 1.062. Anything else I could do to get better efficiency while using 50% of the grist bill being wheat and oats? Thanks.

Malted wheat (and rye) is much smaller than barley, so you need to mill it much finer. Don't worry about shredding the husk, as it doesn't have one. Instead of adding flour, you can just mill the wheat until it's pretty close to flour if you want haziness. A lot of homebrew shops won't adjust their mills for you, but you can ask them nicely to mill the wheat twice. As mentioned, rice hulls are helpful when you have a lot of huskless grains. If you're getting low efficiency, you can sparge more to help rinse those last sugars out of the grain, as long as you don't mind the extra boiling time.

 

[Braufessor]

Nice recipe. I've been playing around with a NE IPA. Hey I have a question. My malt bill I've used for the last two batches has been 7.5 lbs Pale, 5 lbs White Wheat, 2 lbs flaked oats, and 8 oz dextrine. I mashed at 155 for an hour and hit OG of 1.055. The next batch I used a protein rest at 122 for 20 minutes and then finished at 155 for 40 minutes. The OG went up to 1.062. Anything else I could do to get better efficiency while using 50% of the grist bill being wheat and oats? Thanks.

The #1 way to increase efficiency is to mill your grain finer.

#2 and #3 in my book are pH and a longer (75-90 minute)/thinner mash.

** Also, consider your temperature accuracy...... are you positive your temp. probe is correct? If it is off, you could potentially be mashing at a point that is damaging your efficiency.

Technically, in brewing a NE IPA, you don't want to do a protein rest... that is part of what makes it such a hazy beer. Beyond that, almost no grain you use regularly in brewing needs a protein rest.

All that being said, I think mash efficiency is a non issue in home brewing. We, as home brewers are basically talking about $1-$2 worth of grain. The #1 concern is getting the result you want as far as flavor and quality beer. Don't sacrifice that in an attempt to get a few efficiency points -adding a pound of grain is the easiest thing to do. If you gain some efficiency through a protein rest, but lose body and haziness while trying to brew a NE IPA.... it was not worth it.

 

[madscientistbrewNq]

Yeah I used 1318 on a 9 % porter... it came in about 4 to 5 point greater than I wanted so ended around 8.4 %....

I fermented at 64 but started to bump at 72 hrs.... I'm guessing like the conan I probably should have started around 48 hrs.


UOTE=surgical_ass;7416236]Slightly off topic but has anyone had any attenuation issues with 1318? Did an ipa largely influenced from this thread that is 6 days old and is 4 pts away from projected fg but yeast has dropped completely from top after massive starter (2L 1.060 og) and all necessary steps. Fermentation was 68-70 degrees. My bill was 80% golden promise 10% flaked wheat and 10% vienna. Never used this yeast so this is new territory. Any concern? I know it's only 4 pts and it's been only 6 days but I've been in a similar situation before and the gravity never moved. Great thread thanks guys![/QUOTE]

 

[Zwienka]

Sorry I forgot to add that I did use rice hulls.

 

[Zwienka]

I will definitely ask my homebrew store to mill it finer. And I did use rice hulls. Thanks.

 

[Zwienka]

The #1 way to increase efficiency is to mill your grain finer.

#2 and #3 in my book are pH and a longer (75-90 minute)/thinner mash.

** Also, consider your temperature accuracy...... are you positive your temp. probe is correct? If it is off, you could potentially be mashing at a point that is damaging your efficiency.

Technically, in brewing a NE IPA, you don't want to do a protein rest... that is part of what makes it such a hazy beer. Beyond that, almost no grain you use regularly in brewing needs a protein rest.

All that being said, I think mash efficiency is a non issue in home brewing. We, as home brewers are basically talking about $1-$2 worth of grain. The #1 concern is getting the result you want as far as flavor and quality beer. Don't sacrifice that in an attempt to get a few efficiency points -adding a pound of grain is the easiest thing to do. If you gain some efficiency through a protein rest, but lose body and haziness while trying to brew a NE IPA.... it was not worth it.

Thanks! I will try crushing the grain finer. I do check mash pH and experiment with different mash temps. And my temps should be correct. I brew on a Brew Magic by Sabco and I rarely have efficiency problems unless I brew this beer, which I still got 70% efficiency, but I usually get 78-80%. Maybe I should start milling my own grain? But like you said, don't make it any harder for yourself as a homebrewer. As long as I get the result I want I should be happy. Anyways thanks!

 

[specharka]

Just tapped my first attempt at this recipe last night. It seems like the marriage of aroma and flavor is continuously evolving -- when I first kegged the beer it smelled strongly of Belgian phenolics; now the hop aroma dominates. The Ella + Columbus combination is interesting...I'm noticing a lot of citrus and stone fruit coming through, with notes of pineapple and grapefruit shining through in particular. Not much in the way of piney or resinous aroma. The mouthfeel is spectacular, and cleverly belies the dry finish (~78% AA). As young as this brew is, she is quite the looker.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1456069325.575313.jpg

All in all, a great recipe and one I will be returning to for future experimentation. Nice work, Braufessor!

 

[Braufessor]

when I first kegged the beer it smelled strongly of Belgian phenolics

Did you use Conan? And, at what temperature..... I have heard people talk about "belgian" flavors from it if temps start to get high (70+). Just wondering if your temps got a bit high maybe and that could be responsible for Belgian flavors???

The Ella + Columbus combination is interesting...I'm noticing a lot of citrus and stone fruit coming through, with notes of pineapple and grapefruit shining through in particular.

I just dry hopped an experimental version....... 4 x 3 ounce additions like usual. each addition has 1/2 ounce of Citra and 1/2 ounce of Galaxy, and then 2 ounces of Azacca...... have not used it before and wanted to see what it was like.

The mouthfeel is spectacular, and cleverly belies the dry finish (~78% AA). As young as this brew is, she is quite the looker.

I think this is the best part of the recipe..... and the part I basically never change anymore. I still play with hops, water..... maybe even yeast..... but the grain bill/malt profile/color is all really close to where I like it.

Be sure to update with any other thoughts, ideas or new attempts

 

[drewmarkwith]

Slightly off topic but has anyone had any attenuation issues with 1318? Did an ipa largely influenced from this thread that is 6 days old and is 4 pts away from projected fg but yeast has dropped completely from top after massive starter (2L 1.060 og) and all necessary steps. Fermentation was 68-70 degrees. My bill was 80% golden promise 10% flaked wheat and 10% vienna. Never used this yeast so this is new territory. Any concern? I know it's only 4 pts and it's been only 6 days but I've been in a similar situation before and the gravity never moved. Great thread thanks guys!

I have had issues with it stalling but the results have still been amazing. I did a 4.1 % session that I mashed at 158 and it finished at 1.018 and worked very well. My recent IPA stalled on day 5 and the yeast dropped out when the temp here in mass got to -15 degrees and the house temp got down to 62. I swirled the better bottle and put two space heaters up to it- temp came up to 72 and the Krausen reformed and fermented down to 1.016, two short of my desired FG. It works well with my grain bill of 2 row, flaked oats and light Munich- doesn't taste sweet at
all.

 

[specharka]

Did you use Conan? And, at what temperature..... I have heard people talk about "belgian" flavors from it if temps start to get high (70+). Just wondering if your temps got a bit high maybe and that could be responsible for Belgian flavors???









I just dry hopped an experimental version....... 4 x 3 ounce additions like usual. each addition has 1/2 ounce of Citra and 1/2 ounce of Galaxy, and then 2 ounces of Azacca...... have not used it before and wanted to see what it was like.









I think this is the best part of the recipe..... and the part I basically never change anymore. I still play with hops, water..... maybe even yeast..... but the grain bill/malt profile/color is all really close to where I like it.



Be sure to update with any other thoughts, ideas or new attempts

Yes, the yeast was Conan (harvested from cans of Heady Topper). I fermented it around 64F and brought it up to 68F after 3 days. It's strange, because there were no peachy or Belgian esters initially, but after I cold crashed the fermenter smelled like a giant apricot Belgian golden ale. Although it's not completely carbed yet, I can't detect any of those aromas in the finished beer.

I added hops with 3 oz at flameout, 3 oz hop stand @ 160, 3 oz DH @ 5 days and 3 oz keg hop @ 2 days, split evenly. I think the next time I attempt this I'm going to let the wort free fall and periodically add hops instead of 2 huge charges. Ella definitely plays well with this yeast and grainbill. I'm going to try a Citra + Galaxy combination after this to see if I can replicate a Hill Farmstead brew.

 

[dunbruha]

I tried my first batch of this today. I have only one thing to say:

 

[dunbruha]

Well, maybe 2 things: this stuff is dangerous! I keep sipping and sipping and sipping... maybe I'll go now and get another glass...

Thanks for posting the recipe!

 

[hezagenius]

Brewing this beer tomorrow. Still debating on the hops. Thinking maybe an even 3-way split of Citra, Mosaic and Galaxy.

 

[Braufessor]

Brewing this beer tomorrow. Still debating on the hops. Thinking maybe an even 3-way split of Citra, Mosaic and Galaxy.

I have done this several times. I think when I go even split with all 3 hops at all 3 additions it gives it a very "grapefruit" profile. I am kind of a citra-whore..... so, a lot of times I go 1.5 ounce citra, 1 ounce Mosaic and .5 ounce Galaxy.

I think Galaxy can be the strongest of the 3 hops, so I often go with smaller additions of that in relation to the other two. But, these 3 hops have easily become my favorite combo...... probably why they make up almost 20lbs of the hop supply in my freezer

 

[hezagenius]

Getting all my ducks in a row before I start. Question about mash pH: The mash pH should be measured with the grain in the water, right? How long after mashing in should you take the measurement?

I used the Bru'n Water spreadsheet and came up with 1.07gm/gal of CaCl to hit my mash pH of 5.4. I want to make sure I don't add the CaCl and then mash in and go way under on my pH. Should you mash in first and then add the minerals until you hit your target pH?

 

[Braufessor]

Getting all my ducks in a row before I start. Question about mash pH: The mash pH should be measured with the grain in the water, right? How long after mashing in should you take the measurement?

I used the Bru'n Water spreadsheet and came up with 1.07gm/gal of CaCl to hit my mash pH of 5.4. I want to make sure I don't add the CaCl and then mash in and go way under on my pH. Should you mash in first and then add the minerals until you hit your target pH?

What I do for pH readings is I add all my salts/lactic acid to water and bring up to strike temp. Mash in and stir grain in thoroughly. After about 15 20 minutes I stir again and take sample out using a big spoon..... I try to get all liquid, or as much liquid as I can. There is some grain in there, but not a lot. Cool to room temperature, and take reading.

pH/Water adjustment is one of those things that often takes a few times to really dial in. To be honest, I have brewed this beer so many times that I really don't even need to take readings anymore because they are always the same. I do still take them from time to time, just to confirm I am where I want to be..... but, they are always the same. I find that my B'run water projection for this beer is always a bit higher than reality..... So, I plan for about 5.45 - because I know it always comes in about .05 under the projection for this beer.

You are right though - it is easy to put some more of something in, than it is to take it out. As long as you are in the ballpark, your beer is going to be good. Then, the next batch adjust according to your previous results. Keep good notes, consistent practices and you will see patterns emerge.

 

[mbbransc]

What I do for pH readings is I add all my salts/lactic acid to water and bring up to strike temp. Mash in and stir grain in thoroughly. After about 15 20 minutes I stir again and take sample out using a big spoon..... I try to get all liquid, or as much liquid as I can. There is some grain in there, but not a lot. Cool to room temperature, and take reading.

pH/Water adjustment is one of those things that often takes a few times to really dial in. To be honest, I have brewed this beer so many times that I really don't even need to take readings anymore because they are always the same. I do still take them from time to time, just to confirm I am where I want to be..... but, they are always the same. I find that my B'run water projection for this beer is always a bit higher than reality..... So, I plan for about 5.45 - because I know it always comes in about .05 under the projection for this beer.

You are right though - it is easy to put some more of something in, than it is to take it out. As long as you are in the ballpark, your beer is going to be good. Then, the next batch adjust according to your previous results. Keep good notes, consistent practices and you will see patterns emerge.

I think that part is really the key. Making wild sweeping changes when you're 1/3rd the way through your mashing isn't practical. Take measurements, make notes. Adjust your next brew, take measurements, make notes. Dialing it in is a process. I likewise, rarely take measurements for my "regular" grists but will when I brew something that is less normal for my brewhouse.

 

[TxBigHops]

SPECIFICATIONS:
OG 1.055
FG 1.011
IBU's...... 30-35 from bittering, not sure of utilization from all the late addition hops. Perception is much more than 35 IBU's though.
SRM 4
ABV 5.3% - This is definitely more of a "session" IPA - but, the heavy late hops and full body really make it drink like a regular IPA without the 6-8%+ abv of a lot of the popular IPA's and DIPA's

**I brew 6.5 gallons of finished beer (post boil)..... this allows me to leave some hop/trub behind in boil kettle and fermenter and get 5 gallons eventually into serving keg. If you finish with 5 gallons post boil, you might want to adjust hops down a bit.
6.5 gallons post boil
5.75 gallons into fermenter
5 gallons into keg

GRAIN BILL:
% and the actual amt. I use for 6.5 gallons @ 84% mash efficiency (your efficiency may vary)
44% Rahr 2 Row ( 5 lbs)
44% Golden Promise (or similar.... Pearl, Maris Otter) (5 lbs)
4% Flaked Oats (1/2 lb)
4% Flaked Barley 1/2 lb)
2% Wheat (1/4 lb)
2% Honey Malt (1/4 lb)

60 minute mash @152-154)

Lots of talk on this thread about hops and yeast (as it should be) but I have some malt bill questions that I haven't seen discussed. (May have missed them?) I'm brewing a very similar recipe this weekend. (I hope) I'm wondering what your strategy is for using two base grains in a 50/50 combo? I was planning to use all MO. My beer will be even more of a session brew than yours as I'm shooting for OG 1.050 and FG 1.014 with a lesser attenuating yeast. (Dennys 50) I wanted the MO and the higher FG to ensure enough malty backbone to cover up the low ABV.

My other question regards color. In Nate from Treehouse's Hoppy Thing recipe he says to shoot for SRM 7 - glowing orange. I see you are much lighter at 4. My current recipe is 6.25, but just wondering if you see an advantage to keeping it lighter? I could easily make an adjustment to get down to about 5.

Thanks for all your contributions to this topic. I'm planning to be in Decorah in June, so maybe we could meet up and I could buy you a beer at TG. Maybe even swap some homebrew?

 

[Braufessor]

I'm brewing a very similar recipe this weekend. (I hope) I'm wondering what your strategy is for using two base grains in a 50/50 combo? I was planning to use all MO.

My strategy is simply a combination of wanting a more complex malt..... but, it costs a somewhat significant bit more..... So, I just go with the 50/50 blend. For sure all maris otter, or all golden promise, or pearl would be great too. I am actually planning on brewing a few with 100% GP or 100% pearl.

My beer will be even more of a session brew than yours as I'm shooting for OG 1.050 and FG 1.014 with a lesser attenuating yeast. (Dennys 50) I wanted the MO and the higher FG to ensure enough malty backbone to cover up the low ABV.

Let me know what you think about using Denny's.... I have used it a couple times, but not so much in this beer. I think it would be a yeast that would potentially work very well in a beer like this.

My other question regards color. In Nate from Treehouse's Hoppy Thing recipe he says to shoot for SRM 7 - glowing orange. I see you are much lighter at 4. My current recipe is 6.25, but just wondering if you see an advantage to keeping it lighter? I could easily make an adjustment to get down to about 5.

No.... not a huge difference I don't think. There night be a touch more sweetness from some of the caramel malt for color.... but not like you are talking much. I have simply transitioned to primarily brewing with low amounts of caramel malts. But, I have brewed a few that are more in that 6-8 range.... glowing orange. It is a cool looking beer and tastes great. A touch more caramel might be beneficial as you move toward lower OG's.

I'm planning to be in Decorah in June, so maybe we could meet up and I could buy you a beer at TG. Maybe even swap some homebrew?

For sure. If I am around, I would definitely try to meet for a beer - just let me know.

 

[phishie]

Thank you so much to Braufessor and other contributors in this thread. It's immensely interesting and informative.

Few questions for you Braufessor.

I really like your strategy with brewing the blonde as a stepping stone for your Conan prior to brewing the real deal NE IPA, so I think I will copy you there.

For the Blonde, I'll be building my water from distilled (I always do, yes cost /duck) and am curious on ideal table salt content. Is it a bad idea to have 0 Na? I can hit the CA/SO/Cl numbers easily with just Gypsum and Calc Chloride, but it's hard to do that and have some Na. I target 5ppm MG and 25ppm Na in most of my beers but I'm uncertain if it's necessary for the Blonde.

Did you ever try your NE IPA with 180ppm SO / 100ppm Cl target? Curious how it compares.

Lastly, do you think the Conan would be sufficiently stepped up after brewing the blonde once to handle a 1.090 OG version of your NE IPA?

 

[Braufessor]

Thank you so much to Braufessor and other contributors in this thread. It's immensely interesting and informative.

Few questions for you Braufessor.

I really like your strategy with brewing the blonde as a stepping stone for your Conan prior to brewing the real deal NE IPA, so I think I will copy you there.

For the Blonde, I'll be building my water from distilled (I always do, yes cost /duck) and am curious on ideal table salt content. Is it a bad idea to have 0 Na? I can hit the CA/SO/Cl numbers easily with just Gypsum and Calc Chloride, but it's hard to do that and have some Na. I target 5ppm MG and 25ppm Na in most of my beers but I'm uncertain if it's necessary for the Blonde.

Did you ever try your NE IPA with 180ppm SO / 100ppm Cl target? Curious how it compares.

Lastly, do you think the Conan would be sufficiently stepped up after brewing the blonde once to handle a 1.090 OG version of your NE IPA?

I think a bit of sodium kind of rounds out/smooths out a beer. To be honest though..... I don't know that small amounts are really super noticeable. #1 priority is making sure your additions get your pH right. From there, it is "big picture" stuff. I try to include a bit of Mg for yeast health and the sodium for a "fuller" feel.......who knows for sure though.

I have not tried this with higher sulfate yet. I did just transfer a beer from primary to dry hopping keg that had 150 chloride and 100 sulfate..... it was really good. Can't wait to get it on tap for this weekend. I am currently out of IPA's!

No idea on the 1.090.... I have never brewed an IPA over 1.075 - and I rarely do that. No clue if Conan is up to that or not. I would think though, that if you ran it through a blonde ale, and then had a good, active starter at high krausen and pitched it - it would be as good as it is going to get.

 

[phishie]

No idea on the 1.090.... I have never brewed an IPA over 1.075 - and I rarely do that. No clue if Conan is up to that or not. I would think though, that if you ran it through a blonde ale, and then had a good, active starter at high krausen and pitched it - it would be as good as it is going to get.

Thanks for the quick reply.

You would make a starter from recovered yeast? Is that just because I mentioned 1.090 or do you usually do that?

 

[Braufessor]

Thanks for the quick reply.

You would make a starter from recovered yeast? Is that just because I mentioned 1.090 or do you usually do that?

I always make a starter before every beer. 1 Liter starter 18-24 hours before I brew. I pitch the entire starter while it is actively fermenting.

You don't want to pitch yeast that has completely fermented out a wort without getting it going again.

I would make a starter whether I was doing a 1.050 beer or a 1.090.

 

[phishie]

I always make a starter before every beer. 1 Liter starter 18-24 hours before I brew. I pitch the entire starter while it is actively fermenting.

You don't want to pitch yeast that has completely fermented out a wort without getting it going again.

I would make a starter whether I was doing a 1.050 beer or a 1.090.

Thanks! I would also guess you're doing 1 jar of recovered per starter?

 

[Braufessor]

Thanks! I would also guess you're doing 1 jar of recovered per starter?

Yes. I get about 6 jars of yeast from a blonde. Each jar (1/2 pint) has 1-1.5 inches of solid yeast in the bottom when it settles out. with about 3 inches of beer on top of it. I will decant off that beer when I make the starter.

If I was doing a 1.090 beer, I would likely use 2 jars of yeast, still making a 1-1.2L starter or so.

Here is a great thread on yeast starters and why a 1L, actively fermenting starter is the way to go as oppose to trying to make bigger starters, fermenting them out, cold crashing them, etc. There is a WEALTH of info in this thread and other threads that S. Cervevisiae contributed to on the AHA site:
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=20692.0

 

[MerlinWerks]

I've adopted that starter method as well, but I aerate with O2/stone rather than shaking the beejeezus out of a gallon jug

 

[Braufessor]

I've adopted that starter method as well, but I aerate with O2/stone rather than shaking the beejeezus out of a gallon jug

Yeah - I still do the stir plate.... have not done the "shaken" method either.

 

[phishie]

Yes. I get about 6 jars of yeast from a blonde. Each jar (1/2 pint) has 1-1.5 inches of solid yeast in the bottom when it settles out. with about 3 inches of beer on top of it. I will decant off that beer when I make the starter.

If I was doing a 1.090 beer, I would likely use 2 jars of yeast, still making a 1-1.2L starter or so.

Here is a great thread on yeast starters and why a 1L, actively fermenting starter is the way to go as oppose to trying to make bigger starters, fermenting them out, cold crashing them, etc. There is a WEALTH of info in this thread and other threads that S. Cervevisiae contributed to on the AHA site:
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=20692.0

Thanks Bf, greatly appreciated.

 

[phishie]

Yes. I get about 6 jars of yeast from a blonde. Each jar (1/2 pint) has 1-1.5 inches of solid yeast in the bottom when it settles out. with about 3 inches of beer on top of it. I will decant off that beer when I make the starter.

If I was doing a 1.090 beer, I would likely use 2 jars of yeast, still making a 1-1.2L starter or so.

Here is a great thread on yeast starters and why a 1L, actively fermenting starter is the way to go as oppose to trying to make bigger starters, fermenting them out, cold crashing them, etc. There is a WEALTH of info in this thread and other threads that S. Cervevisiae contributed to on the AHA site:
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=20692.0

That thread is incredible and gave me one my first experiences of realizing I may furthering some bad brewing dogma (stir plate, fermenting out starter, decanting).

Although, the poster advocating pitching at high krausen, S. Cerevisiae (who I later learned is also "Mark", why so much mystery? that guy has tons of useful info and I wish I could search by his username, but he's only on the site as a "guest"), did leave me with a lot of questions after reading the thread in entirety.

If anyone else is in the same boat I was able to answer a lot of those questions I had by reading this thread:

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=24447.0

Particularly this post by "S. Cerevisiae" or "Mark" detailing his shaken starter method:

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=24447.msg311561#msg311561

 

[Braufessor]

That thread is incredible but it did leave me with a lot of open questions about the best way to make a starter. Although the poster advocating pitching at high krausen, S. Cerevisiae (who I later learned is also "Mark", why so much mystery? that guy has tons of useful info and I wish I could search by his username, but he's only on the site as a "guest"), did leave me with a lot of questions after reading the thread in entirety.

If anyone else is in the same boat I was able to answer a lot of those questions I had by reading this thread:

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=24447.0

Particularly this post by "S. Cerevisiae" or "Mark":

https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=24447.msg311561#msg311561

He is not currently active as a posting member there...... Hoping he decides to post and share his knowledge again at some point in the future as I learned more about yeast from his threads than any other source. This is one of his other threads that is exceptional in regard to NOT rinsing yeast.
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=19850.0

 

[phishie]

He is not currently active as a posting member there...... Hoping he decides to post and share his knowledge again at some point in the future as I learned more about yeast from his threads than any other source. This is one of his other threads that is exceptional in regard to NOT rinsing yeast.
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=19850.0

Thanks!

Some burning questions I have now (although only on page 5 of 29 of the thread I linked to)...

1) If you use a 2 micron stone to inject O2 into the starter wort, you can skip the shaking step & using a 4x volume container to starter, right?

I ask because I have a 2L erlenmeyer flask, O2 bottle, and a 2 micron stone, so it would be convenient to make a 1L starter in the 2L flask, inject O2 to saturate and skip the shaking. No need to buy any new container then, too.

2) Does he use any anti foaming agent while boiling the starter wort? If there's no issue using anti foaming agent then I can even skip the step of boiling in a separate pot. If not, boiling a 1L starter in a 2L flask would boil over every time, as I learned the hard way.

3) Does he chill and decant at high krausen or pitch the entire starter? He said he was only making 600 ml starters for 3.5 gallon brews, but that's still almost 5% w/v of the finished batch. He also said he's using pilsen light DME which he thinks is flavor neutral so I'm guessing he does pitch the whole starter at high krausen.

4) What would be his tips/visual cues for recognizing when a starter has just entered the stationary phase? Other than just saing 16-24 hours after pitching yeast.

 

[MerlinWerks]

He is not currently active as a posting member there...... Hoping he decides to post and share his knowledge again at some point in the future as I learned more about yeast from his threads than any other source. This is one of his other threads that is exceptional in regard to NOT rinsing yeast.
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=19850.0

I believe he got overwhelmed with questions and chooses not to post much anymore. But I believe he will be contributing articles at Denny/Drew's site from time to time.

http://www.experimentalbrew.com/blog

 

[Braufessor]

Thanks!

Some burning questions I have now (although only on page 5 of 29 of the thread I linked to)...

1) If you use a 2 micron stone to inject O2 into the starter wort, you can skip the shaking step & using a 4x volume container to starter, right?

I ask because I have a 2L erlenmeyer flask, O2 bottle, and a 2 micron stone, so it would be convenient to make a 1L starter in the 2L flask, inject O2 to saturate and skip the shaking. No need to buy any new container then, too.

2) Does he use any anti foaming agent while boiling the starter wort? If there's no issue using anti foaming agent then I can even skip the step of boiling in a separate pot. If not, boiling a 1L starter in a 2L flask would boil over every time, as I learned the hard way.

3) Does he chill and decant at high krausen or pitch the entire starter? He said he was only making 600 ml starters for 3.5 gallon brews, but that's still almost 5% w/v of the finished batch. He also said he's using pilsen light DME which he thinks is flavor neutral so I'm guessing he does pitch the whole starter at high krausen.

4) What would be his tips/visual cues for recognizing when a starter has just entered the stationary phase? Other than just saing 16-24 hours after pitching yeast.

I have not adapted all of the practices suggested. I still use a stir plate as oppose to shaking. I don't inject O2 into my starters, just into my post boil wort. I think my biggest take away from some of the posts - things I do, and seem to be beneficial:
1.) Storing yeast under beer, not washing/rinsing.
2.) Smaller starter (1L)
3.) Pitching it active in 18 hours or so as opposed to fermenting out, crashing, etc.
4.) Pitch the entire fermenting starter. I pitch 1-1.2 L into my batches. I use pilsen DME or extra light DME. 1.030-1.040 starter gravity.

I boil my starter in a stainless kitchen pot, chill it in an ice bath..... does not take long to chill a 1L starter. I then transfer it to sanitized 2L flask. No anti foaming for me. Onto stir plate. Pitching to beer 12-18-24 hours later.

 

[phishie]

I have not adapted all of the practices suggested. I still use a stir plate as oppose to shaking. I don't inject O2 into my starters, just into my post boil wort. I think my biggest take away from some of the posts - things I do, and seem to be beneficial:
1.) Storing yeast under beer, not washing/rinsing.
2.) Smaller starter (1L)
3.) Pitching it active in 18 hours or so as opposed to fermenting out, crashing, etc.
4.) Pitch the entire fermenting starter. I pitch 1-1.2 L into my batches. I use pilsen DME or extra light DME. 1.030-1.040 starter gravity.

I boil my starter in a stainless kitchen pot, chill it in an ice bath..... does not take long to chill a 1L starter. I then transfer it to sanitized 2L flask. No anti foaming for me. Onto stir plate. Pitching to beer 12-18-24 hours later.

Good take-aways. I think the next time I make a starter I will do a 1L 1.030-1.035 extra light DME starter, oxygenate with pure O2, and pitch the whole thing about 18 hours later. Will be nice to have a much shorter starter process and no need for a stir plate. Speaking of, anyone want to buy a stirplate?