New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[ihavenonickname]

I really like this (as described by @Dgallo) method and have been doing it with kegmenters. 7g fermenter, 7g dry hop keg. I’ve been using the co2 from fermentation to purge the clean DH keg (not filled with Sanitizer). With big hop loads the agitation has to be helpful.

But I have my doubts that it might be hurting my hop aroma. I haven’t done a Side by side, it’s just my last few batches the hops aroma has been down, so I’m wondering. My thinking is it’s a lot of head space for the aroma to be filling and purging. Especially when I also am purging the serving keg in line. That’s a lot of air to purge! There’s a good thread on this topic and one of the calculators suggest I might be leaving oxygen in the kegs. I see no signs of oxidation (color change over time, or really any change over the 8 weeks the keg lasts.) but the aroma is so so.

If you purge the DH Keg and or the serving keg by pushing sanitizer with commmercial co2, that totally changes the calculations.

I guess my question does anyone using this method love their hop aroma? And what’s your method for purging the DH keg and the serving keg?

 

[jordanfrenzy]

The ratio is actually less important than the ppms are. A ratio just gives you a relationship between the two. Put it this way, if your making dinner and it calls for 2:1 ratio of pepper to salt but you only put 2 flakes of pepper and 1 grain of salt into the recipe. Though you followed the ratio it called for, the meal will be unnoticeable and terribly under seasoned. Same goes for your water chemistry.

I’m roughly at;
Ca - 100ppm
Mg - 9ppm
Cl - 225ppm
Na - 75 ppm
So4 - 130

Have you experimented with keeping your calcium lower (around 50ppm)? I saw that Tuba Solo recipe that came out a few months ago and started using a mix of NaCl, KCl, and small amounts of CaCl. I really like the results I'm getting now. The Tuba Solo brewer made a comment about a lot of NEIPAs drinking really chalky from all of the calcium, which is something I've definitely experienced drinking IPA around Denver.

My profile comes out somewhere around

Ca - 50 ppm
Mg - 5ish ppm
Cl - 200 ppm
Na - 50ish ppm
So4 - 55 ppm

 

[Dgallo]

Have you experimented with keeping your calcium lower (around 50ppm)? I saw that Tuba Solo recipe that came out a few months ago and started using a mix of NaCl, KCl, and small amounts of CaCl. I really like the results I'm getting now. The Tuba Solo brewer made a comment about a lot of NEIPAs drinking really chalky from all of the calcium, which is something I've definitely experienced drinking IPA around Denver.

My profile comes out somewhere around

Ca - 50 ppm
Mg - 5ish ppm
Cl - 200 ppm
Na - 50ish ppm
So4 - 55 ppm

All the research I have seen in past few years(2 or 3 years) is that the perception/flavor threshold for the average person is above 150, ranging + or - 10 ppms. I know everyone has a preference though.

I am not saying your water profile is bad or wrong but I am extremely pleased with my water profile and I don’t detect any chalkiness. Ive entered my NEIPAs in quite a few compitions, including nationals, and have never had a mention of chalkiness or astringency.

Also, when talking about my base water, I’m at about 50 ppm of calcium without making any additions

 

[Clyde McCoy]

Single-hop Nelson beers should be banned, they're too good

Ca: 147 Mg: 3 Na: 12 SO4: 149 Cl: 150

Rahr 2-Row (94.9%): 14 lbs
Weyermann Carafoam (5.1%): 0.75 lbs

CO2 hop extract: 7 ml, boil 15’
Nelson: 4 oz, flameout
Nelson: 10 oz, dry hop

Yeast: Hill Farmstead Harlan

 

[Sleepy_D]

I’m going to be making my first NEIPA in a couple weeks and I’ve been going through this thread trying to learn but there is soooo much info so I’m hoping to get some answers from you fine people. Looks like the preferred grain bill these days is all pale 2-row (no golden promise) all malted adjuncts (no flaked) and no honey malt which seemed like a staple at one point. Is it pretty standard now to do something like:

70% 2-row,
20% malted oats,
10% malted wheat

Before I would have thought an even split between malted and flaked adjuncts, some honey and some GP, maybe something like:

48% 2-row
25% Golden Promise
7.5% flaked oats
7.5% malted oats
5% malted white wheat
5% flaked wheat
2% honey malt

I was gathering that the malted adjuncts are less susceptible to oxidation which I’m for but I was hoping to get some advice on the most effective grain bill, in your experience

 

[DrGMG]

Single-hop Nelson beers should be banned, they're too good

View attachment 814917

Ca: 147 Mg: 3 Na: 12 SO4: 149 Cl: 150

Rahr 2-Row (94.9%): 14 lbs
Weyermann Carafoam (5.1%): 0.75 lbs

CO2 hop extract: 7 ml, boil 15’
Nelson: 4 oz, flameout
Nelson: 10 oz, dry hop

Yeast: Hill Farmstead Harlan

How did you get the yeast?

 

[secretlevel]

I was watching a fellow YouTuber make a hazy and he made an interesting claim. He believes that not using a spunding valve in his past NEIPA has resulted the CO2 to blow off most of the aroma from the beer. Is there any science out there on the effects of excessive purging or even using Spunding valves vs reg airlock in NEIPA?
Aroma is one of those things that's so tricky to measure on paper, but thought I'd check in anyway.

 

[ihavenonickname]

I was watching a fellow YouTuber make a hazy and he made an interesting claim. He believes that not using a spunding valve in his past NEIPA has resulted the CO2 to blow off most of the aroma from the beer. Is there any science out there on the effects of excessive purging or even using Spunding valves vs reg airlock in NEIPA?
Aroma is one of those things that's so tricky to measure on paper, but thought I'd check in anyway.

I can’t say with any evidence or even anectode that I’m convinced about…. But theoretically spunding at the end of fermentation (avoid suppressing ester production), dry hopping under pressure, smaller head space… should only help aroma. Purging out head space can hurt if you are losing volatile aromatics, but can help if you are reducing DO.

I’m interestedin how this relates to purging kegs with fermentation co2… in theory this helps retain some of the blow off (like spunding does)

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I’m going to be making my first NEIPA in a couple weeks and I’ve been going through this thread trying to learn but there is soooo much info so I’m hoping to get some answers from you fine people. Looks like the preferred grain bill these days is all pale 2-row (no golden promise) all malted adjuncts (no flaked) and no honey malt which seemed like a staple at one point. Is it pretty standard now to do something like:

70% 2-row,
20% malted oats,
10% malted wheat

Before I would have thought an even split between malted and flaked adjuncts, some honey and some GP, maybe something like:

48% 2-row
25% Golden Promise
7.5% flaked oats
7.5% malted oats
5% malted white wheat
5% flaked wheat
2% honey malt

I was gathering that the malted adjuncts are less susceptible to oxidation which I’m for but I was hoping to get some advice on the most effective grain bill, in your experience

I still like my honey malt but at no more then 2% some ppl leave it out all together, that will be a personal preference after you brew them both ways and decide what you prefer. Yes I stay away from flaked oats, just 2row, malted oats, white wheat malt, honey malt, and a bit of carapils.

Personally I prefer a bittering addition, usually just a touch of simcoe at start of boil. Then a 5 min addition of whatever hops I'm using followed by whirlpool addition at 170f

Dryhop after 2 weeks, first soft crash to 48f for 36 hours, drop yeast if possible. Then let come back up to 55f and add your hops. 2 days or so later cold crash for a couple days. Do all this with the least amount of oxygen exposure possible. Then close transfer to your keg.

Oh, and get your water profile to this style, makes a huge difference.

Goodluck and have fun.

 

[Sleepy_D]

I still like my honey malt but at no more then 2% some ppl leave it out all together, that will be a personal preference after you brew them both ways and decide what you prefer. Yes I stay away from flaked oats, just 2row, malted oats, white wheat malt, honey malt, and a bit of carapils.

Personally I prefer a bittering addition, usually just a touch of simcoe at start of boil. Then a 5 min addition of whatever hops I'm using followed by whirlpool addition at 170f

Dryhop after 2 weeks, first soft crash to 48f for 36 hours, drop yeast if possible. Then let come back up to 55f and add your hops. 2 days or so later cold crash for a couple days. Do all this with the least amount of oxygen exposure possible. Then close transfer to your keg.

Oh, and get your water profile to this style, makes a huge difference.

Goodluck and have fun.

Thanks! I think I’ll add a dash of honey malt, it sounds too good to pass on! Maybe I’ll do:

68% root shoot genie pale malt
20% malted oats
10% white wheat
2% honey malt

 

[jordanfrenzy]

All the research I have seen in past few years(2 or 3 years) is that the perception/flavor threshold for the average person is above 150, ranging + or - 10 ppms. I know everyone has a preference though.

I am not saying your water profile is bad or wrong but I am extremely pleased with my water profile and I don’t detect any chalkiness. Ive entered my NEIPAs in quite a few compitions, including nationals, and have never had a mention of chalkiness or astringency.

Also, when talking about my base water, I’m at about 50 ppm of calcium without making any additions

That's interesting. I suppose there's about a million variables in NEIPA that I could be perceiving as chalky without Calcium being the culprit. I really hate high FG/low carb/low bitterness NEIPAs, I wonder if I'm detecting that flabbiness and describing it as chalky.

 

[Dgallo]

That's interesting. I suppose there's about a million variables in NEIPA that I could be perceiving as chalky without Calcium being the culprit. I really hate high FG/low carb/low bitterness NEIPAs, I wonder if I'm detecting that flabbiness and describing

That idk. Most of what I have ever seen show that all ales need a minimum of about 50 ppm of calcium in general so you should be good regardless. What’s your mash ph? Are you adjusting your sparge waters ph? What’s your dryhoping process.

When I think about chalkiness in flavor I get that slight astringent taste that Tylenol, mixed with an in flavored antacid chewable

 

[James Quall]

That idk. Most of what I have ever seen show that all ales need a minimum of about 50 ppm of calcium in general so you should be good regardless. What’s your mash ph? Are you adjusting your sparge waters ph? What’s your dryhoping process.

When I think about chalkiness in flavor I get that slight astringent taste that Tylenol, mixed with an in flavored antacid chewable

Speaking of sparge water ph, what is an acceptable ph? What is the ideal ph for sparge water?

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I was watching a fellow YouTuber make a hazy and he made an interesting claim.

I watch too many YouTubers, and you and Hops & Gnarly are the only channels I trust for content on NEIPAs. I appreciate content creators that pick a style to brew every week to make a video, I just don't fully trust them as authorities on any one style.

 

[Ulisses4677]

I was watching a fellow YouTuber make a hazy and he made an interesting claim. He believes that not using a spunding valve in his past NEIPA has resulted the CO2 to blow off most of the aroma from the beer. Is there any science out there on the effects of excessive purging or even using Spunding valves vs reg airlock in NEIPA?
Aroma is one of those things that's so tricky to measure on paper, but thought I'd check in anyw

I was watching a fellow YouTuber make a hazy and he made an interesting claim. He believes that not using a spunding valve in his past NEIPA has resulted the CO2 to blow off most of the aroma from the beer. Is there any science out there on the effects of excessive purging or even using Spunding valves vs reg airlock in NEIPA?
Aroma is one of those things that's so tricky to measure on paper, but thought I'd check in anyway.

I don’t totally with the apartment brewer in regards to his neipa brewing process. He blames the yeast for thinning the body but I believe it was his dry hopping process during active fermentation which can affect haze stability. I think you have a better channel respectfully speaking.

 

[Ulisses4677]

I don’t totally with the apartment brewer in regards to his neipa brewing process. He blames the yeast for thinning the body but I believe it was his dry hopping process during active fermentation which can affect haze stability. I think you have a better channel respectfully speaking.

Agree

 

[secretlevel]

I don’t totally with the apartment brewer in regards to his neipa brewing process. He blames the yeast for thinning the body but I believe it was his dry hopping process during active fermentation which can affect haze stability. I think you have a better channel respectfully speaking.

100% on haze stability, Laura from Omega mentioned that DH'ing in the first half of fermentation will actually reduce your haze. There's a lot of bold statements in some of these videos, but the format is good so its fun to watch and learn so my videos don't suck haha.

Nonetheless, I keep thinking about blowing off aroma because I do purge quite a bit after transferring the beer into serving keg (just in case). I may purge the keg much more before transferring next time though...

 

[James Quall]

100% on haze stability, Laura from Omega mentioned that DH'ing in the first half of fermentation will actually reduce your haze. There's a lot of bold statements in some of these videos, but the format is good so its fun to watch and learn so my videos don't suck haha.

Nonetheless, I keep thinking about blowing off aroma because I do purge quite a bit after transferring the beer into serving keg (just in case). I may purge the keg much more before transferring next time though...

Why don't you try to use the CO2 produced from fermentation to purge the keg? That way there is no need for additional purging after pressure transferring.

 

[Ulisses4677]

100% on haze stability, Laura from Omega mentioned that DH'ing in the first half of fermentation will actually reduce your haze. There's a lot of bold statements in some of these videos, but the format is good so its fun to watch and learn so my videos don't suck haha.

Nonetheless, I keep thinking about blowing off aroma because I do purge quite a bit after transferring the beer into serving keg (just in case). I may purge the keg much more before transferring next time though...

I rack the beer on top of the hops in a korny keg that has already been purged then 3 to 4 days later transfer to a purged serving keg. I do knockout hop charge and I feel like it makes a huge difference.

 

[Ulisses4677]

I also force carbonate I feel like that helps.

 

[secretlevel]

Why don't you try to use the CO2 produced from fermentation to purge the keg? That way there is no need for additional purging after pressure transferring.

I'm pretty limited on the fermentation space in the fridge, but maybe I can pull the fermenters out halfway through as I ramp up the temp and hook them up. Good call.

 

[aaronm13]

100% on haze stability, Laura from Omega mentioned that DH'ing in the first half of fermentation will actually reduce your haze. There's a lot of bold statements in some of these videos, but the format is good so its fun to watch and learn so my videos don't suck haha.

Nonetheless, I keep thinking about blowing off aroma because I do purge quite a bit after transferring the beer into serving keg (just in case). I may purge the keg much more before transferring next time though...

We watched the same video so. I like his channel and seems a cool guy but there was so much wrong in his process in that video. Dry hopping so early in fermentation then a second dry hop left on the hops for a week at 72 degrees. That just goes against everything I've learned from this post over the last few years. His low OG was 100% down to his dry hop process. If he's happy with the results good for him but going by the comments a lot of people are going to copy him.

By the way, love your YouTube channel. I'm really enjoying the videos and the format is very informative.

 

[James Quall]

I'm pretty limited on the fermentation space in the fridge, but maybe I can pull the fermenters out halfway through as I ramp up the temp and hook them up. Good call.

That makes sense. I don't know how keen you are for drilling holes in your fermentation fridge but that may be another solution?

I use a chest freezer (keezer) put my fermzilla with a blowoff tube going out of the keezer connected to the beer port of the keg, wait until I see bubbles in the starsan solution. Then, connect it to the keg with a spunding valve on the gas port set to a couple of psi to seal the lid.

 

[aaronm13]

100% on haze stability, Laura from Omega mentioned that DH'ing in the first half of fermentation will actually reduce your haze. There's a lot of bold statements in some of these videos, but the format is good so its fun to watch and learn so my videos don't suck haha.

Nonetheless, I keep thinking about blowing off aroma because I do purge quite a bit after transferring the beer into serving keg (just in case). I may purge the keg much more before transferring next time though...

We watched the same video so. I like his channel and seems a cool guy but there was so much wrong in his process in that video. Dry hopping so early in fermentation then a second dry hop left on the hops for a week at 72 degrees. That just goes against everything I've learned from this post over the last few years. His low OG was 100% down to his dry hop process. If he's happy with the results good for him but going by the comments a lot of people are going to copy him.

By the way, love your YouTube channel. I'm really enjoying the videos and the format is very infprmaitive.

I'm pretty limited on the fermentation space in the fridge, but maybe I can pull the fermenters out halfway through as I ramp up the temp and hook them up. Good call.

My fermentation fridge only holds one keg so I keep the 2 kegs to be purged outside. I run 3/16 beer line out through the door seal so no drilling needed. Wasn't too comfortable having to drill through it.

 

[jordanfrenzy]

Something interesting and new in the homebrew product market - Oxblox 3D. CellarScience® Oxblox 3D | Dissolved Oxygen Reducer | MoreBeer

Used to treat mash and sparge water to supposedly reduce oxidation. I wonder what the benefits are vs using SMB or campden tablets?

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Used to treat mash and sparge water to supposedly reduce oxidation. I wonder what the benefits are vs using SMB or campden tablets?

I saw that and I thought about asking about it over on the Low Oxygen Brewing forum. I think it is the "trifecta" that I have read about that people use to help reduce hot side oxygen (Brewtan B, SMB, and Ascorbic Acid). Their page says "a specially formulated blend of gallotannins, ascorbic acid, and metabisulphite."

I have not 100% figured out what role I want ascorbic acid and/or metabisulphite to play in my oxygen reduction strategy either in the mash or on the cold side. I have played around a little with both.

 

[jordanfrenzy]

I saw that and I thought about asking about it over on the Low Oxygen Brewing forum. I think it is the "trifecta" that I have read about that people use to help reduce hot side oxygen (Brewtan B, SMB, and Ascorbic Acid). Their page says "a specially formulated blend of gallotannins, ascorbic acid, and metabisulphite."

I have not 100% figured out what role I want ascorbic acid and/or metabisulphite to play in my oxygen reduction strategy either in the mash or on the cold side. I have played around a little with both.

Word. I do the yeast oxygen scavenging method on my mash and sparge water as well as Brewtan-B and campden tablets. I do think it has kept my hazies looking golden and fresh longer. Though I'm not totally LoDo through my entire process so according to the purists I'm doing nothing.

 

[secretlevel]

Word. I do the yeast oxygen scavenging method on my mash and sparge water as well as Brewtan-B and campden tablets. I do think it has kept my hazies looking golden and fresh longer. Though I'm not totally LoDo through my entire process so according to the purists I'm doing nothing.

You should be ashamed! I'm jk, none of us are perfect and I just oxidized a batch even with fully closed transfer cause am dumb

 

[James Quall]

You should be ashamed! I'm jk, none of us are perfect and I just oxidized a batch even with fully closed transfer cause am dumb

I'm curious, how did you do that? Forget to purge the keg you were close transferring to?

 

[secretlevel]

I'm curious, how did you do that? Forget to purge the keg you were close transferring to?

I don't wanna talk about it... but you're in the ballpark

 

[brooksidebrews]

I agree, their quality makes it worth it to me. Around me even the most mediocre breweries are getting 15.99-18.99 a 4 pack.

That said, Thin Man brewing out of Buffalo NY Is a great brewery to grab beer from cost to quality stand point. They aren’t the best but solid and their double IPAs are 15.99 a four pack

Great people at Thin Man also. Nice spot, I have enjoyed most of what I have tried from there..

 

[brooksidebrews]

Speaking of which, the editor of Brew Your Own (BYO) magazine saw my fermonster closed transfer lid build here on HBT and asked if I would be interested in writing an article for their DIY Project column. I agreed and it it in the March/April editionView attachment 814534View attachment 814533

Congratulations!

 

[wdavis2003]

Double NEIPA

5.5g batch
12 lb Pilsner
1.5 lb white wheat malt
2.5 lbs Flaked oats
1 lb golden naked oats

5gal distilled water for mash. 1 gal distilled first batch sparge, 3.88 second batch sparge. Stopped sparging when gravity was 1.018. Salts added to mash only
5g Gypsum
8g CaCl
2g Epsom
3g Ascorbic acid (Mash)

2oz Mosaic at WP (180 degrees)
2 oz Galaxy at WP
4 oz Mosaic Dry Hop (Day 3)
4 oz Galaxy Dry Hop (Day 3)

Pitched on top of Irish Red Ale yeast cake from previous brew (WY1084)

Pressure ferment at 75 degrees until terminal gravity reached (took 24 hours). I let the pressure build to about 30psi then ramped down to 12 psi for the rest of fermentation
Drop to 60 degrees and dry hopped for 3 days

1.064 SG
1.007 FG

Enjoying a week after brew day!

 

[Dgallo]

Double NEIPA

5.5g batch
12 lb Pilsner
1.5 lb white wheat malt
2.5 lbs Flaked oats
1 lb golden naked oats

5gal distilled water for mash. 1 gal distilled first batch sparge, 3.88 second batch sparge. Stopped sparging when gravity was 1.018. Salts added to mash only
5g Gypsum
8g CaCl
2g Epsom
3g Ascorbic acid (Mash)

2oz Mosaic at WP (180 degrees)
2 oz Galaxy at WP
4 oz Mosaic Dry Hop (Day 3)
4 oz Galaxy Dry Hop (Day 3)

Pitched on top of Irish Red Ale yeast cake from previous brew (WY1084)

Pressure ferment at 75 degrees until terminal gravity reached (took 24 hours). I let the pressure build to about 30psi then ramped down to 12 psi for the rest of fermentation
Drop to 60 degrees and dry hopped for 3 days

1.064 SG
1.007 FG

Enjoying a week after brew day!

View attachment 815249

Double NEIPA

5.5g batch
12 lb Pilsner
1.5 lb white wheat malt
2.5 lbs Flaked oats
1 lb golden naked oats

5gal distilled water for mash. 1 gal distilled first batch sparge, 3.88 second batch sparge. Stopped sparging when gravity was 1.018. Salts added to mash only
5g Gypsum
8g CaCl
2g Epsom
3g Ascorbic acid (Mash)

2oz Mosaic at WP (180 degrees)
2 oz Galaxy at WP
4 oz Mosaic Dry Hop (Day 3)
4 oz Galaxy Dry Hop (Day 3)

Pitched on top of Irish Red Ale yeast cake from previous brew (WY1084)

Pressure ferment at 75 degrees until terminal gravity reached (took 24 hours). I let the pressure build to about 30psi then ramped down to 12 psi for the rest of fermentation
Drop to 60 degrees and dry hopped for 3 days

1.064 SG
1.007 FG

Enjoying a week after brew day!

View attachment 815249

How’s the mouthfeel will it finishing so low? And is there a reason you went so fast with your grain to glass?

 

[wdavis2003]

How’s the mouthfeel will it finishing so low? And is there a reason you went so fast with your grain to glass?

I was worried about the FG gravity being to low but man, it tastes like a commercial quality NEIPA (like your favorite craft brewery not Sam Adam's Hazy). The reason I turned it around so quickly is just because the fermentation went so fast. I wanted the hops to pop as much as possible and due to pressure fermenting, the carbonation was nearly there when kegging. Basically, there just wasn't any reason to wait.

 

[agentbud]

Something interesting and new in the homebrew product market - Oxblox 3D. CellarScience® Oxblox 3D | Dissolved Oxygen Reducer | MoreBeer

Used to treat mash and sparge water to supposedly reduce oxidation. I wonder what the benefits are vs using SMB or campden tablets?

Help me understand this. What is the purpose of reducing O2 in the mash if yeast are gonna need it later?

 

[Dgallo]

Help me understand this. What is the purpose of reducing O2 in the mash if yeast are gonna need it later?

O2 in the mash will cause malt compounds to oxidize. It can also cause some darkening of color. I’m not absolutely LODO hotside but I reduce it as much as I can without adding too much time to my brew day. I will say my lagers and believe the robustness of malt character has increased because of it.

The o2 picked up during mashing does leave the wort during boiling so you mainly focusing on minimize the water already dissolved in to use mash water and trying not to splash more than you have to

 

[Ulisses4677]

This beer has been holding out pretty strong. Still has a very fruity aroma, down to my last few pints.

 

[agentbud]

I’m not absolutely LODO hotside but I reduce it as much as I can without adding too much time to my brew day.

Do you use Oxblox 3D or a similar additive? What steps do you take hotside?

 

[Dgallo]

Do you use Oxblox 3D or a similar additive? What steps do you take hotside?

I havent used any additives. Hotside for lagers I’ll boil my mash/sparge water for 5 minutes to removed a fair amount of our. Let it cool to strike temps and then rack into my mashtun with very little slashing. I don’t do any of this for ipas though