New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[CascadesBrewer]

Any feedback is welcome and thanks again for all the insights in this thread.

Good luck! I tend to think that NEIPAs are 80% about process. Award winning recipes are a dime a dozen, but I have had (and made) some pretty bad homebrewed NEIPAs. I have been homebrewing for nearly 30 years. About 3-4 years ago I invested time and effort into steps like water chemistry, fermentation temperature control and avoiding cold side oxidation. I could finally start to make really good American IPAs. After about a dozen batches of NEIPA style beers, I feel like I am slowly getting close to making a decent NEIPA.

At 1.080, make sure you are thinking about yeast pitch rate and health. Do not underpitch! I am not sure what a step mash would bring to an NEIPA. I feel like a single infusion mash can provide plenty of control over fermentability. Then focus on avoiding oxygen. Some people seem to bottle NEIPAs with good success. I have done some experiments, and find that standard bottling practices quickly lead to brown and oxidized beer.

I might suggest starting with a 6% "Hazy Pale Ale" with maybe 8 oz of total hops and seeing how that goes.

 

[jerrylotto]

Also make sure your ingredients are fresh - especially hops. Oxidation effects are not limited to brewday and beyond.

 

[anteater8]

Columbus/Mosaic Double NEIPA update:

7 lb 2 row
7 lb pils
3 lb malted oats
2 lb white wheat
1 lb flaked oats
0.5 lb dextrose

0.5 oz Warrior 60 min (18 IBU)
1 oz Columbus 10 min (14 IBU)
1 oz Columbus whirlpool
2 oz Mosaic whirlpool
2 oz Mosaic Lupomax whirlpool
6 oz Mosaic dry hop #1
2 oz Mosaic dry hop #2
2 oz Mosaic Lupomax dry hop #2

Imperial Juice gen 1

O.G. = 1.078
F.G. = 1.014
ABV = 8.4%

I'm happy with the color on this one, glad I used half pils for the base malt because I wouldn't want it much darker. The aroma is mango, pineapple, weed, strawberry and pine - its nice but not as strong as I would like. Flavor is more citrusy, with a lot of orange, followed by subtle pineapple, mango and faint pine and earthiness on the finish. Alcohol is somewhat noticeable and the finish is just barely more bitter than typical NEIPA. Body is medium, lighter than I would have expected, which I think makes the whole beer feel a bit lighter than it really is.

Overall I'm happy with the beer, it lands kind of in the middle of the road as far as my NEIPAs go. This is the first time I've brewed a double, and one of the only times I've deviated from my 3 main hazy recipes. Next time, I think I'd shoot for closer to 7.5% to 8%, dial back the IBU's and ditch the dextrose. I also went back to soft crashing before dry hop, and I actually wonder if dry hopping slightly cooler (high 50's/low 60's) decreased the aroma, not sure.

I still want to experiment more with oat/wheat heavy grain bills more. I tried Brujos Ad Arma for the first time, best NEIPA I've had in a really long time, and best triple NEIPA I've ever had by far... Apparently they are inspired by Troon and go really heavy on oats & wheat. Incredible stuff.

 

[James Quall]

Columbus/Mosaic Double NEIPA update:

7 lb 2 row
7 lb pils
3 lb malted oats
2 lb white wheat
1 lb flaked oats
0.5 lb dextrose

0.5 oz Warrior 60 min (18 IBU)
1 oz Columbus 10 min (14 IBU)
1 oz Columbus whirlpool
2 oz Mosaic whirlpool
2 oz Mosaic Lupomax whirlpool
6 oz Mosaic dry hop #1
2 oz Mosaic dry hop #2
2 oz Mosaic Lupomax dry hop #2

Imperial Juice gen 1

O.G. = 1.078
F.G. = 1.014
ABV = 8.4%

I'm happy with the color on this one, glad I used half pils for the base malt because I wouldn't want it much darker. The aroma is mango, pineapple, weed, strawberry and pine - its nice but not as strong as I would like. Flavor is more citrusy, with a lot of orange, followed by subtle pineapple, mango and faint pine and earthiness on the finish. Alcohol is somewhat noticeable and the finish is just barely more bitter than typical NEIPA. Body is medium, lighter than I would have expected, which I think makes the whole beer feel a bit lighter than it really is.

Overall I'm happy with the beer, it lands kind of in the middle of the road as far as my NEIPAs go. This is the first time I've brewed a double, and one of the only times I've deviated from my 3 main hazy recipes. Next time, I think I'd shoot for closer to 7.5% to 8%, dial back the IBU's and ditch the dextrose. I also went back to soft crashing before dry hop, and I actually wonder if dry hopping slightly cooler (high 50's/low 60's) decreased the aroma, not sure.

I still want to experiment more with oat/wheat heavy grain bills more. I tried Brujos Ad Arma for the first time, best NEIPA I've had in a really long time, and best triple NEIPA I've ever had by far... Apparently they are inspired by Troon and go really heavy on oats & wheat. Incredible stuff.

View attachment 816301

The beer does look great.

What did you do for the mash? Also, you dry hopped twice after fermentation? Did you drop the hops and then dry hop again?

Also, I find single dry hopped beers to be very hit or miss. Sometimes, your mind is blown with all of the aroma, flavor, and complexity coming through. Other times, it’s very meh and leaves you wanting more.

 

[anteater8]

The beer does look great.

What did you do for the mash? Also, you dry hopped twice after fermentation? Did you drop the hops and then dry hop again?

Also, I find single dry hopped beers to be very hit or miss. Sometimes, your mind is blown with all of the aroma, flavor, and complexity coming through. Other times, it’s very meh and leaves you wanting more.

Single infusion mash at 155. And yeah, I soft crashed to 50 for two days, let it raise closer to room temp for another two days, added dry hop #1, a day later added dry hop #2, started cold crashing a day after that. I didn't soft crash between dry hops.

Great point on the single hop. I've had great success with all Mosaic before but that was years ago. Who knows what the difference in crop was like.

 

[Komodo]

Single infusion mash at 155. And yeah, I soft crashed to 50 for two days, let it raise closer to room temp for another two days, added dry hop #1, a day later added dry hop #2, started cold crashing a day after that. I didn't soft crash between dry hops.

Great point on the single hop. I've had great success with all Mosaic before but that was years ago. Who knows what the difference in crop was like.

What were your soft / cold crash temps?

 

[secretlevel]

Any feedback is welcome and thanks again for all the insights in this thread.

If you can't manage a step-mash, I'd definitely opt for 152-155F at most, especially if you go for a higher OG. 158F could give you lots of unfermentables and a higher FG than you opted for.

Bottling. I'm one of the people claiming that it worked for me... to an extent. Do I still bottle? No. Does it work for a month or two? Yes. Drink it fast or give it away, don't plan on holding on to those bottles for longer than 2 months.
Instructions:
- ferment in a bucket or a fermenter with a spigot
- cold crash
- bottle straight from this bucket (first bottle is a dumper due to all the trub)
- add carbing solution or carb drops to each bottle before bottling
- be sure to fill almost all the way. Touch the wand to the bottle neck to get the fill all the way up within 1/2" of the cap.

 

[anteater8]

What were your soft / cold crash temps?

Soft down to ~50, dry hop at ~60, cold crash to ~38

 

[Rob2010SS]

What ratio have you guys used Motueka / Citra in and what were your thoughts? Looking to use this combo and right now, based on oil content, thinking a 2:1 ratio (Mot : Cit) on both the hot side and cold side.

 

[Dgallo]

What ratio have you guys used Motueka / Citra in and what were your thoughts? Looking to use this combo and right now, based on oil content, thinking a 2:1 ratio (Mot : Cit) on both the hot side and cold side.

That’s what I would do

 

[anteater8]

What ratio have you guys used Motueka / Citra in and what were your thoughts? Looking to use this combo and right now, based on oil content, thinking a 2:1 ratio (Mot : Cit) on both the hot side and cold side.

I also agree with this ratio, I've brewed it twice and its one of my all time favorites.

 

[Rob2010SS]

That’s what I would do

Haha, I'm glad you replied. I see a lot of your recommendations on what ratio's to use hop combos in and for a while I was like how the F does he know? Then I saw you comment about the oil content so that's exactly what I started looking at and how I decided 2:1 on this. So, thanks for sharing your learning!

 

[Rob2010SS]

I also agree with this ratio, I've brewed it twice and its one of my all time favorites.

Really glad to hear that actually!! Super pumped to try it.

 

[ihavenonickname]

I’m about to dry hop motueka, citra, mosaic, I7 at 8, 6, 4, 1 oz each. Because that’s the quantities that are convenient for storage. But I guess I could up the portion or motueka if you feel pretty strongly about that.

 

[James Quall]

I’m about to dry hop motueka, citra, mosaic, I7 at 8, 6, 4, 1 oz each. Because that’s the quantities that are convenient for storage. But I guess I could up the portion or motueka if you feel pretty strongly about that.

What size batch? 5 or 10 gallon?

 

[Dgallo]

Haha, I'm glad you replied. I see a lot of your recommendations on what ratio's to use hop combos in and for a while I was like how the F does he know? Then I saw you comment about the oil content so that's exactly what I started looking at and how I decided 2:1 on this. So, thanks for sharing your learning!

No problem man. I hope it’s been semi helpful to folks. It’s def not fool proof but gives you at least an idea of the potency. Experience has been quite a bit more helpful with ratios though.

 

[ihavenonickname]

@James Quall yeah that’s for 5gallons finished in the keg. Admittedly this is a bit of an alternative opinion on here… but I really think massive dry hops make the best versions of these beer. 8-10 oz just isn’t that much.

The more interviews, podcasts, articles I read from pro brewers the more I hear most brewers (at least of the IPAs I really love) start at 4lb/barrel dry hop for single IPAs — and for us thats 12 oz, not 8! Pros talk about the barrels of their batch size as what went into the fermenter, and then use yield (say 75-80%) to account for dry hop losses. So I’m using 6gallons into the fermenter for my calculations. And I think minimum 4-6 lb/Bll is pretty key to what I like - that thick, murky, big body, hop soup style of hazy. Now don’t get me wrong I think you can make a great hazy ipa with 6-8 oz DH and if the hops are great the aroma can be really punchy. But it’s just not the same effect and a way bigger DH that has been handled well (low O2, low hop burn, and given time to condition)

A pro recipe reference
https://beerandbrewing.com/recipe-deep-fried-trestlemania/
https://beerandbrewing.com/recipe-burke-gilman-the-hopsplainer/

 

[user 299976]

@James Quall yeah that’s for 5gallons finished in the keg. Admittedly this is a bit of an alternative opinion on here… but I really think massive dry hops make the best versions of these beer. 8-10 oz just isn’t that much.

The more interviews, podcasts, articles I read from pro brewers the more I hear most brewers (at least of the IPAs I really love) start at 4lb/barrel dry hop for single IPAs — and for us thats 12 oz, not 8! Pros talk about the barrels of their batch size as what went into the fermenter, and then use yield (say 75-80%) to account for dry hop losses. So I’m using 6gallons into the fermenter for my calculations. And I think minimum 4-6 lb/Bll is pretty key to what I like - that thick, murky, big body, hop soup style of hazy. Now don’t get me wrong I think you can make a great hazy ipa with 6-8 oz DH and if the hops are great the aroma can be really punchy. But it’s just not the same effect and a way bigger DH that has been handled well (low O2, low hop burn, and given time to condition)

A pro recipe reference
https://beerandbrewing.com/recipe-deep-fried-trestlemania/
https://beerandbrewing.com/recipe-burke-gilman-the-hopsplainer/

@ihavenonickname, thanks for posting links above. I read both and also dug down to “Pushing Hop Flavor to Its Outer Limits”. That was a great read with a ton of information. Many (most) of the discussion points have been reported in some fashion on this forum. That’s why IMO, this site is the leading source for Northeast style IPA. Thanks to all for making this forum such a good informative resource.

 

[James Quall]

@James Quall yeah that’s for 5gallons finished in the keg. Admittedly this is a bit of an alternative opinion on here… but I really think massive dry hops make the best versions of these beer. 8-10 oz just isn’t that much.

The more interviews, podcasts, articles I read from pro brewers the more I hear most brewers (at least of the IPAs I really love) start at 4lb/barrel dry hop for single IPAs — and for us thats 12 oz, not 8! Pros talk about the barrels of their batch size as what went into the fermenter, and then use yield (say 75-80%) to account for dry hop losses. So I’m using 6gallons into the fermenter for my calculations. And I think minimum 4-6 lb/Bll is pretty key to what I like - that thick, murky, big body, hop soup style of hazy. Now don’t get me wrong I think you can make a great hazy ipa with 6-8 oz DH and if the hops are great the aroma can be really punchy. But it’s just not the same effect and a way bigger DH that has been handled well (low O2, low hop burn, and given time to condition)

A pro recipe reference
https://beerandbrewing.com/recipe-deep-fried-trestlemania/
https://beerandbrewing.com/recipe-burke-gilman-the-hopsplainer/

Thanks for the response and the links to the articles. Much appreciated. I actually live in South Florida, and 3 Sons Brewery is my go-to down here. I think I might have to get a subscription for beer and brewing to view that recipe.

I am definitely not arguing against it. I was asking for clarification. From what I have seen most people use 10-14 oz in the dry hop for a 5 gallon batch (what fits in a standard corny keg). 6-8 oz is not enough from my own experience and I have had better luck around 12-ish oz but haven't pushed it much beyond due to seeing other posts saying it's advised not to go too far beyond at the homebrew level for a 5 gallon batch.

I am definitely curious, have you used a 19 oz dry hop before? If so what were your results?

 

[Dgallo]

I just want everyone to understand that many of the breweries being discussed and the best NEIPA breweries that are stating they are doing 6-8lb/bbl are doing the equivalence of that amount using advanced hop products and not 100% t90.

Also a big difference between them and us is that they are hand selecting lots and getting contracted hops which are of far better quality than any of the hops we can source through hb shops.

I can confidently say that If you are dryhoping at 2-2.5 oz/gallon, roughly 4-5lbs/bbl with purely t90, You are in the ball park of what the best are doing it. Especially if you have the ability to agitate or rouse your dryhops.

To put this more into perspective say you are using;
1oz per gallon of t90
1.5oz per gallons of cryo
That would be the equivalent of doing 7lb/gallon dryhop of just t90

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

7lb/barrel

FTFY

 

[ihavenonickname]

Yeah I agree. And to be clear 2-2.5 oz per gallon as you suggest is really 12-15 oz of t90 for us.

My plan above of 19oz DH I am reporting that as t90 equivalent- it’s actually 4 oz of Lupo max (=6oz of t90) and 2 oz cry (=4oz t90). So I’ll be dropping 15oz total mass but it’s 19 oz equivalent). My last batch I did 15oz t90 and it got me where I wanted… pretty much.

But yeah to account for our lack of hop quality being a little less pungent, I think it makes sense to aim for a higher DH rate than the pros do. So I’m wanting to push it a little more, of course at the risk of too much veg matter.

But again I dont think this big DH rate is necessary for everyone to do to make a great example, but it does have its positive effects that I’m looking for in the final product.

 

[Dgallo]

Yeah I agree. And to be clear 2-2.5 oz per gallon as you suggest is really 12-15 oz of t90 for us.

My plan above of 19oz DH I am reporting that as t90 equivalent- it’s actually 4 oz of Lupo max (=6oz of t90) and 2 oz cry (=4oz t90). So I’ll be dropping 15oz total mass but it’s 19 oz equivalent). My last batch I did 15oz t90 and it got me where I wanted… pretty much.

But yeah to account for our lack of hop quality being a little less pungent, I think it makes sense to aim for a higher DH rate than the pros do. So I’m wanting to push it a little more, of course at the risk of too much veg matter.

But again I dont think this big DH rate is necessary for everyone to do to make a great example, but it does have its positive effects that I’m looking for in the final product.

Hop quality doesn’t always account for potency. It also has to do with the clarity/quality of the character its self. By increasing the amount you are also increasing the off characters in some of the hops. Take my recent west coast ipa I did. It’s ok but I definitely went too high with talus and it has pretty strong undertones of the cedar character. Since I elevated the talus too much the finish of this beer is like chewing on a popsicle stick, which I dislike about the beer.

I think it all comes down to the pure quality of the hop. If you have some solid hops then I’d imagine you can push the limit

 

[beervoid]

Hop quality doesn’t always account for potency. It also has to do with the clarity/quality of the character its self. By increasing the amount you are also increasing the off characters in some of the hops. Take my recent west coast ipa I did. It’s ok but I definitely went too high with talus and it has pretty strong undertones of the cedar character. Since I elevated the talus too much the finish of this beer is like chewing on a popsicle stick, which I dislike about the beer.

I think it all comes down to the pure quality of the hop. If you have some solid hops then I’d imagine you can push the limit

I'd also wonder how much extraction you would be able to get out of static dryhopping big dryhop amounts with yeast present in the fv, which most homebrewers do.

 

[Dgallo]

I'd also wonder how much extraction you would be able to get out of static dryhopping big dryhop amounts with yeast present in the fv, which most homebrewers do.

I’d say that’s also a factor. That said as homebrewers we can physically move our equipment by hand so if you do have the ability to drop or get off the yeast, say a dryhoping keg or similar (I use closed transfer fermonsters) you can physically roll and agitate the keg. So we do have the potential (equipment dependent) to get better extraction

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I just want everyone to understand that many of the breweries being discussed and the best NEIPA breweries that are stating they are doing 6-8lb/bbl are doing the equivalence of that amount using advanced hop products and not 100% t90.

Also a big difference between them and us is that they are hand selecting lots and getting contracted hops which are of far better quality than any of the hops we can source through hb shops.

The other big difference between us and commercial breweries is that they can bring technology like centrifuges to the party, which can reduce the grassiness of big dry hop loads as well as increasing yields.

 

[Langerz]

Look at what you people made me do! I’m joking it was going to happen eventually anyway. Now next weekend a “practice run” with something easier and a couple weeks after that the real thing.

I’ve picked up a lot regarding closed transfers/kegging etc reading this and other threads, but also probably need to educate myself a bit there too. I’ll search around the forum but if there are any places people want me to short cut me toward I’d appreciate it. I’ll start this weekend with cleaning.

 

[aaronm13]

This is my last beer a Citra/Nelson/Nectaron DIPA. Last weekend it won gold in the Irish National Homebrew competition in the American IPA category. Was really happy with the win and backs up I'm heading in the right direction with my process. Recipe is

Pale malt 38%
Golden Promise 10%
Naked oat malt 23%
Flaked Oat 8%
Spelt 12%
Carafoam 8%
Cara malt 1%

Dry hop
6oz Citra (t90 and Lupomax)
3oz Nelson
3oz Nectaron

OG 1.085
FG 1.022
Verdant yeast

I brewed this about 5 weeks before the competition to give me plenty of time to condition. At kegging it tasted very good but extremely green so could see the potential. Over the next few weeks it took a nose dive flavorwise. It became so boozy, citra totally died off and was pretty unpleasant to drink. 5 days before entries needed to be submitted I decided to add 2oz of citra and 1oz Nelson. This was the game changer again. Beer was back on track. As of now this was the beer I wanted to brew and reckon I would have scored better if it had another week on the additional hops. I don't like having to do this but all the best beers I've brewed I've had to do this. Going back on the feedback on the score sheets they mentioned esters were not very strong.

What's the best way to boost this? I've gotten pretty lazy lately with just using new packs of Verdant so maybe I should start harvesting and get a few generations out of a pitch. I usually pitch at 65, let free rise to 68/69 and hold for around 2 days then let free rise to 72/73 to finish off.

 

[Dgallo]

This is my last beer a Citra/Nelson/Nectaron DIPA. Last weekend it won gold in the Irish National Homebrew competition in the American IPA category. Was really happy with the win and backs up I'm heading in the right direction with my process. Recipe is

Pale malt 38%
Golden Promise 10%
Naked oat malt 23%
Flaked Oat 8%
Spelt 12%
Carafoam 8%
Cara malt 1%

Dry hop
6oz Citra (t90 and Lupomax)
3oz Nelson
3oz Nectaron

OG 1.085
FG 1.022
Verdant yeast

I brewed this about 5 weeks before the competition to give me plenty of time to condition. At kegging it tasted very good but extremely green so could see the potential. Over the next few weeks it took a nose dive flavorwise. It became so boozy, citra totally died off and was pretty unpleasant to drink. 5 days before entries needed to be submitted I decided to add 2oz of citra and 1oz Nelson. This was the game changer again. Beer was back on track. As of now this was the beer I wanted to brew and reckon I would have scored better if it had another week on the additional hops. I don't like having to do this but all the best beers I've brewed I've had to do this. Going back on the feedback on the score sheets they mentioned esters were not very strong.

What's the best way to boost this? I've gotten pretty lazy lately with just using new packs of Verdant so maybe I should start harvesting and get a few generations out of a pitch. I usually pitch at 65, let free rise to 68/69 and hold for around 2 days then let free rise to 72/73 to finish off.

Congrats on the hardware!

 

[aaronm13]

Congrats on the hardware!

Thanks man. I owe a lot of it to you for all the advice over the last few years.