New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[bailey mountain brewer]

I can’t even to begin to give any science it.

If I were to try the whirlpool after a dryhop, I’d scrap the top off that would have excess yeast. Then use the middle portion so might say I’m using 60-70-% of original volume. (Might be generous, have no idea) and count it as 1/2 of the calculated ibus you’d get from that size of a whirlpool with fresh hops

Sure that makes sense, I have a conical so I feel as though I get rid of most yeast before dryhopping, but still some is there, take the best of what's left and use that.. it's an interesting theory, I'd have to do a small batch to try it, I could take a clean dump (doesn't sound clean at all haha) from my 15gal conical and use what looks best for the whirlpool of a 5 gallon batch... almost like when you harvest yeast, you get rid of the first bit, keep the middle and leave the rest behind. The wheels are turning brother...

 

[Dgallo]

Sure that makes sense, I have a conical so I feel as though I get rid of most yeast before dryhopping, but still some is there, take the best of what's left and use that.. it's an interesting theory, I'd have to do a small batch to try it, I could take a clean dump (doesn't sound clean at all haha) from my 15gal conical and use what looks best for the whirlpool of a 5 gallon batch... almost like when you harvest yeast, you get rid of the first bit, keep the middle and leave the rest behind. The wheels are turning brother...

I’d be interested in your outcome. I def could see it working in theory at least and as long as I time up my brew days, it would work well

 

[Fergal]

Here's the article couch sending mentioned: https://beerandbrewing.com/elements-of-beer-recycling-hops-in-the-brewhouse/

A starting point for whirlpool utilisation:

 

[Dgallo]

Here's the article couch sending mentioned: https://beerandbrewing.com/elements-of-beer-recycling-hops-in-the-brewhouse/

A starting point for whirlpool utilisation:

View attachment 858617

sounds like hotside would give you more bang for your buck

 

[Bobby_M]

Dgallo pretty much summed up what I disagree with in relation to the styles. I don't agree with the mouthfeel section as a creamy mouthfeel is acceptable and pretty much a given in higher end examples of this style, i.e. Fidens, Equilibrium, Verdant etc. Verdant's yeast even states it leaves a creamy mouthfeel.

Flavor section only mentions fruity or tropical hops but newer hops are bringing so much more, Stratsa for example is very dank and the New Zealand hops bring so much more complexity than just straight up fruit.

I also don't fully agree with appearance as cloudy/ murky is also pretty common in great examples. If this is as you say to prevent milkshake IPAs from dominating this leads to another argument that milkshake IPA needs it's own category or should probably be entered in speciality IPA. This is on the brewer to enter the beer in the correct category.

I understand there has to be a guideline to follow or it just becomes a beauty contest but marking people down for very acceptable characteristics especially if the judge isn't overly familiar with the style shows a flaw in the guidelines to me.

In fairness to BJCP, the guidelines often lag behind fast moving and evolving styles primarily because edits take a while and judge training and testing is anchored to a specific edition of the guidelines and it's hard to study when the source material changes out from under you.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

My latest hazy turned out quite nice and probably one of my better batches. I ended up going with:

• Idaho-7 and Mosaic on the hotside (1 oz at 5 min, 4 oz at 180F for 20 min)
• Idaho-7, Mosaic and El Dorado in the dry hop (8 oz total)
• Grain Bill: 71% 2-Row, 7% Light Munich, 11% Malted Wheat, 11% Flaked Oats.
• Yeast: Imperial Juice
• OG: 1.067
• FG: 1.018
• ABV: 6.5%

It is probably more similar to a Sierra Nevada Hazy Little Thing as far as hop intensity and mouthfeel than one from a big name hazy brewery, but that is where I like my beers. I still have a lot of hops in the freezer to use up, so I hope to focus on making several batches of hoppy beers over the next 6 months. My girlfriend likes the thick, hop saturated, Hazy Double IPAs, so maybe I will have to try for something like that at some point.

• 

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I’d be interested in your outcome. I def could see it working in theory at least and as long as I time up my brew days, it would work well

Yeah, the next part to figure out would be how to weigh them, obviously the hops coming out of the fermenter will weigh significantly more then their previous pellet form. So say I use a dryhop from a 15 gallon batch, that would be 36ish oz of dry hops, for a whirlpool I'd want say 14oz of spent hops for what would be 6 to 7 gal of wort for the 5 gallon batch being they are down by 50% after coming out of the fermenter, but knowing they will be wet they will weigh more. So what, round up to 20 oz of spent dry hops for the whirlpool? Or is there a better way to calculate this.

 

[balrog]

Yeah, the next part to figure out would be how to weigh them, obviously the hops coming out of the fermenter will weigh significantly more then their previous pellet form. So say I use a dryhop from a 15 gallon batch, that would be 36ish oz of dry hops, for a whirlpool I'd want say 14oz of spent hops for what would be 6 to 7 gal of wort for the 5 gallon batch being they are down by 50% after coming out of the fermenter, but knowing they will be wet they will weigh more. So what, round up to 20 oz of spent dry hops for the whirlpool? Or is there a better way to calculate this.

My immediate thought is that hops are considered by some calculators of water usage (this this one), that hops absorb 0.040 gal of water per oz of hops. You could simply add that much water weight to the hops used. Mebee.

 

[Dgallo]

Yeah, the next part to figure out would be how to weigh them, obviously the hops coming out of the fermenter will weigh significantly more than their previous pellet form. So say I use a dryhop from a 15 gallon batch, that would be 36ish oz of dry hops, for a whirlpool I'd want say 14oz of spent hops for what would be 6 to 7 gal of wort for the 5 gallon batch being they are down by 50% after coming out of the fermenter, but knowing they will be wet they will weigh more. So what, round up to 20 oz of spent dry hops for the whirlpool? Or is there a better way to calculate this.

I wouldn’t even think about the wet weight. It’s from absorption of wort, it’s not like it’s now more hops. So say your dryhop was 10 oz and you know your only getting 50%, so I would factor them in as the are 5 oz.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Got it, well who knows, I'll be brewing a big batch in the next couple weeks so maybe I'll plan a small test batch 3 weeks later, if things work out.

 

[NZhomebrew]

Random thought but I wonder if you could “sparge” dry hops. Transfer half into the dry hop keg, wait 48 hours, transfer off then repeat with the other half.

 

[DonT]

Random thought but I wonder if you could “sparge” dry hops. Transfer half into the dry hop keg, wait 48 hours, transfer off then repeat with the other half.

I believe they call that "double dry hop"... or DDH

 

[Fergal]

So my experiment has hit a crossroads. I've been keeping a much closer eye on my ph levels lately and noticed that my last two beers mashed at a higher ph than I predicted. I was using a new malt so assumed that might be affecting things (I always calibrate on brew day and keep the probe wet but its a few years old). Anyway, I but the bullet and changed the probe. My pre dry hop ph is 3.9.....
In terms of the experiment the aroma seems massive, really over ripe (like really over ripe) fruit aromas and smells kind of like the very early stages of a cider fermentation without the sulphur if anyone is familiar. I don't think it's the green apple off flavour but it could be.

So what's the consensus on whether I keep it and dry hop or chuck it down the drain? It's a relatively inexpensive beer at this rate but I'm about to hit it with nectaron, riwaka and nelson.. I know the ph will increase - perhaps as far as 4.2 but I feel like it will still be a bit tart. Has anyone ever intentionally increased the ph after fermentation? Should I cut my losses before I throw some expensive hops at it. My dry hop was going to be about 16g/L and it's a 19L batch.

 

[Dgallo]

So my experiment has hit a crossroads. I've been keeping a much closer eye on my ph levels lately and noticed that my last two beers mashed at a higher ph than I predicted. I was using a new malt so assumed that might be affecting things (I always calibrate on brew day and keep the probe wet but it’s a few years old). Anyway, I but the bullet and changed the probe. My pre dry hop ph is 3.9.....
In terms of the experiment the aroma seems massive, really over ripe (like really over ripe) fruit aromas and smells kind of like the very early stages of a cider fermentation without the sulphur if anyone is familiar. I don't think it's the green apple off flavour but it could be.

So what's the consensus on whether I keep it and dry hop or chuck it down the drain? It's a relatively inexpensive beer at this rate but I'm about to hit it with nectaron, riwaka and nelson.. I know the ph will increase - perhaps as far as 4.2 but I feel like it will still be a bit tart. Has anyone ever intentionally increased the ph after fermentation? Should I cut my losses before I throw some expensive hops at it. My dry hop was going to be about 16g/L and it's a 19L batch.

3.9 is an appropriate finishing ph for beer, a lot of yeast will bring the ph sub 4. You definitely shouldn’t be “tart” at anything 4 or above. Almost every ale you have drank besides a hazy ipa are finishing 3.9-4.2.

If you have any concerns it’s acetaldehyde (green apple), keep the beer on the yeast and warm it up to the low 70s. It’s a precursor to alcohol so the yeast should metabolize it and properly convert it.

All that said, your the best judge of the beer your tasting, if you think there is something off and you think it should be dumped, dump it. But I will first warm it up a bit, rouse the yeast a bit (keeping o2 management in mind) and give it a few days

 

[secretlevel]

So my experiment has hit a crossroads. I've been keeping a much closer eye on my ph levels lately and noticed that my last two beers mashed at a higher ph than I predicted. I was using a new malt so assumed that might be affecting things (I always calibrate on brew day and keep the probe wet but its a few years old). Anyway, I but the bullet and changed the probe. My pre dry hop ph is 3.9.....
In terms of the experiment the aroma seems massive, really over ripe (like really over ripe) fruit aromas and smells kind of like the very early stages of a cider fermentation without the sulphur if anyone is familiar. I don't think it's the green apple off flavour but it could be.

So what's the consensus on whether I keep it and dry hop or chuck it down the drain? It's a relatively inexpensive beer at this rate but I'm about to hit it with nectaron, riwaka and nelson.. I know the ph will increase - perhaps as far as 4.2 but I feel like it will still be a bit tart. Has anyone ever intentionally increased the ph after fermentation? Should I cut my losses before I throw some expensive hops at it. My dry hop was going to be about 16g/L and it's a 19L batch.

I wouldn't judge anything based on the aroma that the yeast is blowing off during fermentation. Let the beer fully ferment and then taste it.

 

[Fergal]

I would be pretty confident that fermentation is complete. Spent 5 days at ferment temps with no signs of anything. Then I bumped it up by 1c every day for 3 days. Yesterday I soft crashed it down to 10c but I'm away for the weekend so won't see it until tomorrow. I didn't realise most ales finished that low to be honest. I was kind of under the impression that anything in the 3s was bordering on sour territory. I've been aiming for a finished ph of 4.3 to 4.4 for my hoppy beers but haven't tracked any others. I'll see what I go back to tomorrow and make a call. Incidentally I finished 4 points lower than my prediction fg. I had some aldc in from ferment and definitely couldn't pick up any butterscotch..

 

[Dgallo]

I would be pretty confident that fermentation is complete. Spent 5 days at ferment temps with no signs of anything. Then I bumped it up by 1c every day for 3 days. Yesterday I soft crashed it down to 10c but I'm away for the weekend so won't see it until tomorrow. I didn't realise most ales finished that low to be honest. I was kind of under the impression that anything in the 3s was bordering on sour territory. I've been aiming for a finished ph of 4.3 to 4.4 for my hoppy beers but haven't tracked any others. I'll see what I go back to tomorrow and make a call. Incidentally I finished 4 points lower than my prediction fg. I had some aldc in from ferment and definitely couldn't pick up any butterscotch..

Even if there is no sugar left in the wort that the yeast can consume, they continue to “eat” and can clean up any VDK or acetaldehyde.

What yeast did you use? Any chance your smelling sulfur? Giving it like an eggy rotten note.

 

[kurds_2408]

Any problem mixing Lupomax/Cryo hops and whole leaf for the dry hop? Im going to make a Citra/Simcoe/Cascade and have a ton of Cascade from my home plant but wanted to use Lupo/Cryo for the others to save some beer loss. I've never used either product before.

 

[Dgallo]

Any problem mixing Lupomax/Cryo hops and whole leaf for the dry hop? Im going to make a Citra/Simcoe/Cascade and have a ton of Cascade from my home plant but wanted to use Lupo/Cryo for the others to save some beer loss. I've never used either product before.

No problem but be prepared for the wort loss of wort for the whole cone.

I’ve brewed a wet hop all the last few years where I’ve been able to use some wet hops in the dryhop, and you loose a lot of volume. 6.5 gallons yielded just at 5 gallons with a dryhop of 20 oz of wet Columbus, 4 oz of citra lupomax and 2 oz of t90 Columbus

 

[kurds_2408]

No problem but be prepared for the wort loss of wort for the whole cone.

I’ve brewed a wet hop all the last few years where I’ve been able to use some wet hops in the dryhop, and you loose a lot of volume. 6.5 gallons yielded just at 5 gallons with a dryhop of 20 oz of wet Columbus, 4 oz of citra lupomax and 2 oz of t90 Columbus

I was a little worried about that. I’m planning to brew this several times so maybe cut down on how much leaf I use and spread them over several batches.

 

[Dgallo]

I was a little worried about that. I’m planning to brew this several times so maybe cut down on how much leaf I use and spread them over several batches.

In my experience, use your homegrown hops as soon as possible. That’s the benefit of growing them at home, the absolute freshness.

Just plan your beers for the wort/beer volume loss you know you’ll get.

 

[Fergal]

Even if there is no sugar left in the wort that the yeast can consume, they continue to “eat” and can clean up any VDK or acetaldehyde.

What yeast did you use? Any chance your smelling sulfur? Giving it like an eggy rotten note.

Good call. Got back home and poured a sample. The more it warmed up the more eggy it got. I am surprised given how long I gave it to ferment but hey ho! Still not convinced it's a keeper but I'll raise the temp and give it a few days to see what happens.

 

[Dgallo]

Good call. Got back home and poured a sample. The more it warmed up the more eggy it got. I am surprised given how long I gave it to ferment but hey ho! Still not convinced it's a keeper but I'll raise the temp and give it a few days to see what happens.

If it’s sulfur, that’s something that will degas which is a good thing. You can try to knock it out with agitation or you can actually use a bit of copper.

 

[Shenanigans]

I brewed up a Heady Topper-like beer about a week ago and want to do a soft crash tonight or tomorrow. This will be my first time doing a soft crash for dry hopping purposes. The yeast I used was the Gozdawa East Coast which is dry yeast variant of Conan. The data sheet says its range is from 12 to 25oC with optimal temperature of 15 to 22oC. So, I was thinking of soft crashing to 10oC (50 F).
How long is the typical soft crash before adding the dry hops, can I leave it at 10oC for the dry hopping?

Thanks!

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I soft crash for 2 or 3 days at 50f, then dry hop at 55f .. I have a conical so I can drop the yeast out, if you can't then I'd think 50f would be OK to dry hop at. Or if you can transfer off the yeast into a dryhop vessel via a closed transfer that would be ideal.

 

[Shenanigans]

I soft crash for 2 or 3 days at 50f, then dry hop at 55f .. I have a conical so I can drop the yeast out, if you can't then I'd think 50f would be OK to dry hop at. Or if you can transfer off the yeast into a dryhop vessel via a closed transfer that would be ideal.

Thanks, I don't have a conical so will give it a go at 50.

 

[Mjpetrag]

Looking for the best Nelson available right now for a hazy. Not sure if I should go with YVH, YCH, or something else. Also crop year too. My preference is to get that slight late harvest flavor where it’s a little diesel but not overwhelming. It will be 10 oz Citra and 8 oz Nelson in the dry hop.

 

[LumberZach]

So what's the consensus about 2024 Galaxy? Is it worth buying? I buy pretty much all my hops from YVH. Have any of you had good luck with 2024 Galaxy from them?

 

[Dgallo]

Looking for the best Nelson available right now for a hazy. Not sure if I should go with YVH, YCH, or something else. Also crop year too. My preference is to get that slight late harvest flavor where it’s a little diesel but not overwhelming. It will be 10 oz Citra and 8 oz Nelson in the dry hop.

Try YVH 23’ if they still have any. Wasn’t overly winey but it was there and it had some Diesel too. It also had an earthy herbaceous character.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

So what's the consensus about 2024 Galaxy? Is it worth buying? I buy pretty much all my hops from YVH. Have any of you had good luck with 2024 Galaxy from them?

I'll be brewing a beer next weekend I intend to use it in, however I won't know the results for about a month, unless I open them for the dry hop and they smell like a bag of cheesedoodles.

 

[aaronm13]

Try YVH 23’ if they still have any. Wasn’t overly winey but it was there and it had some Diesel too. It also had an earthy herbaceous character.

YVH Nelson was ok but thought it lacked a lot of that "Nelson" character if you know what I mean. Waiting for the 24 batch to show up. I got some supposedly 24 Nelson from my LHS, hadn't seen it anywhere else so really have my doubts, opened the bag and smelled of nothing. I was dry hopping my recent beer last week and knocked my last 2oz of Nelson on the floor so really feel the beer lacked it, decided to by some local and add to the keg. All it's done is add vegetable matter/flavor to the beer. I'm gutted. Never buying hops local again.

 

[Dgallo]

YVH Nelson was ok but thought it lacked a lot of that "Nelson" character if you know what I mean. Waiting for the 24 batch to show up. I got some supposedly 24 Nelson from my LHS, hadn't seen it anywhere else so really have my doubts, opened the bag and smelled of nothing. I was dry hopping my recent beer last week and knocked my last 2oz of Nelson on the floor so really feel the beer lacked it, decided to by some local and add to the keg. All it's done is add vegetable matter/flavor to the beer. I'm gutted. Never buying hops local again.

Yeah I don’t disagree. I’ve been fortunate to have gotten freestyle Nelson lately. It’s good but it doesn’t really have that classic wine character either. Might be environmental

 

[aaronm13]

Yeah I don’t disagree. I’ve been fortunate to have gotten freestyle Nelson lately. It’s good but it doesn’t really have that classic wine character either. Might be environmental

Hopefully it's not changing profile say the way Galaxy did. Think the diesel was low on the 23 YVH Nelson I got.

 

[TBA]

Anyone have notes on ‘22 Nelson? I have been sitting on that bag for a couple years…

 

[Dgallo]

Anyone have notes on ‘22 Nelson? I have been sitting on that bag for a couple years…

22 Nelson was really good for me

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I still have some 22 nelson, used it in my last NEIPA, turned out great, paired it with nectaron.

 

[TBA]

I still have some 22 nelson, used it in my last NEIPA, turned out great, paired it with nectaron.

I have a small amount of nectaron left. What was you whirlpool and dry hop rate?

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

I have a small amount of nectaron left. What was you whirlpool and dry hop rate?

I'll check my notes and let you know

 

[Shenanigans]

And Galaxy 2023 how was that?
I have 100g in the freezer and might use it for a really old Stone Enjoy By IPA clone recipe.

https://www.bertusbrewery.com/2013/04/ipa-clone-series-stone-enjoy-by-ipa.html

It has 3oz each of Galaxy and Nelson in the dry hop but I'll up it to 100g to use up the whole pack.
The Nelson I have is 2022 leaf.
Last time I tried this recipe was about 5 years ago and I didn't know anything about the background and how to combat hop burn.
Also that these two hops are some of the worst culprits for it.
It was undrinkable for about a month in the keg and still wasn't very plesant after that.
This time I'll cold/soft crash before dry hopping and add some Beersol to the keg.

 

[wepeeler]

Just bottled up 5 entries (1 NEIPA) for SNERHC. Friggin bottles are going to be sitting for 2 weeks before being judged. I'll be sure to post scoresheets, but this tweaked version scored a 41 in the last comp. It was one of 6 in a mini BoS. Fingers crossed! Citra Strata!