Planning my next beer to be a Hefe

[redrocker652002]

So, my next beer is going the be a Hefe and while I have the recipe pretty nailed down, after reading a few threads I am in a bit of a quandary. My initial plan was to use the Weinstaphen (sp?) strain, but have been reading about the WLP300 and the Munich classic and am torn now on what yeast to use. I am looking more for the banana than the clove but I read that is really a temp thing. So, all knowing ones, which would you use?

https://share.brewfather.app/uoAicKi5ZJAis9

this is the recipe I am going to use.

 

[Brockness Monster]

Of the White Labs strains, WLP300 is the banana-iest strain. I haven't made one in a long while, but I remember pitching plenty of yeast, plenty of oxygen and a little near the high range of temperatures produced by best batches with solid banana esters. Honestly never tried the Munich Classic, but I hear great things.

 

[dmtaylor]

You can't go wrong with any of the yeasts mentioned above. I haven't used them side by side to know which one(s) I might like best, but have used them at different times on different batches and was pleased with the results of each.

 

[VTMongoose]

You can't go wrong with WLP300, WY3068, or Fermentis W-68. They are all functionally the same. My personal preference is for either the White Labs or Fermentis versions, just because I've gotten a lot of bad/dead pitches from Wyeast over the years. I like to pitch around 64-65°F and then slowly raise over the course of a week to anywhere from 68 to 71°F. You can ferment all the way at 68°F, nothing wrong with that, I just prefer more clove flavor.

I would strongly recommend the inclusion of a light Munich malt, around 15-25% of the grist. This is excellent at simulating decoction flavors and giving it a bit of color. A picture of mine below uses a locally produced 5.5°L Munich at 27% of the grist. I promise your malt character will be slightly sour and slightly boring without at least a little Munich in there, unless pale color is all you care about.

I would mash at 150°F instead of 153, and mash a long time (75+ minutes). You want this style to be as dry as possible.

 

[redrocker652002]

You can't go wrong with WLP300, WY3068, or Fermentis W-68. They are all functionally the same. My personal preference is for either the White Labs or Fermentis versions, just because I've gotten a lot of bad/dead pitches from Wyeast over the years. I like to pitch around 64-65°F and then slowly raise over the course of a week to anywhere from 68 to 71°F. You can ferment all the way at 68°F, nothing wrong with that, I just prefer more clove flavor.

I would strongly recommend the inclusion of a light Munich malt, around 15-25% of the grist. This is excellent at simulating decoction flavors and giving it a bit of color. A picture of mine below uses a locally produced 5.5°L Munich at 27% of the grist. I promise your malt character will be slightly sour and slightly boring without at least a little Munich in there, unless pale color is all you care about.

I would mash at 150°F instead of 153, and mash a long time (75+ minutes). You want this style to be as dry as possible.

View attachment 883809

So given the grist I have how would you distribute the percentages?

 

[monkeymath]

Whatever you do, please don't call it "Hefe" that's literally just "yeast". You don't want to serve a pint of yeast.

Here in Bavaria we usually call it "Weißbier" (literally "white beer", with double-s as a substitute for ß if needed) or sometimes "Weizen" ("wheat"). If you want to be all technical, "Hefeweizen" (yes "yeast wheat") is a more formal term.

 

[Miraculix]

Whatever you do, please don't call it "Hefe" that's literally just "yeast". You don't want to serve a pint of yeast.

Here in Bavaria we usually call it "Weißbier" (literally "white beer", with double-s as a substitute for ß if needed) or sometimes "Weizen" ("wheat"). If you want to be all technical, "Hefeweizen" (yes "yeast wheat") is a more formal term.

Here in the North of Germany we call it Hefe.

 

[redrocker652002]

Sorry. I just couldnt spell it all out. Lol

 

[Brockness Monster]

My recipe is written out at 60% wheat and 40% Pils. I remember it being pretty good, but @VTMongoose's picture looks pretty fantastic so I might need to add some Munich. I'll start mine at 15% though.

 

[VTMongoose]

So given the grist I have how would you distribute the percentages?

Anywhere from 50-60% wheat according to your preference, 20% of Weyermann Light Munich (can be purchased from BrewHardware.com), and the rest Pilsner malt.

 

[dmtaylor]

Hefeweizen is all about the clove and banana flavors, striking a balance between the two. I'm a clove guy so I've been using less wheat malt ever since I discovered clove comes more from the barley than from the wheat. Maybe a 55/45 split for me, wheat/barley.

Lots of great info here (in German, so use Google Translate):

https://braumagazin.de/article/brewing-bavarian-weissbier-all-you-ever-wanted-to-know/

 

[redrocker652002]

Anywhere from 50-60% wheat according to your preference, 20% of Weyermann Light Munich (can be purchased from BrewHardware.com), and the rest Pilsner malt.

OK, cool. I might give that a go if it will give me a better beer. My preference though is more on the banana side of things.

The munich malt I found was Munich I which is about 6.2L

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

So, my next beer is going the be a Hefe

Do you reuse yeast?

If so, a fun next beer to follow on the same yeast would be a Roggenbier. It's basically the same concept as a hefeweizen but with rye instead of wheat.

I call mine a HefeRyezen

 

[redrocker652002]

Do you reuse yeast?

If so, a fun next beer to follow on the same yeast would be a Roggenbier. It's basically the same concept as a hefeweizen but with rye instead of wheat.

I call mine a HefeRyezen

Reusing yeast is something I have been trying sparingly. I have a couple of mason jars of 34/70 in the fridge that have been there for a few months. I know most are going to say it isn't any good any more, but I am going to get a pound or two of light dme and give it a go and see what happens. My end goal is to start doing test tubes in the freezer, that looks to be the way to go.

 

[redrocker652002]

This is my latest version based on what I am being told by you folks, thoughts?

https://share.brewfather.app/uoAicKi5ZJAis9

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Reusing yeast is something I have been trying sparingly. I have a couple of mason jars of 34/70 in the fridge that have been there for a few months. I know most are going to say it isn't any good any more, but I am going to get a pound or two of light dme and give it a go and see what happens. My end goal is to start doing test tubes in the freezer, that looks to be the way to go.

I don't do anything that fancy. I just tend to plan out 2-3 beers to use the same yeast. Brewday for beer #2 is kegging day for beer #1, so while I'm boiling beer #1 I keg beer #2, swirl the heck out of the fermenter when done and pour the trub into a sanitized jar (or two if it's a lager), and throw that in the fridge while cleaning/sanitizing/sterilizing the fermenter. Then as soon as the beer is brewed and cooled to pitching temp and in the fermenter, I pitch. Then repeat with brewday for beer #3 which is kegging day for beer #2.

I'm doing 10 gallon batches, use fairly high pitch rates, and prefer dry yeast (rather than dealing with starters). So for a typical gravity (1.050ish) ale or lager I'm using 3 packs of US-05 or 4 packs of W-34/70 for beer #1 in a series. I just came back to brewing after a 5 year hiatus, and it seems that packs of dry yeast have moved even further up in price than I remember lol... Then beers #2 and #3 I know I can increase gravity (and often color) and will have plenty of healthy yeast. For the cost of yeast, getting 30 gallons of beer rather than just 10 from a single yeast purchase helps reduce the impact of yeast costs...

So when I make a hefeweizen, the next beer in series is always a roggenbier. I often don't have a #3 behind that though... Not sure what else to do with that yeast.

 

[redrocker652002]

I don't do anything that fancy. I just tend to plan out 2-3 beers to use the same yeast. Brewday for beer #2 is kegging day for beer #1, so while I'm boiling beer #1 I keg beer #2, swirl the heck out of the fermenter when done and pour the trub into a sanitized jar (or two if it's a lager), and throw that in the fridge while cleaning/sanitizing/sterilizing the fermenter. Then as soon as the beer is brewed and cooled to pitching temp and in the fermenter, I pitch. Then repeat with brewday for beer #3 which is kegging day for beer #2.

I'm doing 10 gallon batches, use fairly high pitch rates, and prefer dry yeast (rather than dealing with starters). So for a typical gravity (1.050ish) ale or lager I'm using 3 packs of US-05 or 4 packs of W-34/70 for beer #1 in a series. I just came back to brewing after a 5 year hiatus, and it seems that packs of dry yeast have moved even further up in price than I remember lol... Then beers #2 and #3 I know I can increase gravity (and often color) and will have plenty of healthy yeast. For the cost of yeast, getting 30 gallons of beer rather than just 10 from a single yeast purchase helps reduce the impact of yeast costs...

So when I make a hefeweizen, the next beer in series is always a roggenbier. I often don't have a #3 behind that though... Not sure what else to do with that yeast.

That seems very high to me. I use 1 pack of US05 for a 5 gallon 1.050is beer most of the time and it works out well. The 34/70 I have been told to use 2 packs in lagers due to colder ferment temps. I need to find one or two more kegs that will hold pressure so I can do just as you do. Then I can store them in my new Kegerator once they are done fermenting and have them at the ready. My plan is to have a lagerish and an aleish beer going and have one of each at the ready. When the first two kick, I will rinse and repeat and have a nice supply chain going. Still working on my process and getting the new kegerator ready to go. I think that is going to be more of a winter project as I have to get new tubing and some connectors. Good stuff though, thank you for the input.

 

[VTMongoose]

This is my latest version based on what I am being told by you folks, thoughts?

https://share.brewfather.app/uoAicKi5ZJAis9

This should be fine, although your wheat being 62% of the malt bill, you will need to recirculate/lauter very slowly to prevent a stuck mash.

I would recommend adding a 10 minute mashout @ 168°F. This will improve your efficiency. It's basically a high alpha rest.

This recipe is a good starting point because from here you can play with lower/higher fermentation temperature, lower/higher munich, lower/higher wheat, water chemistry, etc. All of these things matter a lot in this style.

I also recommend ascorbic acid in the mash, 4 grams. These styles are very prone to oxidation. Everything cold-side after fermentation MUST be done under CO2, including bottling where you need to purge your bottles and everything. Otherwise your isoamyl acetate will be replaced with nonenal. Trust me.

 

[redrocker652002]

This should be fine, although your wheat being 62% of the malt bill, you will need to recirculate/lauter very slowly to prevent a stuck mash.

I would recommend adding a 10 minute mashout @ 168°F. This will improve your efficiency. It's basically a high alpha rest.

This recipe is a good starting point because from here you can play with lower/higher fermentation temperature, lower/higher munich, lower/higher wheat, water chemistry, etc. All of these things matter a lot in this style.

I also recommend ascorbic acid in the mash, 4 grams. These styles are very prone to oxidation. Everything cold-side after fermentation MUST be done under CO2, including bottling where you need to purge your bottles and everything. Otherwise your isoamyl acetate will be replaced with nonenal. Trust me.

Would you suggest I drop that and add to one of the other grains? I am at about 4.3 ABV and I know these are typically lower ABV beers but if I need to bump it up a bit I don't mind that either. My end game on this is simply to try a new style for me and to get a bit more banana than clove in the taste.

 

[Brockness Monster]

So when I make a hefeweizen, the next beer in series is always a roggenbier. I often don't have a #3 behind that though... Not sure what else to do with that yeast.

Just to put some ideas in your head.

Dampfbier - All barley version of a Weizen
Weizenbock - Stronger Weizen
Dunkleweizen - Darker toastier Weizen
Kuytbier - Dutch beer made with 50% oats, 33% barely and 17% wheat. usually done with a clean yeast strain, but could be fun with a Weizen strain.

 

[VTMongoose]

Would you suggest I drop that and add to one of the other grains? I am at about 4.3 ABV and I know these are typically lower ABV beers but if I need to bump it up a bit I don't mind that either. My end game on this is simply to try a new style for me and to get a bit more banana than clove in the taste.

Yes, I would swap some of the wheat for pils.


More gravity = more esters, so if you want banana, I would shoot for more like 5.3%, not 4.3%.

 

[redrocker652002]

https://share.brewfather.app/uoAicKi5ZJAis9

So more like this? Also, I see there is a dry yeast version W-68 that has been talked about on another thread. I am thinking of going with that instead. I just don't trust myself with liquid yeast, I have not had very good luck with it. Thoughts?

 

[VTMongoose]

https://share.brewfather.app/uoAicKi5ZJAis9

So more like this? Also, I see there is a dry yeast version W-68 that has been talked about on another thread. I am thinking of going with that instead. I just don't trust myself with liquid yeast, I have not had very good luck with it. Thoughts?

Your new recipe has wheat at only 45% of the grist. Traditionally it's between 50 and as high as 70% but more typically about 60%.

If you found that thread then you already know how I feel about Fermentis' new W-68 product.

Suffice to say I have not bought any commercial Hefeweizen imported or otherwise since I started brewing with their yeast, and my current process. I used to buy Tucher by the case before that. My house Hefeweizen has placed 1st in wheat beers at a BJCP competition. At this point I'm not even entering it. I just drink it. I think my last keg only lasted 3 weeks before it was empty. It's alarming how good and how drinkable this style of beer can be once you get it totally dialed in. It's easy to see why it's still consumed in such massive quantities in Germany, where they actually know how to brew it.

 

[monkeymath]

It's easy to see why it's still consumed in such massive quantities in Germany, where they actually know how to brew it.

Afaik it's actually fallen out of consumers' favour to a degree that several well-established Weißbier breweries (Schneider, Erdinger, ...) have started making lagers, mostly Helles, which has significantly risen in popularity outside of Bavaria over the last few years. (Don't ask me why, I'm a pils guy.)
Schneider's Helles (or "Landbier", as they call it) is actually really good, by the way.

 

[1Pivoman]

I got into brewing back in th late 90’s specifically to make the beer I loved most in Germany, Hefe Weizen. I am still disappointed at the impact pasteurization has on imported beer, especially Weizens.
My last few batches are 55% wheat with the rest a split between pils and light Munich.
Don’t overlook great Weizen yeasts like WLP-380 Hefe Weizen IV and WLP-351 Bavarian Weizen. Both are outstanding and give authentic profiles.

 

[VTMongoose]

I got into brewing back in th late 90’s specifically to make the beer I loved most in Germany, Hefe Weizen. I am still disappointed at the impact pasteurization has on imported beer, especially Weizens.
My last few batches are 55% wheat with the rest a split between pils and light Munich.
Don’t overlook great Weizen yeasts like WLP-380 Hefe Weizen IV and WLP-351 Bavarian Weizen. Both are outstanding and give authentic profiles.

I've made many great wheats with WLP380 although I don't like how poor it attenuates compared to Weihenstephan 68. I have always been afraid to try WLP351 because my understanding is it's very tart/acidic. What do you like about that strain?