New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[ihavenonickname]

Edit: my question is just does “dip hopping” avoid hop creep or embrace it?

I mostly like to take the approach of “avoiding” hop creep by dry hopping colder and short, using ALDC, and always keeping cold. This certainly helps keep the FG high. If I want to use something in the mid ferment I use incognito or spectrum which also works well.

Is there any way to use pellets mid fermentation and still avoid hop creep and Keep the FG/body big? what about dip hopping? Is a short contact with hot wort enough to kill the enzymes to avoid hop creep?

 

[Dgallo]

@Dgallo are you getting these great results soft crashing and adding dry hops to fermenter? (On top of yeast, no transfer, No agitation?)

I’ve done a lot of transferring to DH keg and agitating and like those results but it would be nice to simplify a bit.

I normally do the same as you, I have a second modified fermonster that I close transfer into that is purged and pre loaded with hops.

That said, I def think it’s doable in the primary but I think you would have to let the beer warm up a bit after crashing, say, 62*f so that there is some activity so the hops don’t sink as quickly. Obviously you can plenty want to agitate in primary as the agitation would be counterproductive.

 

[TwitchellBrew]

I got a beer in the fermenter now going with Imperial Juice. I went with 1 oz Idaho-7 at 5 min, 2 oz Idaho-7 and 2 oz Mosaic in the Whirlpool. I was planning on Mosaic, El Dorado and BRU-1 in the dry hop (but swapping in some Idaho-7 is not a bad idea either).

Nice! I honestly have never used BRU-1 but suggested the Idaho 7 in the dry hop because it’s high oil will help the haze given that mosaic is not a great haze producer.

 

[Dgallo]

Nice! I honestly have never used BRU-1 but suggested the Idaho 7 in the dry hop because it’s high oil will help the haze given that mosaic is not a great haze producer.

oil content isn’t the contributor of haze from hops, Polyphenol content is. Also, Idaho 7 and mosaic have the nearly identical total oil content and both hops are high in the survivable chart, Idaho 7 does have more survivables though.

That said with recipe development and proper dryhop process, there should be no issue at all producing a beer with stable haze

 

[agentbud]

Has anyone tried the Abstrax / Omni hop extracts yet? Any thoughts?

https://www.morebeer.com/search?search=abstrax

 

[Dgallo]

Has anyone tried the Abstrax / Omni hop extracts yet? Any thoughts?

https://www.morebeer.com/search?search=abstrax

Haven’t but that’s seems on the expensive side. 1ml = 1 oz of t90

 

[ihavenonickname]

I might give it a go. Only 12 bucks for 2 applications into a 5g keg. I had a terp ipa that was really interesting (blast of cannibis) at the Firestone Invitational.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Has anyone tried the Abstrax / Omni hop extracts yet? Any thoughts?

I am curious. Personally, I think the price point looks great if they actually provide a solid hop punch. 5.5 oz of hops means about 11 oz of beer wasted.

I made a 5 gallon batch of hop water using the Hopzoil Majik oils. Those come in a 1ml vial that sell for around $10 and are supposed to be enough for a 5 gallon batch of beer. The flavors in my hop water were very light. Also, the version I used did not really taste "hoppy". It was more like a few drops of a citrus and fruit extract.

 

[Dgallo]

I might give it a go. Only 12 bucks for 2 applications into a 5g keg. I had a terp ipa that was really interesting (blast of cannibis) at the Firestone Invitational.

Am I missing something by any chance? It’s $16 dollars for the equivalent of 5oz of t90?

I understand we all have different hoping rates but for me I’m thinking you would need to use roughly 4-5ml of the product for dryhoping one beer.

 

[Dgallo]

I am curious. Personally, I think the price point looks great if they actually provide a solid hop punch. 5.5 oz of hops means about 11 oz of beer wasted.

I will say I didn’t put in account loss. I feel like I’ve been so far removed from thinking about it because I know I’m going to need 6 gallons in fv to yelled 5 in the end

 

[ihavenonickname]

I was Looking at the $12 cannabis one (brewgas)

“Dosage
Add 2.5 mL per 5-gallon batch for a moderate dank impact. Adjust to taste.”

Edit: it looks like the quantum series is hop derived and they recommend more, like you said.

 

[Dgallo]

I was Looking at the $12 cannabis one (brewgas)

“Dosage
Add 2.5 mL per 5-gallon batch for a moderate dank impact. Adjust to taste.”

Edit: it looks like the quantum series is hop derived and they recommend more, like you said.

Yeah my bad man. I only thought there was that one citra one. The cannabis terps look cool. I am planning a modern west coast with Columbus, Simcoe, and Mosiac and the blackberry kush seems like it could be pretty cool

 

[CascadesBrewer]

Am I missing something by any chance? It’s $16 dollars for the equivalent of 5oz of t90?

It would depend if you just get the same results as pellets, or if you get superior results. Maybe a real boost of juicy hop flavors without the risks of astringency or grassy flavors? Maybe you can push above the diminishing returns of pellets? I have not done much with hop extracts, mostly because they are always much more expensive than a $18 lb bag of pellets. I would be willing to throw an extra $8, or $16 at a NEIPA if they offered good results.

 

[Ulisses4677]

My Most recent batch. Needs another day to cold crash but this is amazing. Wyeast 1272 is a game changer for me. I used citra motueka Nectaron 60/20/20
Og 1084
Fg 1018
Grain bill:
70% pilsner
30% mixeture of malted and flaked oats.

 

[ihavenonickname]

View attachment 857998
My Most recent batch. Needs another day to cold crash but this is amazing. Wyeast 1272 is a game changer for me. I used citra motueka Nectaron 60/20/20
Og 1084
Fg 1018
Grain bill:
70% pilsner
30% mixeture of malted and flaked oats

It’s beautiful. Tell us more. Hot side ibus? WP rate? Dry hop rate and method?

 

[wepeeler]

Brewed up a neipa for a comp in 4 weeks. Went Citra/Strata Coastal Haze. 6.5oz Whirlpool and a 9oz Dry Hop 48 hours before kegging. She better be juicy!

 

[Ulisses4677]

It’s beautiful. Tell us more. Hot side ibus? WP rate? Dry hop rate and method?

Ctz hot side for 15 ibus and another 15 to 20 in whirlpool. I like to whirlpool around 180f for 30 min, I did 6 oz of citra. I dry hopped for 5 days around 60f 60% citra/20% motueka/ 20% nectaron.

 

[Ulisses4677]

I ferment and dry hop in kegs. I like to do some natural carbonation so I spund close to terminal gravity then transfer to a a dry hop keg.

 

[LumberZach]

My Most recent batch. Needs another day to cold crash but this is amazing. Wyeast 1272 is a game changer for me.

What about 1272 makes it a game changer? I know it's the equivalent to what Fidens uses, but what about it makes it great?

 

[Dgallo]

What about 1272 makes it a game changer? I know it's the equivalent to what Fidens uses, but what about it makes it great?

I do know that 1272 has a bigger ph drop from fermentation, so when you dryhop at higher rates (heavy dryhoping increases ph) your able to have your final ph land in a range that produces a smoother beer and come across the palette brighter and cleaner.

I do post dryhoping ph adjustments when needed, so I personally haven’t seen any real benefits to 1272, but if your not doing this, using this yeast should make some impact. Again that will depend on your hoping rate

 

[Dgallo]

Just tapped my latest hazy View attachment 855456

Name: Sometimes maybe good, sometimes maybe Chit!

Grains
66% - proximity 2 row
30% - chit malt
4% - honey malt

Yeast: London Ale 3

OG: 1.079
FG: 1.020

Abv: 7.8%

Hops:
15 ibus from strata

Whirlpool @ 165*f
Freestyle Strata - 4 oz
Freestyle Citra t90 - 3 oz

Dryhop
Citra lupomax - 3 oz
freestyle Nelson 2 oz
Freestyle Peacherine - 9 oz

Water:
Ca: 91
Mg: 12
NaCl: 71
So4: 103
Cl: 175

Little update on this beer. It’s about 1.5 months old now. Entered it in a comp this weekend and it took bronze, with a 34. Def not a score that I’m pumped about. Full Score sheets haven’t come out yet but I’ll post them when they do.

 

[Ulisses4677]

I do know that 1272 has a bigger ph drop from fermentation, so when you dryhop at higher rates (heavy dryhoping increases ph) your able to have your final ph land in a range that produces a smoother beer and come across the palette brighter and cleaner.

I do post dryhoping ph adjustments when needed, so I personally haven’t seen any real benefits to 1272, but if you’re not doing this, using this yeast should make some impact. Again that will depend on your hoping rate

That’s exactly what I was going to say. The mouthfeel is nice soft and velvety. My ph going into the fermenter was 5.0

 

[wepeeler]

Little update on this beer. It’s about 1.5 months old now. Entered it in a comp this weekend and it took bronze, with a 34. Def not a score that I’m pumped about. Full Score sheets haven’t come out yet but I’ll post them when they do.

How long did it sit after packaging for the comp? There's a 2 week waiting period for the next comp I'm entering. Not stoked about that at all...

 

[Dgallo]

How long did it sit after packaging for the comp? There's a 2 week waiting period for the next comp I'm entering. Not stoked about that at all...

Packaged the 17th of aug. delivered the 21st(needed to be in by 8/22) comp was 9/14. So almost a month out of my hands

 

[wepeeler]

Packaged the 17th of aug. delivered the 21st(needed to be in by 8/22) comp was 9/14. So almost a month out of my hands

Damn. That's a bummer. Shouldn't be like that, imo.

 

[secretlevel]

Packaged the 17th of aug. delivered the 21st(needed to be in by 8/22) comp was 9/14. So almost a month out of my hands

That's poor organization for a comp, over 3 weeks to sort the bottles and get ready for a comp is a little intense. I wonder if the bottles were even refrigerated for that period.

 

[BrewMan13]

Little update on this beer. It’s about 1.5 months old now. Entered it in a comp this weekend and it took bronze, with a 34. Def not a score that I’m pumped about. Full Score sheets haven’t come out yet but I’ll post them when they do.

If you haven't checked since this post, the score sheets have been posted. Very minimal comments; 1 of mine was barely legible. My non-medaling 35 oatmeal stout had largely positive notes.

 

[Dgallo]

Little update on this beer. It’s about 1.5 months old now. Entered it in a comp this weekend and it took bronze, with a 34. Def not a score that I’m pumped about. Full Score sheets haven’t come out yet but I’ll post them when they do.

Score sheets as promised. Some make sense, like I do know it will drink lighter as I raise my co2 to 2.8 vols prior to bottling for comps expecting to lose some when filling (must not of knocked enough out) but don’t understand why both judges where looking for malt character in the beer. Said they didn’t get why but one mentioned a touch of sweetness which is the malt character. Just seems like the judges and myself interpret the style differently which isn’t the first time

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Being someone lucky enough to drink this beer, I'll say I agree with you that the sweetness is the malt flavor. Looks like they were being pretty stingy with points, 34 and a bronze so who knows. One judge says the hops seem 1 dimensional, I couldn't disagree more, and knowing the hops you put in this beer, that comment surprised me. I know I enjoyed this beer a lot.. So yeah, ya never know what you're gonna get from the judges.. I've never brewed with chit, maybe the one judges comment about more oats or wheat had something to do with that, but again it didn't seem to effect my palate in any negative way.

 

[aaronm13]

Score sheets as promised. Some make sense, like I do know it will drink lighter as I raise my co2 to 2.8 vols prior to bottling for comps expecting to lose some when filling (must not of knocked enough out) but don’t understand why both judges where cooling for malt character in the beer. Said they didn’t get why but one mentioned a touch of sweetness which is the malt character. Just seems like the judges and myself interpret the style differently which isn’t the first time View attachment 858081View attachment 858082

The BJCP guidelines for 21C Hazy IPA are a joke and do not line up with what we would class as a classic example. Don't know how they got this so wrong. I just got my BJCP qualification a few weeks ago and this really annoyed me while training and studying.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Classic example = heady topper.

Not what I aim for with this style, just saying.

 

[aaronm13]

Classic example = heady topper.

Not what I aim for with this style, just saying.

Exactly. That's my point with the BJCP. I'm aiming for Other Half, Fidens, Verdant. These are peak examples of this style.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Exactly. That's my point with the BJCP. I'm aiming for Other Half, Fidens, Verdant. These are peak examples of this style.

Yes, I agree with you on that. I aim for the same as you.

 

[ihavenonickname]

Anyone have a calculator to help predict how much citric acid (solid) or lactic acid to add with dry hops? Or during whirpool for that matter. My experience from trial and measure is 3-4 ml lactic acid drop my kettle (7gal wort) from 5.2 to 5.0. But that’s about all I have to go off. Anyone else have data points of their experience?

 

[Dgallo]

Anyone have a calculator to help predict how much citric acid (solid) or lactic acid to add with dry hops? Or during whirpool for that matter. My experience from trial and measure is 3-4 ml lactic acid drop my kettle (7gal wort) from 5.2 to 5.0. But that’s about all I have to go off. Anyone else have data points of their experience?

It’s going to be hard since everyone is going to have a different buffer based on their water, grain bill, and amount of hops. The best way to figure this out is to scale it. Degas a beer that is your typical grainbil/hop rate. Then measure ph. Buy your self a dropper or syringe that goes to tenths of a ml. Start by adding 1/10 ml and see what ph drop you get(trying to see how much you need to drop the ph of the pint by 0.1. Once yo find that try a few beers targeting 4.3,4.4, and 4.5 and see which you think drinks the best. Then you’ll scale up to a full keg

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Out of curiosity, is lactic preferred for later corrections? I adjust my ph with 85% phosphoric acid, I assume I could use this to adjust fermenter ph as well... honestly I go about adjusting my water a completely different way, I don't rely on spread sheets or water calculators. I use a salifert kit to measure my alkalinity, I do have a ward report (private well), I add phosphoric acid until I get my alkalinity/hardness CaCO³ under 30ppm, I know that this takes approximately .1ml to .2ml of acid per gallon of water for me to go from 98ppm to 25ish ppm and my mash ph usually comes in between 5.2 and 5.3 so in my mind, if I'm using .2ml per gallon, I wonder if for scaling purposes this acid is to strong to try to adjust in a pint with the dropper I have, though it is graduated to hundreds of a ml. Maybe I'd be better off using lactic acid for this particular purpose. I might be getting a little off topic for this thread so I apologize for that.

 

[Greg Morris]

Edit: my question is just does “dip hopping” avoid hop creep or embrace it?

I mostly like to take the approach of “avoiding” hop creep by dry hopping colder and short, using ALDC, and always keeping cold. This certainly helps keep the FG high. If I want to use something in the mid ferment I use incognito or spectrum which also works well.

Is there any way to use pellets mid fermentation and still avoid hop creep and Keep the FG/body big? what about dip hopping? Is a short contact with hot wort enough to kill the enzymes to avoid hop creep?

Don't worry about hop creep. Pick hops that don't promote it for dry hopping. Cascade and Idaho 7 are notorious hop creepers. But really who cares. If you dry hop with those just carbonate to less CO2 volumes and make sure your FG is high enough to compensate.

 

[Greg Morris]

Out of curiosity, is lactic preferred for later corrections? I adjust my ph with 85% phosphoric acid, I assume I could use this to adjust fermenter ph as well... honestly I go about adjusting my water a completely different way, I don't rely on spread sheets or water calculators. I use a salifert kit to measure my alkalinity, I do have a ward report (private well), I add phosphoric acid until I get my alkalinity/hardness CaCO³ under 30ppm, I know that this takes approximately .1ml to .2ml of acid per gallon of water for me to go from 98ppm to 25ish ppm and my mash ph usually comes in between 5.2 and 5.3 so in my mind, if I'm using .2ml per gallon, I wonder if for scaling purposes this acid is to strong to try to adjust in a pint with the dropper I have, though it is graduated to hundreds of a ml. Maybe I'd be better off using lactic acid for this particular purpose. I might be getting a little off topic for this thread so I apologize for that.

We use 88% lactic acid. Know that water absorbs carbon after RO processing or atmospheric absorbtion with regular water. Your strike/HLT water will be around 5.8-5.9ph. Most light malts will make your ph for mash within the range without doing anything to the water. Depending on style you need to adjust or not. However it's best to take a sample of ph from fermenter before fermentation or at whirlpool to identify whether or not further treatment is needed, and then go from there. Target 4.95-5.15ph depending on style into your fermenter.

 

[Dgallo]

Don't worry about hop creep. Pick hops that don't promote it for dry hopping. Cascade and Idaho 7 are notorious hop creepers. But really who cares. If you dry hop with those just carbonate to less CO2 volumes and make sure your FG is high enough to compensate.

You probably want to worry about hopcreep….. reformation of VDK, creation of hop burn, changing of mouthfeel, stripping of hop compounds to just mention a few

 

[Dgallo]

Out of curiosity, is lactic preferred for later corrections? I adjust my ph with 85% phosphoric acid, I assume I could use this to adjust fermenter ph as well... honestly I go about adjusting my water a completely different way, I don't rely on spread sheets or water calculators. I use a salifert kit to measure my alkalinity, I do have a ward report (private well), I add phosphoric acid until I get my alkalinity/hardness CaCO³ under 30ppm, I know that this takes approximately .1ml to .2ml of acid per gallon of water for me to go from 98ppm to 25ish ppm and my mash ph usually comes in between 5.2 and 5.3 so in my mind, if I'm using .2ml per gallon, I wonder if for scaling purposes this acid is to strong to try to adjust in a pint with the dropper I have, though it is graduated to hundreds of a ml. Maybe I'd be better off using lactic acid for this particular purpose. I might be getting a little off topic for this thread so I apologize for that.

I think it’s preference, but lactic acid tends to be used more on the hb scale due to strength and scale. Phosphoric would be better as it’s tasteless, however I use lactic as it’s what I have on hand and still trying to work through the enormous bottle I bought 5 years ago lol