New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[braindead]

My latest attempt
Citra, Bru1, Sabro all Lupo

 

[midegrou]

I've only had this once with LA3 and trying to replicate it but have no idea how. What yeast did you use, which nutrition and what temps?

Sorry I missed this! Embarrassingly, I think I might have a bit of a diacetyl issue as the "melon" has evolved very strongly toward "butterscotch" after a few weeks in the keg. I think this mistake is likely a product of my still largely unrefined palate.

I actually used A38 in this batch (first time ever) and it absolutely blasted through over a couple of days. The FG was stable for 2-3 days by day 6 so I transferred to the DH keg (I do one gallon batches, so I thought this might be a reasonable timeline). In retrospect, I perhaps should have done a rest and given it more time - I was just super eager to try it out.

 

[CrookedElbowBrewing]

What temp do you have your DH keg before going into your keezer/kegerator?
You might have experienced some hop creep from the hop enzymes creating more fermentable sugars for the yeast, kicking off additional Fermentation and thus more diacetyl.
If you’re dry hopping you either need to make sure you have enough time for a diacetyl rest if you’re at ferm temps or do a soft crash to below your yeast’s preferred temp range. For ale yeasts I usually soft crash at 54-56F for 24hr for my DDH at the end of fermentation and then cold crash at 32F for a week. My last DH is in the keg where I bring the temp up to 54-56F for 24hrs and then it goes into the keezer to carb.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Sorry I missed this! Embarrassingly, I think I might have a bit of a diacetyl issue as the "melon" has evolved very strongly toward "butterscotch" after a few weeks in the keg. I think this mistake is likely a product of my still largely unrefined palate.

I actually used A38 in this batch (first time ever) and it absolutely blasted through over a couple of days. The FG was stable for 2-3 days by day 6 so I transferred to the DH keg (I do one gallon batches, so I thought this might be a reasonable timeline). In retrospect, I perhaps should have done a rest and given it more time - I was just super eager to try it out.

Being a new home brewer for just over a year (January 2020) myself, Ive always been more conservative prior to soft crashing before DHing. I typically take my hydro reading at about 7days despite most visual activity showing me its done at about 5-6days (depending on yeast). I like to wait an additional day after Ive seen no visual sign of fermentation prior to hydrometer sample. Then I wait (at about 71-72 degrees) until day 9-10 (depending on my work/personal schedule really) typically before soft crashing to 50 for 36hrs and then I bounce it back up to 58-60 for DHing. I am typically kegging at 14 +/- 1-2 days on average with these NEIPAs (A24 yeast is my favorite thus far). I am uber paranoid that its "not" finished in the primary fermentation so thats why I wait a little longer and don't push it time wise. So IMHO, no need to rush this since you've already invested a lot of time and $$ on the initial brew day. Ive now brewed about 36 beers since I started and I can not gauge by my hydrometer sample gravity and taste if I want to adjust the timeline overall. Like you, my palate is still "in training" though.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

My latest attempt
Citra, Bru1, Sabro all LupoView attachment 726761

Nice yellowish color? grain bill?

 

[R.A.I.D]

http://scottjanish.com/dry-hop-best...s-a-guide-for-process-and-recipe-development/
This is the procedure for dry hopping at Sapwood:

Sapwood’s Burping Procedure (20 Barrel Fermenters):
Columbia, MD
• One to 2 days before dry hopping, drop the tank to 56°F
(13°C), harvest the yeast, and drop the remaining yeast.
• Keeping the tank at 56°F (13°C), dry hop with ~4.4 pounds
per barrel for most IPAs and DIPAs through the dry hop
doser (more on this setup below), and give the hops 4–8 h
to saturate in the beer.
• After 4–8 h of dry hop contact time, we burp through the
bottom of the cone at 30 PSI for approximately 1 min
(purging the burp setup with CO2 prior to opening the
valve to the tank). Generally, the head pressure is around
10 PSI at this point and slowly creeps up to 15 PSI with
each consecutive burp.
• Once each day for 3 days, we burp the tank again from
the bottom of the tank at 30 PSI for approximately 1 min
or until the tank gets back up to 15 PSI.
• After 3 days of dry hopping, we crash the tank 5°F per day
and drop hops from the bottom of the cone until reaching
35°F (1.6°C).
• If we are dry hopping in multiple stages, after the first
3 days of dry hopping and burps we will drop the tank to
remove as much of the first dose as possible and then re-
peat our dry hop procedure before moving to the cold-
crashing stage.

He also writes:

Size matters when it comes to the size of the tank and extrac-
tion; the studies mentioned above were done in small beer-like
solutions that experienced fast dry hop extraction times. It is
likely that the larger the vessel, the slower the extraction, as one
expert suggests that it might take 3–5 days to get extraction on a
500 barrel tank and just a day on the homebrew scale (4). Dry
hopping is entirely dependent on local diffusion speeds. Anything
that speeds up diffusion (stirring, temperature, etc.) will speed up
extraction rates, and all those things are generally slower as you
scale up tank size. There will be less liquid in direct contact with
hop material, and it is harder to move that liquid around.

At Sapwood they use 20 barrel/2400 L fermenter. So at homebrew scale we might get similar results faster if we shake the dry hop container once a day.

So we might end up with 56F/13C in 1-3 days.

 

[beervoid]

In my experience the colder and shorter dryhopping only works with good quality hops.
I've had good to poor results depending on hop quality. Dry hopping warmer will extract more from lesser quality hops.

 

[braindead]

Nice yellowish color? grain bill?

Low Colour Golden Promise®™ (Simpsons) 65.8%
Flaked Oats 13.2%
Flaked Wheat 13.2%
Carapils 5%
Rice Hulls 2.9%

 

[midegrou]

What temp do you have your DH keg before going into your keezer/kegerator?
You might have experienced some hop creep from the hop enzymes creating more fermentable sugars for the yeast, kicking off additional Fermentation and thus more diacetyl.
If you’re dry hopping you either need to make sure you have enough time for a diacetyl rest if you’re at ferm temps or do a soft crash to below your yeast’s preferred temp range. For ale yeasts I usually soft crash at 54-56F for 24hr for my DDH at the end of fermentation and then cold crash at 32F for a week. My last DH is in the keg where I bring the temp up to 54-56F for 24hrs and then it goes into the keezer to carb.

I add about 8 psi and then crash to 50F for about 24 hours before transferring to the DH keg. I then DH at 50F (adding about 4 psi) for 24-48 hours.

It's worked pretty well for me at rates of 3oz/gallon...until these past few batches. I think I probably just need to let it sit at terminal an additional few days.

In general, I've found these one-gallon batches are very finicky and small "mistakes" can dramatically affect the end product. One example is ensuring that I adjust my water profile based on the batch size...but also considering pH effects based on the mash volume (since my mash water is nearly 3X my batch size). Took a little while to get that dialed in.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

@HopsAreGood I checked my gravity on the batch I fermented with a38 and us05 7 days and down to 1.016 from 1.070 and appears to be done, usually I overbuild my starters and save some for next time but I wasnt able to do that on this batch. I have a stainless conical and was curious if I could harvest this yeast or if I should not being that it is 2 strains and just start with at fresh pack of each for next brew.

 

[HopsAreGood]

@HopsAreGood I checked my gravity on the batch I fermented with a38 and us05 7 days and down to 1.016 from 1.070 and appears to be done, usually I overbuild my starters and save some for next time but I wasnt able to do that on this batch. I have a stainless conical and was curious if I could harvest this yeast or if I should not being that it is 2 strains and just start with at fresh pack of each for next brew.

You definitely could harvest it but because it is a blend one of them will become quite dominant over time. I honestly don’t have a lot of experience harvesting yeast, but I’m sure many of the other people on here do. Whenever I blend or mix different yeasts it’s just a one and done thing.

 

[R.A.I.D]

Any suggestions for changes to this grain bill (or other ideas) that will make my neipa just a bit more dry while still using just S-33?

Maris Otter 68%
Wheat malt 14%
Chit malt 4%
Oat malt 4%
Honig malt 4%
Sugar 7%

S-33 has low attenuation. Like 68 pct. But I managed to get from 1077 oc to 1019 oc by mashing low at 144F/62C and adding 7 pct table sugar to the grain bill.
I would like to hit 1013 oc.

S-33 leaves behind more glucose/maltose and maltotriose than say S-04. But consumes more tetraode and dextrin.

 

[Dgallo]

Any suggestions for changes to this grain bill (or other ideas) that will make my neipa just a bit more dry while still using just S-33?

Maris Otter 68%
Wheat malt 14%
Chit malt 4%
Oat malt 4%
Honig malt 4%
Sugar 7%

S-33 has low attenuation. Like 68 pct. But I managed to get from 1077 oc to 1019 oc by mashing low at 144F/62C and adding 7 pct table sugar to the grain bill.
I would like to hit 1013 oc.

I’d personally would either use an even split with either chit/oats or chit/wheat. That way you’ll get a feel for what chit brings to the table.

I also would remove the dextrose and make up for it with base malt. Unless it’s a tipa, it seems counter productive for the body

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Any suggestions for changes to this grain bill (or other ideas) that will make my neipa just a bit more dry while still using just S-33?

Maris Otter 68%
Wheat malt 14%
Chit malt 4%
Oat malt 4%
Honig malt 4%
Sugar 7%

S-33 has low attenuation. Like 68 pct. But I managed to get from 1077 oc to 1019 oc by mashing low at 144F/62C and adding 7 pct table sugar to the grain bill.
I would like to hit 1013 oc.

S-33 leaves behind more glucose/maltose and maltotriose than say S-04. But consumes more tetraode and dextrin.

Just an idea, as I know you want to just use S-33, but have you considered pitching a a small amount of a clean yeast like S-05 with this to help with attenuation? Never used S-33 nor have I mixed dry yeasts before either. Just a thought.

 

[HopsAreGood]

Just an idea, as I know you want to just use S-33, but have you considered pitching a a small amount of a clean yeast like S-05 with this to help with attenuation? Never used S-33 nor have I mixed dry yeasts before either. Just a thought.

This is definitely a good option. Try something like 80/20 or whatever you think will work best. You should be able to keep most of the S-33 character but benefit from the additional attenuation from the US-05. At the very least you’ll have a fun experiment.

 

[CrookedElbowBrewing]

Since we’re talking NEIPA I just brewed one Sunday. For a 5G batch I used 6oz ID7 for flame out/whirlpool. I came across some Nectaron hops that I want to pair with Nelson for the dry hops. I might go with some Vic Secret as well. Anyone try the Nectaron hops yet? I’ve read that Nelson can overpower it so I’m going to use a higher % Nectaron for the DH.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Since we’re talking NEIPA I just brewed one Sunday. For a 5G batch I used 6oz ID7 for flame out/whirlpool. I came across some Nectaron hops that I want to pair with Nelson for the dry hops. I might go with some Vic Secret as well. Anyone try the Nectaron hops yet? I’ve read that Nelson can overpower it so I’m going to use a higher % Nectaron for the DH.

Depending on the year of I7, you should get a nice orange forward beer pre-dryhop as is my experience with I7. I7 CAN bring some black tea/earthy qualities too IMO. Nelson will DEFINITELY overpower nectaron IMHO, so I would go 2 or 3:1 Nectaron:Nelson. Ive brewed twice with nectaron, the first was moutere/nectaron combo all the way through with emphasis on moutere on hot side and nectaron on cold side (this was a tropical bomb with nice/restrained NZ diesel/spice. then I did a moutere/I7/Nectaron combo. This had more earthy and NZ diesel than I remember the first having, I7 was ONLY used in the WP on this one. So if you only used I7 in the WP and are planning on Nectaron/Nelson in the DH, it will definitely have a NZ diesel presence. Personally, if you are wanting to go this route, I would add some citra to the DH as well to help brighten it up and help add/emphasize the peach/tropicalness that nectaron brings and the passionfruit that nelson can bring to the table so that the NZ diesel/spice doesn't steal the show. Don't know what you are going for though. If you have nectaron and nelson as 2020, Nelson is pretty damn potent. So perhaps 2.5:1:1 of nectaron, citra, nelson ratios for DH might strike a nice balance and have a cool tropical/peach vibe with the NZ diesel that some love and some hate lol. Keep us posted!

EDIT: I personally LOVE nectaron as it seems to strike a nice balance between tropical/peach fruitiness with a restrained NZ diesel (but its definitely present). Its not as potent in the NZ diesel category as Nelson which is why I was thinking Citra would help to pull the fruitiness of these two NZ hops out more.

 

[CrookedElbowBrewing]

Thanks for the input. I have some Citra cryo that I can incorporate into the mix!

 

[R.A.I.D]

Just an idea, as I know you want to just use S-33, but have you considered pitching a a small amount of a clean yeast like S-05 with this to help with attenuation?

I am trying to maximize the hop aroma. I prefer S-33 because it leaves intense hop aroma behind in the beer.

I have tried mixing S-33 with S-04 to get both aroma and attenuation (1.5pkg:0.5pkg). But I feel like S-04 binds to the hop aroma that S-33 leaves behind. So I will go back to just S-33 again.

I prefer wheat malt to oat in my neipa. One grain bill could be a mix of just pale and wheat. Any ratio between 20 and 50 % wheat.
50-80% pale malt
20-50% wheat malt

But I don't know if that would ferment out more than the other one:
Maris Otter 68%
Wheat malt 14%
Chit malt 4%
Oat malt 4%
Honig malt 4%
Sugar 7%

 

[Frieds]

I’d personally would either use an even split with either chit/oats or chit/wheat. That way you’ll get a feel for what chit brings to the table.

I also would remove the dextrose and make up for it with base malt. Unless it’s a tipa, it seems counter productive for the body

I Remember having a conversation with you a few months back where you suggested that DME could replace dextrose and still add some body whilst also adding abv. What’s the ball park figure in regards to the percentage of DME In the grist if you were trying to get into TIPA territory?

 

[TBA]

Never tried mixing yeasts but very interested. Does it matter when you add the second yeast that will boast conversion? I was thinking of starting with S-33 then at 50-75% attenuation pitch some US05 to finish it off. The US05 would not get a chance to grow during the lag phase so I don’t know how much to add. I could add fresh or some slurry. What have people tried?

 

[Dgallo]

I Remember having a conversation with you a few months back where you suggested that DME could replace dextrose and still add some body whilst also adding abv. What’s the ball park figure in regards to the percentage of DME In the grist if you were trying to get into TIPA territory?

What you’ll need really depends on how big of a beer you can get with grain alone on your system. Ive brewed a few no boil NEIPAS were ive only used dme for most if the base grain and steeped a little 2row and wheat/oats. Those beers came out fine. So I’d say you can easily use however much you need to hit your target og. For a TIPA I still would use about 3-5% dextrose though. There will be plenty of body from the size of the grainbill and the abv, so the dextrose will help the drinkability and not make it come across so heavy

 

[CrookedElbowBrewing]

One pound DME into 1G will give you 45 gravity points. (LDME will be less) For a 5G batch it’ll bump you up 9 pts. Figure out what your ABV goal is and add accordingly. 9 points into 5G should bump you up about 1.2% ABV
I’ve been brewing at the max grain capacity in my system for a while and I typically add 1# LDME to boost my gravity a bit if I want a bigger beer.

 

[HopsAreGood]

You can also use brewers crystals which are essentially the same thing as DME except have no color and no flavor. Made from corn I believe. I’ve used them a few times and always had good results boosting the alcohol but still keeping the mouthfeel, color, and flavor unaffected. I’ve always use them in equal amounts to DME meaning if I wanted to add 1 pound of DME, I would just add 1 pound of brewers crystals instead.

https://www.northernbrewer.com/products/brewers-crystals-1-lb

 

[Dgallo]

One pound DME into 1G will give you 45 gravity points. (LDME will be less) For a 5G batch it’ll bump you up 9 pts. Figure out what your ABV goal is and add accordingly. 9 points into 5G should bump you up about 1.2% ABV
I’ve been brewing at the max grain capacity in my system for a while and I typically add 1# LDME to boost my gravity a bit if I want a bigger beer.

Its technically a solution of dme and water at a Gallon volume will gain 45 points. Now for estimating points per batch, It’s going to be dependent on the volume. So assuming 9 points for a 5 gallon batch is a bit high. 7 points is more realistic with this style since you’ll need a minimum of 5.75 g in the fermenter to yield a clean 5 gallons of beer after the dryhop load

 

[Dgallo]

You can also use brewers crystals which are essentially the same thing as DME except have no color and no flavor. Made from corn I believe. I’ve used them a few times and always had good results boosting the alcohol but still keeping the mouthfeel, color, and flavor unaffected. I’ve always use them in equal amounts to DME meaning if I wanted to add 1 pound of DME, I would just add 1 pound of brewers crystals instead.

https://www.northernbrewer.com/products/brewers-crystals-1-lb

@Frieds this will work too. I just personally use dme

 

[braindead]

Hows people getting along with Strata?
I pulled a ton of unwanted Onion/Garlic the 1st time.
Want to try again but without that.

 

[aaronm13]

Hows people getting along with Strata?
I pulled a ton of unwanted Onion/Garlic the 1st time.
Want to try again but without that.

Same, got a real savory note thing off it. Love it in commercial beers but haven't been able to pull those good flavors out of it. Got some of the 2020 crop to try it again.

 

[R.A.I.D]

On the top of the (hot side) survival chart we finds many of the usual suspects like Idaho 7, Mosaic, Bravo and Citra.

http://thirdleapbrew.com/technical/yakima-chief-hops-survivables-chart/
But have any of you experience with some of the other hops on top of the list? Like:

Millennium
Mt. Hood
Ekuanot
Crystal
Loral
Comet
Talus

A little math shows that a mix of Mosaic, Millennium and Talus in the ratio 5:2:5 with give you more or less "full coverage" for all the tested hop oils.

 

[braindead]

Same, got a real savory note thing off it. Love it in commercial beers but haven't been able to pull those good flavors out of it. Got some of the 2020 crop to try it again.

Just checked.
I have the 2019 lot of Strata from BeerCo in Oz