Need opinions on Kolsch

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Draft Master Flash

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I just made a 5 gallon batch of kolsch from a kit put out by John Palmer. It is a dry malt extract kit.

5.5 Lbs Breiss Pilsner DME
.5 lb caravienne steeping grains
1.5 Hallertau Mittlefruh 60 minute
.5 Hallertau Mittlefruh 15 minutes
Saflager W-34/70 1 package, came with kit.

OG 1.049
FG. 1.012
ABV. 4.85

I folllowed instructions per recipe sheet and fermented at 57f (instructions said 54f-59f) for 2 weeks. There was good airlock activity for the first week. I let it sit for another week then transferred to keg on Monday. I chilled the beer to 34f and filled to 15psi. The following Friday I tasted it and it has this really big bite and not in a good way!

Does anyone have any opinions why? The recipe doesn't say to do anything else. Everything went great making it and I sanitized very well with Starsan. Would lagering help?

DMF.
 
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I did a lager that is still in the fermenter but under pressure and it ran to 78 on the second day, its been in the fermenter for about 20 days and am gonna transfer it today but mine has the stank to it but tastes very smooth nd clean. I say give it 2 weeks to balance out. My beers usually hit they stride after week 2 of sitting in the cold under co2. Now tbh they never really make it to 2 weeks but wen they do, they are perfect.
 
I did a lager that is still in the fermenter but under pressure and it ran to 78 on the second day, its been in the fermenter for about 20 days and am gonna transfer it today but mine has the stank to it but tastes very smooth nd clean. I say give it 2 weeks to balance out. My beers usually hit they stride after week 2 of sitting in the cold under co2. Now tbh they never really make it to 2 weeks but wen they do, they are perfect.
I'm thinking of giving it a few weeks to sit at 34f . Maybe because of the lower fermentation temp?

DMF
 
What was the water like for this brew? Tap water, distilled, RO with salts added?
 
I would give it a couple of weeks at 34 degrees as you mentioned. Especially if that bite you reported is from the hops. Time has a way of mellowing somethings out.
 
The taste you say is fusel alcohol which you get when fermented too hot . If your TCS is true I don't know how you could be getting fusels. Let it sit is your only option and hopefully in a week or so it's good to go.

Another thing is yeast. You can get fusels from a lack luster yeast pitch .
 
I just made a 5 gallon batch of kolsch from a kit put out by John Palmer. It is a dry malt extract kit.

5.5 Lbs Breiss Pilsner DME
.5 lb caravienne steeping grains
1.5 Hallertau Mittlefruh 60 minute
.5 Hallertau Mittlefruh 15 minutes
Saflager W-34/70 1 package, came with kit.

OG 1.049
FG. 1.012
ABV. 4.85

I folllowed instructions per recipe sheet and fermented at 57f (instructions said 54f-59f) for 2 weeks. There was good airlock activity for the first week. I let it sit for another week then transferred to keg on Monday. I chilled the beer to 34f and filled to 15psi. The following Friday I tasted it and it has this really big bite and not in a good way!

Does anyone have any opinions why? The recipe doesn't say to do anything else. Everything went great making it and I sanitized very well with Starsan. Would lagering help?

DMF.
Koelsch is an ale not a lager. K-97 is a better yeast for Koelsch.
 
I was a little confused why John Palmer would choose to use W-34/70 lager yeast instead of a Kolsch yeast in that maybe he was trying for a pseudo-lager type beer which the real German Fruh tastes like. Myself I would of chosen a kolsch yeast and fermented in the mid 60s but felt I should just follow the recipe intructions. I have read in some articles that you need to use 2 packets of W-34/70 but since the kit only came with 1, I trusted the Palmer. I got very fast results in the airlock, only in a matter of a few hours and continued solid for about a week.

Just hoping a few weeks is all it needs.

DMF
 
Also to mention I used a Inkbird-308 with the probe going down a thermowell inside of a Anvil 7.5 bucket fermenter in a chest freezer converted to fermentation chamber. Temperature was set to 57f with a Fermwrap around the Anvil as a heat source.


DMF
 
Your info certainly does not suggest a "lackluster" yeast. I agree with allowing more time (2-3 weeks) -- the great healer!
 
How did you manage your steeping grains? Do you think there is a chance they might have seen temps above 170F? Although it could be either a Pilsner or a Kölsch, it should be good. I really enjoy both styles, but they don’t leave room for mistakes. I really appreciate the subtleties of both styles.
 
How did you manage your steeping grains? Do you think there is a chance they might have seen temps above 170F? Although it could be either a Pilsner or a Kölsch, it should be good. I really enjoy both styles, but they don’t leave room for mistakes. I really appreciate the subtleties of both styles.
The steeping grains were pre-milled and kept in a nylon bag for 30 minutes and were pulled out before 170f per instructions. Funny you mention Pilsner because it did remind me of a Pilsner brewed in a Las Vegas mIcrobrewery called Tenaya Creek that I was never really impressed with. It does seem too bitter for a Kolsch though. Maybe the recipe has too much bittering hops.


DMF
 
I was a little confused why John Palmer would choose to use W-34/70 lager yeast instead of a Kolsch yeast
Kolsch is an ale that is fermented like a lager. I prefer actual Kolsch yeast but K-97 is another good ale yeast for this style.

What you have made is a lager since you used 34/70.

Ferment with a proper ale yeast closer to lager temps for 2 weeks or longer. When FG is reached, cold crash, bottle/keg and then LAGER it for a few weeks.
 
Kolsch is an ale that is fermented like a lager. I prefer actual Kolsch yeast but K-97 is another good ale yeast for this style.

What you have made is a lager since you used 34/70.

Ferment with a proper ale yeast closer to lager temps for 2 weeks or longer. When FG is reached, cold crash, bottle/keg and then LAGER it for a few weeks.
I highly suspected it was really a lager. Can't figure why Palmer picked 34/70 for a kolsch? Thanks to this thread and the members here I now know of K-97 yeast and will be giving that a try next. Another batch from a different kolsch recipe I have fermenting right now I am using Lalbrew Koln Kolsch yeast and I pitched two 11 gram packets and fermenting at 63f. Everything appears to be looking good as this time I am using a 7 gallon Fermonster so I can actually see whats going on inside. It looks like next time I can use only 1 packet of K-97 as with Koln Yeast it is said you have to use 2 packets.

DMF
 
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Well this week I took another taste of this batch and I would have to say it tastes 100% better then it did last week. This now feels promising. Will give it another week and I'm pretty sure it will turn out to be good! :)
 
I highly suspected it was really a lager. Can't figure why Palmer picked 34/70 for a kolsch?
While a lager yeast, 34/70 (WY2124, WLP830) is highly versatile and can be used to make lager like beers at ale temperatures. It is very forgiving. While a Kolsch is a German Ale, the style is highly variable as there are many Kolsch breweries each with its own flavor profile. Per the description below, a Kolsch can be very Pils-like.

"Style Comparison
To the untrained taster, easily mistaken for a cream ale or somewhat subtle Pils."

Palmer probably picked 34/70 due to its forgiving nature, which is helpful to less experienced brewers who do not have the best fermentation temp control, while still providing Kolsch-like beer.



5B. Kölsch
Overall Impression
A clean, crisp, delicately-balanced beer usually with a very subtle fruit and hop character. Subdued maltiness throughout leads into a pleasantly well-attenuated and refreshing finish. Freshness makes a huge difference with this beer, as the delicate character can fade quickly with age. Brilliant clarity is characteristic.
Appearance

Very pale gold to light gold. Very clear (authentic commercial versions are filtered to a brilliant clarity). Has a delicate white head that may not persist.

Aroma

Low to very low malt aroma, with a grainy-sweet character. A pleasant, subtle fruit aroma from fermentation (apple, cherry or pear) is acceptable, but not always present. A low floral, spicy or herbal hop aroma is optional but not out of style. Some yeast strains may give a slight winy or sulfury character (this characteristic is also optional, but not a fault). Overall, the intensity of aromatics is fairly subtle but generally balanced, clean, and fresh.

Flavor

Soft, rounded palate comprised of a delicate flavor balance between soft yet attenuated malt, an almost imperceptible fruity sweetness from fermentation, and a medium-low to medium bitterness with a delicate dryness and slight crispness in the finish (but no harsh aftertaste). The malt tends to be grainy-sweet, possibly with a very light bready or honey quality. The hop flavor is variable, and can range from low to moderately-high; most are medium-low to medium intensity and have a floral, spicy, or herbal character. May have a malty-sweet impression at the start, but this is not required. No noticeable residual sweetness. May have a slightly winy, minerally, or sulfury accent that accentuates the dryness and flavor balance. A slight wheat taste is rare but not a fault. Otherwise, very clean.

Mouthfeel

Medium-light to medium body (most are medium-light). Medium to medium-high carbonation. Smooth and generally crisp and well-attenuated.

Comments
Characterized in Germany as a top-fermented, lagered beer. Each Köln brewery produces a beer of different character, and each interprets the Kölsch Konvention slightly differently. Allow for a range of variation within the style when judging. Note that drier versions may seem hoppier or more bitter than the IBU specifications might suggest. Due to its delicate flavor profile, Kölsch tends to have a relatively short shelf-life; older examples and imports can easily show some oxidation defects. Served in Köln in a tall, narrow 200ml glass called a Stange.
History
Cologne, Germany (Köln) has a top-fermenting brewing tradition since the Middle Ages, but developed the beer now known as Kölsch in the late 1800s to combat encroaching bottom-fermented pale lagers. Kölsch is an appellation protected by the Kölsch Konvention (1986), and is restricted to the 20 or so breweries in and around Köln. The Konvention simply defines the beer as a “light, highly attenuated, hop-accentuated, clear, top-fermenting Vollbier.”
Characteristic Ingredients
Traditional German hops (Hallertau, Tettnang, Spalt or Hersbrucker). German Pils or pale malt. Attenuative, clean ale yeast. Up to 20% wheat malt may be used, but this is quite rare in authentic versions. Current commercial practice is to ferment warm, cold condition for a short period of time, and serve young.
Style Comparison
To the untrained taster, easily mistaken for a cream ale or somewhat subtle Pils.
 
While a lager yeast, 34/70 (WY2124, WLP830) is highly versatile and can be used to make lager like beers at ale temperatures. It is very forgiving. While a Kolsch is a German Ale, the style is highly variable as there are many Kolsch breweries each with its own flavor profile. Per the description below, a Kolsch can be very Pils-like.

"Style Comparison
To the untrained taster, easily mistaken for a cream ale or somewhat subtle Pils."

Palmer probably picked 34/70 due to its forgiving nature, which is helpful to less experienced brewers who do not have the best fermentation temp control, while still providing Kolsch-like beer.



5B. Kölsch
Overall Impression
A clean, crisp, delicately-balanced beer usually with a very subtle fruit and hop character. Subdued maltiness throughout leads into a pleasantly well-attenuated and refreshing finish. Freshness makes a huge difference with this beer, as the delicate character can fade quickly with age. Brilliant clarity is characteristic.
Appearance

Very pale gold to light gold. Very clear (authentic commercial versions are filtered to a brilliant clarity). Has a delicate white head that may not persist.

Aroma

Low to very low malt aroma, with a grainy-sweet character. A pleasant, subtle fruit aroma from fermentation (apple, cherry or pear) is acceptable, but not always present. A low floral, spicy or herbal hop aroma is optional but not out of style. Some yeast strains may give a slight winy or sulfury character (this characteristic is also optional, but not a fault). Overall, the intensity of aromatics is fairly subtle but generally balanced, clean, and fresh.

Flavor

Soft, rounded palate comprised of a delicate flavor balance between soft yet attenuated malt, an almost imperceptible fruity sweetness from fermentation, and a medium-low to medium bitterness with a delicate dryness and slight crispness in the finish (but no harsh aftertaste). The malt tends to be grainy-sweet, possibly with a very light bready or honey quality. The hop flavor is variable, and can range from low to moderately-high; most are medium-low to medium intensity and have a floral, spicy, or herbal character. May have a malty-sweet impression at the start, but this is not required. No noticeable residual sweetness. May have a slightly winy, minerally, or sulfury accent that accentuates the dryness and flavor balance. A slight wheat taste is rare but not a fault. Otherwise, very clean.

Mouthfeel

Medium-light to medium body (most are medium-light). Medium to medium-high carbonation. Smooth and generally crisp and well-attenuated.

Comments
Characterized in Germany as a top-fermented, lagered beer. Each Köln brewery produces a beer of different character, and each interprets the Kölsch Konvention slightly differently. Allow for a range of variation within the style when judging. Note that drier versions may seem hoppier or more bitter than the IBU specifications might suggest. Due to its delicate flavor profile, Kölsch tends to have a relatively short shelf-life; older examples and imports can easily show some oxidation defects. Served in Köln in a tall, narrow 200ml glass called a Stange.
History
Cologne, Germany (Köln) has a top-fermenting brewing tradition since the Middle Ages, but developed the beer now known as Kölsch in the late 1800s to combat encroaching bottom-fermented pale lagers. Kölsch is an appellation protected by the Kölsch Konvention (1986), and is restricted to the 20 or so breweries in and around Köln. The Konvention simply defines the beer as a “light, highly attenuated, hop-accentuated, clear, top-fermenting Vollbier.”
Characteristic Ingredients
Traditional German hops (Hallertau, Tettnang, Spalt or Hersbrucker). German Pils or pale malt. Attenuative, clean ale yeast. Up to 20% wheat malt may be used, but this is quite rare in authentic versions. Current commercial practice is to ferment warm, cold condition for a short period of time, and serve young.
Style Comparison
To the untrained taster, easily mistaken for a cream ale or somewhat subtle Pils.
Excellent information. Thanks!
 
thanks for this thread- I tried to follow a hybrid brew approach with Luv2brew Kolshc extract kit out of E. Brunswick NJ that had Lallemand Kolsch Style Ale Yeast- Koln while also reading about the "Its OK Kolsch" recipe in the Complete Joy of Homebrewing and trying to incorporate aspects of each though the ingredients varied- always a questionable supposition. Though I tried to keep fermentation temps lower, but they probably crept up higher- Papazian suggested around 70 degrees which I was in range of but Luv2berew recipe said best results were around 60 degrees. I got what I would consider a way too robust fermentation enough to blow off the airlock mechanism I had hooked up and then apparanetly I attempted what others did more carefully by reading other posts where some experimented with open atmospheric fermentation of ales perhaps of English style well I seem to have unwittingly done the same for this batch. At the moment, It looks more like a NE IPA instead of crisp and clear Pils. Maybe secondary at lager temps will improve perhaps into cold crash temps but highly suspect of results at the moment. I had a small taste to see if the beer seemed gone but it actually seemed decent aside from the considerable sediment. Maybe time will cure all ills on my approach too and it will turn out to be a decent beer but it remains to be seen.
 
I've since made a few more Kolsch's and looking back I can see how drastically how much cold aging makes a big difference. I have made the Kolsch from MoreBeer and used the Koln dry yeast which was good and have made the Kolsch from Ritebrew that was also very good. Since I don't use liquid yeast I think the K-97 is now my first choice yeast for Kolsch and Altbier. The pitch rate on the Koln yeast was that I needed to pitch 2 packets instead of just one with the K-97 so it's more cost efficient. These days I've mostly been into pseudo lagers using the Lutra Kveik dry yeast with good results. But will still be brewing Kolsch on a regular basis.

DMF
 
I used to brew a double (12 gallons) of Kölsch in late February to early March and then stash the kegs in the garage until it warmed up and I moved them to the basement. It was a such a treat to tap one during the heart of the summer. I could always tell which ones had experienced a good cold stretch in the garage as they were the best. Since I built a fermentation chamber I have been working on a Pilsner and I have found the cold aging really brings out the subtle beauty of the style. Lately I have ben using 34/70 which might be a good one to try if you don't have temperature control?
 
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