Lallemand Verdant IPA yeast

[redrocker652002]

I have been doing a bit of reading about this yeast and it intrigues me. I love apricot and one of the flavors on this is just that. My confusion runs into the best temp to run this at. The recipe I am using is this:

https://share.brewfather.app/Tg49h6TXdRgmZd

I am wondering if going lower in the temp range will bring out the apricot in the yeast, or going higher would be better? Also, the original recipe I saw the grain bill was a bit lower, so I rounded up just to make it easier as I have to buy grain in 1 pound increments. Any input on the recipe or the yeast is much appreciated.

Also, I was thinking of upping my base malt by a pound or two just to get my OG up. But my thought is to just go with what it is and see what I get.

Thanks in advance for any input.

 

[Franktalk]

My experience with Verdant is to push the temperature up to increase the esters. I usually go to the upper limit of the temperature range which is 73 F. It can be relatively neutral at the low end.

 

[redrocker652002]

My experience with Verdant is to push the temperature up to increase the esters. I usually go to the upper limit of the temperature range which is 73 F. It can be relatively neutral at the low end.

Thank you for the input. I have to figure out a way to rig my minifridge with something that will bring the beer up to that temp. It seems my mini fridge at rest is in the 67 to 69 degree range.

 

[Franktalk]

Get a Brew Belt.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=brew+belt+fermentation+heating+belt&crid=1XENBU8IJG4QX&sprefix=brew+belt,aps,110&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_2_9

 

[UdonPete]

I have been doing a bit of reading about this yeast and it intrigues me. I love apricot and one of the flavors on this is just that. My confusion runs into the best temp to run this at. The recipe I am using is this:

https://share.brewfather.app/Tg49h6TXdRgmZd

I am wondering if going lower in the temp range will bring out the apricot in the yeast, or going higher would be better? Also, the original recipe I saw the grain bill was a bit lower, so I rounded up just to make it easier as I have to buy grain in 1 pound increments. Any input on the recipe or the yeast is much appreciated.

Also, I was thinking of upping my base malt by a pound or two just to get my OG up. But my thought is to just go with what it is and see what I get.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Why not follow what thewy recommend : 18 - 25C ?
https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/canada/products/lalbrew-verdant-ipa

 

[AlexKay]

This yeast can be a monster. Start it at 68 ambient and it’ll be in the low-to-mid 70s once it’s gotten going.

 

[Bramling Cross]

I have no interest in its NEIPA characteristics, but it is unquestionably the best dry UK-style ale when pitched at 64F and allowed to follow a controlled-rise to 72F. Used in that fashion, I'm getting esters, but I'm hard pressed to call them apricot. Fruity, sure, but I wouldn't call them NEIPA stone fruity.

Most brewers suggest it's a blow off monster, but I haven't found that to be the case at lower temps. Clearly, my experience isn't going to get the results you want.

Ferment higher and rig a blow off. The only thing you'll find at 65F is a passable, not-quite-right, fruity bitter that is a lot better than the other dried strains--which isn't the highest of praise.

It does a nice porter, though.

 

[balrog]

I love Verdant and Nottingham mix, ferm profile is pitch 68F, ramp over 48hr to 72F and hold, in @Miraculix Classic English Ale. It gives a really nice "marmalade" that isn't over the top (YMMV), fyi i use water profile Ca:Cl:SO4 100:100:150.

 

[Miraculix]

I love Verdant and Nottingham mix, ferm profile is pitch 68F, ramp over 48hr to 72F and hold, in @Miraculix Classic English Ale. It gives a really nice "marmalade" that isn't over the top (YMMV), fyi i use water profile Ca:Cl:SO4 100:100:150.

I don't think that marmalade is the right term to describe the verdant taste. Extremely fruity would fit better imo. Also in the mix with notti, just a bit less intensity.

 

[balrog]

I don't think that marmalade is the right term to describe the verdant taste. Extremely fruity would fit better imo. Also in the mix with notti, just a bit less intensity.

I'm good with that description; fruity, but mildly dark-ish fruity. Not bright berry fruit, or tropical mango papaya fruit.

 

[Miraculix]

I'm good with that description; fruity, but mildly dark-ish fruity. Not bright berry fruit, or tropical mango papaya fruit.

I think the original "marmalade" description was referring to the British marmalade, which is made of orange zest if I'm not mistaking. @Northern_Brewer surely knows the exact definition. This type of marmalade has a very specific taste and fruity just doesn't really describes this specific taste.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Yep, in British English marmalade is a very specific flavour. Marmalade is a jam/preserve made from Seville oranges, which are the bitter members of the orange family, a citrus equivalent of Morello cherries. I used to work with a guy from Seville and he was fascinated by the whole idea as in Seville they're regarded as purely ornamental. They also have plenty of acidity so marmalade has a bit of the sweet/sour thing going on. But also you have the effect of a long cooking period which dulls the brightness of the orange whilst adding a bit of Maillardy stuff. So orange juice to marmalade is like chicken breast to steak, or trumpet to tuba - recognisably something in common but still very different.

As it happens a local commercial brewer did a taste-off at the weekend between a hoppy-ish (say 8g/l?) beer made with Notty, S-04 and Verdant. I'm not the best person for sensory stuff thanks to my long Covid, but the Notty was rather dull, S-04 better structured and showed the hops better, the Verdant had the creamy texture and hint of vanilla, other people got some peach but I could taste the orange. I wouldn't have said it was marmalade, more navel orange - French horn rather than tuba. I guess maybe cheap commercial marmalade is not too dissimilar, but nothing like my mum's homemade version <g>

Since it travels well and is a real taste of home, marmalade is widely available in British expat shops if you have one nearby. Cooper's Oxford is probably the benchmark for commercial marmalades, Wilkin & Sons do a whole range of variations which to my mind are a bit pale and undercooked being used to homemade. And it's completely different but I do have a soft spot for Rose's lime marmalade.

 

[InspectorJon]

Makes me wonder about adding a jar of marmalade at flame out. Marmalade whirlpool.

 

[Miraculix]

Yep, in British English marmalade is a very specific flavour. Marmalade is a jam/preserve made from Seville oranges, which are the bitter members of the orange family, a citrus equivalent of Morello cherries. I used to work with a guy from Seville and he was fascinated by the whole idea as in Seville they're regarded as purely ornamental. They also have plenty of acidity so marmalade has a bit of the sweet/sour thing going on. But also you have the effect of a long cooking period which dulls the brightness of the orange whilst adding a bit of Maillardy stuff. So orange juice to marmalade is like chicken breast to steak, or trumpet to tuba - recognisably something in common but still very different.

As it happens a local commercial brewer did a taste-off at the weekend between a hoppy-ish (say 8g/l?) beer made with Notty, S-04 and Verdant. I'm not the best person for sensory stuff thanks to my long Covid, but the Notty was rather dull, S-04 better structured and showed the hops better, the Verdant had the creamy texture and hint of vanilla, other people got some peach but I could taste the orange. I wouldn't have said it was marmalade, more navel orange - French horn rather than tuba. I guess maybe cheap commercial marmalade is not too dissimilar, but nothing like my mum's homemade version <g>

Since it travels well and is a real taste of home, marmalade is widely available in British expat shops if you have one nearby. Cooper's Oxford is probably the benchmark for commercial marmalades, Wilkin & Sons do a whole range of variations which to my mind are a bit pale and undercooked being used to homemade. And it's completely different but I do have a soft spot for Rose's lime marmalade.


View attachment 847548View attachment 847549

Shame on me, I've lived for about five years in the UK and never had it myself. Next time I got the chance, I'll buy the Oxford version.

 

[Miraculix]

I've even lived relatively close to Oxford.... Man, I've BEEN in Oxford on several occasions .

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Makes me wonder about adding a jar of marmalade at flame out. Marmalade whirlpool.

I suspect it would be like honey, that it wouldn't really work, but nothing stopping you from trying.

I've even lived relatively close to Oxford.... Man, I've BEEN in Oxford on several occasions .

Well if you're really going for the history angle, it's particularly associated with Dundee, Mackays claim that it all started when a Spanish ship sought refuge from a storm there and a Dundonian bought the Seville oranges on board. Duerrs in Manchester are another of the traditional names, but the Coopers is probably the one you're most likely to see overseas.
https://www.comptoir-irlandais.com/en/blog/mackays-interview-with-scott-barrie-n350

 

[Miraculix]

Yep, in British English marmalade is a very specific flavour. Marmalade is a jam/preserve made from Seville oranges, which are the bitter members of the orange family, a citrus equivalent of Morello cherries. I used to work with a guy from Seville and he was fascinated by the whole idea as in Seville they're regarded as purely ornamental. They also have plenty of acidity so marmalade has a bit of the sweet/sour thing going on. But also you have the effect of a long cooking period which dulls the brightness of the orange whilst adding a bit of Maillardy stuff. So orange juice to marmalade is like chicken breast to steak, or trumpet to tuba - recognisably something in common but still very different.

As it happens a local commercial brewer did a taste-off at the weekend between a hoppy-ish (say 8g/l?) beer made with Notty, S-04 and Verdant. I'm not the best person for sensory stuff thanks to my long Covid, but the Notty was rather dull, S-04 better structured and showed the hops better, the Verdant had the creamy texture and hint of vanilla, other people got some peach but I could taste the orange. I wouldn't have said it was marmalade, more navel orange - French horn rather than tuba. I guess maybe cheap commercial marmalade is not too dissimilar, but nothing like my mum's homemade version <g>

Since it travels well and is a real taste of home, marmalade is widely available in British expat shops if you have one nearby. Cooper's Oxford is probably the benchmark for commercial marmalades, Wilkin & Sons do a whole range of variations which to my mind are a bit pale and undercooked being used to homemade. And it's completely different but I do have a soft spot for Rose's lime marmalade.


View attachment 847548View attachment 847549

Managed to find this one:

Is it any good?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I don't think I've had it but it should be fine, as the label suggests they're one of the traditional names although you don't see them much now.

Edit - huh, apparently they were the biggest jam makers in Britain at one point, they went through the hands of Premier who are one of the biggest "store cupboard" food producers here but are now owned by Boyne Valley of Ireland, which makes sense with the Eurozone connection, but it seems it's just a brand now as Premier kept the original land/factory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chivers_and_Sons

 

[UdonPete]

I've even lived relatively close to Oxford.... Man, I've BEEN in Oxford on several occasions .

Was born and brought up in Oxford but unfortunately Cooper's Oxford marmalade is no longer made in Oxford

 

[redrocker652002]

Sorry to revive this thread, but I think brew day is today. So, as I am reading, pitch at about 68 or so and let it get to the low 70's? That is going to be interesting as my fermenting fridge usually only holds in the mid 60's. I have used a heating pad to up the temps a bit, so this should be fun.

 

[dmtaylor]

Sorry to revive this thread, but I think brew day is today. So, as I am reading, pitch at about 68 or so and let it get to the low 70's? That is going to be interesting as my fermenting fridge usually only holds in the mid 60's. I have used a heating pad to up the temps a bit, so this should be fun.

Personally I would ditch the heating pad and just let it start in the mid-60s. The fermentation is active enough that it will hit around 70 F inside of the fermenter, I can almost guarantee it.

 

[redrocker652002]

Personally I would ditch the heating pad and just let it start in the mid-60s. The fermentation is active enough that it will hit around 70 F inside of the fermenter, I can almost guarantee it.

OK, cool. I will hook it up just in case the temp falls for some reason. My ferm fridge usually is good at about 65 or so when it is not running, so that should be ok for this I am guessing.

 

[Miraculix]

Room temperature always did the job for me with verdant. Basement is about 18 c, but I also went higher without noticeable differences.

 

[Shenanigans]

I don't think I've had it but it should be fine, as the label suggests they're one of the traditional names although you don't see them much now.

Edit - huh, apparently they were the biggest jam makers in Britain at one point, they went through the hands of Premier who are one of the biggest "store cupboard" food producers here but are now owned by Boyne Valley of Ireland, which makes sense with the Eurozone connection, but it seems it's just a brand now as Premier kept the original land/factory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chivers_and_Sons

A useless fact

The farm I used to pick strawberries for in the summer holidays when I was at school was a supplier for them (Chivers)

 

[Sipina]

This talk of orange marmelade/jam got me thinking ...

How does the tropical fruit flavors of verdant ipa yeast compare to voss kveik? I have experienced the orange flavors from voss but have not used verdant before.

I am planning to brew something in terms of amberish english bitter shortly and I'm wondering which yeast to use. I guess voss should work just fine in the summer heat for this style. Otherwise I could try the basement with verdant.

Your thoughts?

 

[Miraculix]

This talk of orange marmelade/jam got me thinking ...

How does the tropical fruit flavors of verdant ipa yeast compare to voss kveik? I have experienced the orange flavors from voss but have not used verdant before.

I am planning to brew something in terms of amberish english bitter shortly and I'm wondering which yeast to use. I guess voss should work just fine in the summer heat for this style. Otherwise I could try the basement with verdant.

Your thoughts?

Both yeasts are completely out of style for an English bitter.

Verdant is to my palate unpleasant in a beer that is not American hop forward and kveik tastes like kveik.

I wouldn't describe verdant as tropical fruit, I would describe it as artificial fruit punch. That flavour works surprisingly well within an American hop forward beer and is one of my favourites for this specific type of beer.

I know it's called English, but it has nothing in common with the flavour that your get from traditional bitters.

You'd be better off using something else, if you want something that's close to the real deal.

I'd say 3470 fermented warm would be much closer to a clean-ish bitter than the two you've mentioned.

But around 20c Nottingham and s04 work also really well. Or you go with one of the liquid stains that are nice. I've just finished a bitter with the Timothy Taylor strain, 1469, that one does surprisingly well at slightly elevated temperature (22c).

 

[Sipina]

Both yeasts are completely out of style for an English bitter.

Verdant is to my palate unpleasant in a beer that is not American hop forward and kveik tastes like kveik.

I wouldn't describe verdant as tropical fruit, I would describe it as artificial fruit punch. That flavour works surprisingly well within an American hop forward beer and is one of my favourites for this specific type of beer.

I know it's called English, but it has nothing in common with the flavour that your get from traditional bitters.

You'd be better off using something else, if you want something that's close to the real deal.

I'd say 3470 fermented warm would be much closer to a clean-ish bitter than the two you've mentioned.

But around 20c Nottingham and s04 work also really well. Or you go with one of the liquid stains that are nice. I've just finished a bitter with the Timothy Taylor strain, 1469, that one does surprisingly well at slightly elevated temperature (22c).

Thanks for all the info.
The artificial taste thing is certainly not what I prefer. Have not thought about W3470, interesting approach indeed. How warm would that be?

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks for all the info.
The artificial taste thing is certainly not what I prefer. Have not thought about W3470, interesting approach indeed. How warm would that be?

Others and myself have fermented it at room temperature with success. Look up the "warm fermented lager" thread.

You could also mix Nottingham with Windsor for more flavour and decent attenuation.

But I'd go with a liquid yeast for British bitter. There's just no really decent dried one out there that I know of. Maybe from whc, haven't tried those yet.

 

[G_robertus]

This talk of orange marmelade/jam got me thinking ...

How does the tropical fruit flavors of verdant ipa yeast compare to voss kveik? I have experienced the orange flavors from voss but have not used verdant before.

I am planning to brew something in terms of amberish english bitter shortly and I'm wondering which yeast to use. I guess voss should work just fine in the summer heat for this style. Otherwise I could try the basement with verdant.

Your thoughts?

They're very different. Verdant also adds weird vanilla and apricot flavours, and the beers come out a lot softer. Verdant also really needs to be balanced out by either strong malt character, hop flavours or bitterness (malt- or hop-derived). Voss is more subdued to me, but can be tart.

Nottingham is robust, but attenuates a bit much and it's too clean. I don't like Windsor personally, but WHC Pub/Bond is a very solid choice. I don't know how it deals with temperature though. Usually basement temps are fine for me if I don't have space in the fridge. I haven't used it in a bitter yet, but in brown ales and stout it is amazing.

 

[Halfakneecap]

I quite like verdant and use it in UK beers. I prefer it to all other dry UK yeast strains. Have used many liquid strains and while they are better, i still use verdant for bitters and milds etc. I don't think its overly fruity, for me it has a nice amount of esters. I ferment it at the lower temp