Hop addition question

[shrews824]

Ok. So, I made a mistake with my hop addition and need some advice, thoughts, projections about how my beer might turn out from folks that may have made a similar mistake.

My initial recipe is for a Vienna Lager that I want to have ready for early Spring.

5 gal recipe:
4.0 lbs of Munich
3.0 lbs of Vienna
3.0 lbs of Maris Otter
0.2 lbs of Chocolate

0.5 oz of Nugget at (60)
0.75 oz of Hallertauer Mittelfruh (5)

W-34/70

So, things are going well and at the 15 min mark I go to add my whirlfloc and wort chiller, etc. and I accidentally added my Hallertauer as well. As soon as I dumped the hops I knew. Stupid and careless on my part. They were in slow motion going into the hop basket!!!! So, instead of completing the 15 minutes I just stopped the boil after 10 minutes. Wanted to make sure I was sanitized well. Essentially, I boiled for 55 minutes with Nugget and for 10 minutes with Hallertauer.

Thoughts on how the brew might turn out? Will it completely lose what aroma and flavor those late hop additions might have had or will the 5 minute extension make much difference?

This brew will ferment for 1 week give or take a day then the plan was to cold crash for about a month and bottle for another month for conditioning.

I know it'll still drink and be "ok", but just wanted to get some opinions.

Should I dry hop with Hallertauer about a week before bottling or will the longer conditioning time counteract that?

Thanks,
Scott

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I've done that many times and I doubt you even notice it and yes add the dry hop, it should be fine

 

[shrews824]

I've done that many times and I doubt you even notice it and yes add the dry hop, it should be fine

Thanks. Yeah, I didn't figure that it would make too much of a difference, but just wanted to make sure.

I guess now the question, how much hops and what kind? Maybe, 0.5 oz or a little less of Hallertauer for about 3 or 4 days????

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Yeah I think you won't notice any major difference, I would dry hop with .5 oz for 3 days then package, if you are using cold side finings then 3 days before you add your finings.

 

[shrews824]

Yeah I think you won't notice any major difference, I would dry hop with .5 oz for 3 days then package, if you are using cold side finings then 3 days before you add your finings.

Good deal. Sounds like a plan to me. Appreciate the help.

 

[Deadalus]

I too don't think you will be too far off from what you were expecting and yes I've done that too or missed an addition as well. In the heat of moment you may not have had time to consider all the possible options or some may not have been open to you but I will offer some suggestions there. First off, if you use any beer calculation apps, you could rerun your recipe as it actually took place to get an idea as to what might have changed as far IBUs. Hallertauers have a pretty low AA, so the five minutes extra on those may not quite balance out the 5 minutes less on the nuggets. You did have a little more Hallertauers but the extra weight of those is pretty small. Since you were using a hop basket, if you wanted to get the full 60 boil time, you could have pulled the basket at some point after the 15 minutes. This would be a reduction in the IBUs if you pulled it at say 10 minutes left. You'd still be boiling the wort though so you wouldn't see the same effect you wanted. But under this strategy, now if you had some additional hops, like the 1/4 oz of hallertauers for instance, you could have emptied the hops in the basket and then added what you wanted to possibly at the five minute mark. I'd have been a little careful though about adding in any new Nugget hops as those are high AA. Yet another option would have been to whirlpool some additional hops. I always dump the bittering hops from the basket when whirlpooling just to note.

There are some ways depending on equipment and also whether you want to open the fermenter to get the hops out but otherwise I would recommend dry hopping 3-5 days before packaging if you decide to do it. That's what I have always aimed to do, and most times 5 days but sometimes don't get things packaged until 7days. Now I usually keg though and then lager for about a month. Something I haven't worked out completely is a cold crash down to the mid to high 30's may drop the hops out. But I've also always used a hop bag and they have always seemed to float. I may not have gotten temp down far enough either. You could closed transfer to secondary if you wanted for instance after dry hopping at your lager fermentation temp then cold crash.

 

[IslandLizard]

As @Deadalus said, as soon as you discovered your "mistake" you could have pulled the hop basket out. Then put it back in at the correct time, or at flame out.

Reasons: the Nugget in the basket had given off most of her potential already during the 45' boil, not making much difference. There would have been some hop oils from the Hallertauer in the wort already isomerizing for 15' instead of the intended 5'. Being a fairly low %AA hop, they only add a little extra bitterness, in lieu of flavor/aroma.

We've all been in a similar situation, more than once. You'd suddenly need to think and handle quickly to contain the potential damage, but I very much doubt your beer was ruined in any which way. Sure, it will be ever so slightly different from what you had intended. Maybe even better...

 

[shrews824]

I too don't think you will be too far off from what you were expecting and yes I've done that too or missed an addition as well. In the heat of moment you may not have had time to consider all the possible options or some may not have been open to you but I will offer some suggestions there. First off, if you use any beer calculation apps, you could rerun your recipe as it actually took place to get an idea as to what might have changed as far IBUs. Hallertauers have a pretty low AA, so the five minutes extra on those may not quite balance out the 5 minutes less on the nuggets. You did have a little more Hallertauers but the extra weight of those is pretty small. Since you were using a hop basket, if you wanted to get the full 60 boil time, you could have pulled the basket at some point after the 15 minutes. This would be a reduction in the IBUs if you pulled it at say 10 minutes left. You'd still be boiling the wort though so you wouldn't see the same effect you wanted. But under this strategy, now if you had some additional hops, like the 1/4 oz of hallertauers for instance, you could have emptied the hops in the basket and then added what you wanted to possibly at the five minute mark. I'd have been a little careful though about adding in any new Nugget hops as those are high AA. Yet another option would have been to whirlpool some additional hops. I always dump the bittering hops from the basket when whirlpooling just to note.

There are some ways depending on equipment and also whether you want to open the fermenter to get the hops out but otherwise I would recommend dry hopping 3-5 days before packaging if you decide to do it. That's what I have always aimed to do, and most times 5 days but sometimes don't get things packaged until 7days. Now I usually keg though and then lager for about a month. Something I haven't worked out completely is a cold crash down to the mid to high 30's may drop the hops out. But I've also always used a hop bag and they have always seemed to float. I may not have gotten temp down far enough either. You could closed transfer to secondary if you wanted for instance after dry hopping at your lager fermentation temp then cold crash.

As @Deadalus said, as soon as you discovered your "mistake" you could have pulled the hop basket out. Then put it back in at the correct time, or at flame out.

Reasons: the Nugget in the basket had given off most of her potential already during the 45' boil, not making much difference. There would have been some hop oils from the Hallertauer in the wort already isomerizing for 15' instead of the intended 5'. Being a fairly low %AA hop, they only add a little extra bitterness, in lieu of flavor/aroma.

We've all been in a similar situation, more than once. You'd suddenly need to think and handle quickly to contain the potential damage, but I very much doubt your beer was ruined in any which way. Sure, it will be ever so slightly different from what you had intended. Maybe even better...

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Yeah, I panicked a little and didn't even think about pulling the hop basket. I was just trying to remedy the situation before I went too long. Wasn't smart enough to think of that I guess. I was never really worried about the beer being undrinkable or anything. I've just been really trying to nail down specific styles and get them as close as possible to "true to form" styles. I was more upset about that. It's all good though. That's small potatoes in the grand scheme of things.

The more I've been reading about traditional Vienna Lagers today the more I've learned that some traditional styles have a 10 minute late hop addition boil anyway. I'll have some time to think about whether or not I want to dry hop. I may just let it ride and see how it turns out.

Again, appreciate the feedback and help. Such a great homebrewing community here. I'm glad to be a part of it.

Cheers.

 

[Deadalus]

Oh yeah, my suggestions are in hindsight really and from having also made the same and other similar errors! Think of it as more of a "training exercise" instead. Something I do somewhat frequently is that when I am repeating a recipe, I may have it copied and have the grains all correct but I may not have gotten to updating the hops AA. Which I may not notice until I am just about to weigh them and add them! It's mayhem sometimes!

I like to brew to style most of the time too. I've brewed Vienna lagers twice but I did look up the style prior to posting and it was saying aroma was low to none. I don't like to have additions at under 10 minutes because I'm often prepping with the chiller and fermenter so I couldn't give you a good answer as to whether the dry hop might make up fo that. Like you, I would lean towards letting it ride. You'd still be in style and you'd be only making the one set of changes.

 

[shrews824]

Oh yeah, my suggestions are in hindsight really and from having also made the same and other similar errors! Think of it as more of a "training exercise" instead. Something I do somewhat frequently is that when I am repeating a recipe, I may have it copied and have the grains all correct but I may not have gotten to updating the hops AA. Which I may not notice until I am just about to weigh them and add them! It's mayhem sometimes!

I like to brew to style most of the time too. I've brewed Vienna lagers twice but I did look up the style prior to posting and it was saying aroma was low to none. I don't like to have additions at under 10 minutes because I'm often prepping with the chiller and fermenter so I couldn't give you a good answer as to whether the dry hop might make up fo that. Like you, I would lean towards letting it ride. You'd still be in style and you'd be only making the one set of changes.

It was definitely a training exercise alright. For about 3 minutes I was scrambling. I read the same thing about aroma being low. The more I contemplate the more I think I will just see how it turns out. Thanks a bunch.