Munich Classic - Hefe

[mattman91]

I’m planning on brewing a Hefeweizen in a few weeks. It has been a while since I brewed one. The last time I used 3068, but now I stick to dry yeast exclusively.

My question are:

1. Anyone tried this strain for a hefe? I hear it is compatible with 3068.

2. For a 3 gallon batch, should I use the whole pack? I’ve read a lot about under pitching for the style. No idea how much I should use for a 3 gallon batch.

Prost!

 

[ebbelwoi]

Munich Classic is the Doemens 479 strain, which originally came from the 476 strain, which is WY3068/WLP300.

Definitely do not use the whole pack. In Lallemand's own Munich Hefe recipe, the specified pitch rate is .5g/liter max. For you, that would be about 1/2 a pack.

I used about .2g/liter in this batch, which is just finishing up.

 

[Franktalk]

It's a great yeast for a hefe! You might also try an open fermentation with it. Some on HBT say it doesn't matter on the homebrew level, but I think it helps get the most out of the yeast, ester wise, and helps fermentation overall. I don't know about under pitching or pitching rate; I use a whole 11 g package for a 5-gallon batch. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

 

[AlexKay]

I make 2.5-gallon batches, and usually pitch half a pack of MC. I’ve made some really fantastic beers (a roggenbier that just finished up, and a weizenbock a while back) but also some lackluster ones. I haven’t been able to figure out the variables that made the difference, and have mostly gone back to 3068, even though I use dry yeast for just about every other style.

But here’s hoping your batch is one of the fantastic ones!

 

[Draft Master Flash]

I'm also about to use MC on a 1 gallon batch of hefeweizen. I guess 2 grams it is.

DMF

 

[NH81!]

I second doing an open fermentation...I have done so several times with this yeast with good result... cover the opening with cheese cloth for the first 2-3 days then seal up with airlock/blow off tube. I myself haven't noticed much difference in the ester profile produced from underpitching vs pitching the whole 11g package with this yeast compared to open fermentation which in my opinion results in the desired balanced esters in my Hefes....also if you are capable dough in around 114f as you heat up your strike water to your desired temp to get some of the benefits of a ferulic acid rest

 

[mattman91]

I’ve thought about open fermentation.

I ferment in a 5 gallon corny keg with a filtered floating dip tube. I guess what I could do is just keep the lid off for the first few days and place a piece of foil over the top. That should keep condensation from the top of my fermentation chamber and any other possible nasties.

I’ve also thought about an acid rest around that temp for 10 minutes or so, then an hour at 152F. I wonder if it would be a good idea to try to do a decoction up to 152?

 

[NH81!]

I’ve thought about open fermentation.

I ferment in a 5 gallon corny keg with a filtered floating dip tube. I guess what I could do is just keep the lid off for the first few days and place a piece of foil over the top. That should keep condensation from the top of my fermentation chamber and any other possible nasties.

I’ve also thought about an acid rest around that temp for 10 minutes or so, then an hour at 152F. I wonder if it would be a good idea to try to do a decoction up to 152?

I use a couple pieces of cheese cloth to cover the opening of my fermentor but i don't see why aluminum foil wouldn't work as long as it's some what loose....you could definitely hold at the acid rest temp for 10 minutes then ramp up but just doughing in at 114f and not holding that temp just keep heating to the mash temp works well enough or me...i feel you stay in each range long enough to get some benefits from it, kind of works like a cheater step mash

 

[ebbelwoi]

If you're fermenting in a corny keg, just put a spare disconnect on the gas post, and put a baggie or foil or something over it. That's open (unpressurized) fermentation. When you hit high kräusen, attach a hose to make it a blowoff.

I haven't done the math, but I wonder what size decoction you'd have to pull to get from ferulic rest temps to mash temps. Might have to do some kind of step infusion first. My hefeweizen mash temps are 45C, 65C, 72C. I think it might be too big of a jump to get from 45 to 62.

 

[SFC Rudy]

I've used Munich Classic and brewed the best hefe weizen I've brewed. My drinking buddy from Germany, we had more that our fair share of hefe weizens while stationed there, said "That's the taste I've been missing." Pretty much everyone I know that has spent time in Germany says the same thing.

I open ferment in a 15 gallon sterilite container I got from wal-mart with a jury rigged cooler (blichman cooling coil hooked up to a pond pump in a bucket of water in my fermentation chamber (chest freezer)). Fermented 10 days @ 68 and bottled. Like i said, best I ever made and real close to what I used to drink.

 

[Pablo 54]

Come to say.......

I open ferment every hefe I brew. I use a 5 gallon paint spray mesh to cover the top of the fermenter. Soak the mesh in StarSan before using.
3 days only then cover.
Once per day I scoop out the krausen IF it is dark and give the wort a vigorous stir. Spray the mesh with StarSan.

I like my hefe's on the banana end of the spectrum.

I stick with the Hochkurz Mash, decocting between steps with a pressure cooker.

 

[odie]

if you're fermenting in a corny keg, just put a spare disconnect on the gas post, and put a baggie or foil or something over it. That's open (unpressurized) fermentation. When you hit high kräusen, attach a hose to make it a blowoff.

I don't think that's quite "open fermentation". Pressurized v/s unpressurised is not quite the same as open vs closed. Pressurized is always closed but unpressurised could be either open or closed.

An airlock of some type is what makes it "closed" IMO. A disconnect will still act as as an airlock, especially with a blow off tube. But even without submerging the blow off tube in a bucket of water or just an open disconnect by itself...a hefe will produce enough krausen activity that nothing is coming backwards thru that disconnect for the first couple days or so.

I tried a pressurized hefe once...it was blowing krausen out the PRV for a few days. hefe will not be contained...

When I think of open fermentation, the picture in my mind is a large surface area open to the environment & mixing with open air...ie a large wide vat, a bucket fermenter without the top, or in this case, an open keg lid. The cheese cloth or similar "covering" is probably a smart idea to keep any dust or other random particles from dropping in.

 

[rmr9]

I have a hefeweizen open fermenting now - just coming up on 48 hours. I use an anvil bucket so I just leave the lid on gently and built a very loose sort of canopy over the opening with tin foil to avoid things dropping in.

 

[ebbelwoi]

I don't think that's quite "open fermentation". Pressurized v/s unpressurised is not quite the same as open vs closed. Pressurized is always closed but unpressurised could be either open or closed.

When I think of open fermentation, the picture in my mind is a large surface area open to the environment & mixing with open air...ie a large wide vat, a bucket fermenter without the top, or in this case, an open keg lid.

That used to be my mental image of open fermentation as well. However, the now-famous Brau! Magazin article on brewing Weissbier has this to say about open vs. closed fermentation:

Open (non-pressurized) fermentation leads to the fermentation of significantly more esters as opposed to pressurized fermentation.

The German version says the same thing, so it's not a matter of something getting lost in translation. It also mentions hydrostatic pressure. It doesn't say anything about mixing with open air being beneficial. My interpretation of that part of the article is that it's the lack of pressure that encourages ester formation.

My impression is that air that's barely moving across the surface of a very thick krausen isn't going to have much more effect on the beer underneath than air that isn't moving.

But the great thing about homebrewing is that you can do what works for you.

 

[odie]

what is the country of that magazine? Language interpretations vary...in their language "open fermentation" might not translate exactly to English how you think it does. And there is American English and British English. I suspect that article was written by a German. Who did the translation? An American or an Englishman? Or even someone who speaks a third language primarily but just happens to know both German and English?

Many items I receive are made in China but instructions are written poorly in English, but funny to read. There is always some information lost in translation.

But yes, unpressurized will produce more esters. But a closed/covered fermenter with an airlock/blowoff tube or a fermenter with no covering of any type are both unpressurized and will both produce lots of esters.

 

[ebbelwoi]

what is the country of that magazine? Language interpretations vary...in their language "open fermentation" might not translate exactly to English how you think it does. And there is American English and British English. I suspect that article was written by a German. Who did the translation? An American or an Englishman? Or even someone who speaks a third language primarily but just happens to know both German and English?

Many items I receive are made in China but instructions are written poorly in English, but funny to read. There is always some information lost in translation.

But yes, unpressurized will produce more esters. But a closed/covered fermenter with an airlock/blowoff tube or a fermenter with no covering of any type are both unpressurized and will both produce lots of esters.

The article was written in German and translated into English. I speak both English and German, and I've read both versions. The English translation is very good, but not perfect. On the this particular point, I did not notice any differences in meaning between the two versions on this particular point. The German version, however, is a bit clearer:

Bei offener, d.h. druckloser Vergärung werden deutlich mehr Ester gebildet als bei der Vergärung unter Druck.

With open, i.e. non-pressurized fermentation, considerably more esters are formed than with fermentation under pressure.

...offener, d.h. druckloser... literally means open, that means non-pressurized.

I consider this article an authority on brewing Weissbier, so I'm going to go with what the author says. Sounds like you're doing fine with your method, too. Prost!

 

[Dr_Jeff]

WARNING - HEADS WILL EXPLODE - READ AT YOUR OWN RISK

So here is one from the other end of the spectrum.
I have recently brewed a couple of Hefeweizens, pitching the second on the yeast cake from the first.
Each were ten gallon batches, a starter (2 liter, stepped) was done on the first batch, the yeast was Wyeast 3068, all starter was added to the fermenter.
Both were done in sealed kegmenters and under pressure ~25psi.
Temperature was started in the low to mid sixties, and the temperature was increased a couple or three of degrees each day until it got in the mid to upper seventies, held there for several days, then cold crashed.
The beer tastes amazing, plenty of banana and malt flavors, minimal to no clove.

No decoction was done, melanoidin was added to the grist that was basically 50/50 pils/white wheat malt.
Hops were/are Tettnanger.

 

[odie]

interesting...I did a hefe once under pressure and it was bland.

 

[Saunassa]

I use MC and pitch a half packet for 21L batch. Airlock is used first 24 hours and then when krausen forms I put in a blowoff tube that has just enough water to cover end to keep out bugs. I always underpitch and it comes out great.

 

[Pablo 54]

WARNING - HEADS WILL EXPLODE - READ AT YOUR OWN RISK

So here is one from the other end of the spectrum.
I have recently brewed a couple of Hefeweizens, pitching the second on the yeast cake from the first.
Each were ten gallon batches, a starter (2 liter, stepped) was done on the first batch, the yeast was Wyeast 3068, all starter was added to the fermenter.
Both were done in sealed kegmenters and under pressure ~25psi.
Temperature was started in the low to mid sixties, and the temperature was increased a couple or three of degrees each day until it got in the mid to upper seventies, held there for several days, then cold crashed.
The beer tastes amazing, plenty of banana and malt flavors, minimal to no clove.

No decoction was done, melanoidin was added to the grist that was basically 50/50 pils/white wheat malt.
Hops were/are Tettnanger.

I'm batting 0.000 on pitching on a yeast cake.
Are you dumping directly on the cake or syphoning off a certain amount per gallon of wort? I would love to be able to do this but I manage to screw it up every time.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

I'm batting 0.000 on pitching on a yeast cake.
Are you dumping directly on the cake or syphoning off a certain amount per gallon of wort? I would love to be able to do this but I manage to screw it up every time.

I will keg the beer, keeping the fermenter sealed (I use kegmenters), keep the fermenter cool ~45 degrees, then several days later, brew another beer, open the kegmenter and new wort goes directly in on the full/entire yeast cake, and seal up the fermenter again. The kegmenters have a 25psi prv, and it is usually hissing by the time I go to bed, if not then, for sure by in the morning.

I often time get 2-3 (10 gallon batch) beers on one packet/package of yeast.
Occasionally I'll save some of the yeast, more often, it all goes into the toilet/septic tank.

 

[Pablo 54]

I'm going to try that. I'm brewing a light lager on the 2nd so I should be good to go on the 16th.

Thank you.

 

[z-bob]

I used Munich Classic for the first time a week ago. The grist was 50% Vienna and 50% wheat flour. Noble-ish hops, no spices, no orange peel. (I think it's going to be kinda between a Hefeweizen and a Witbier.) Fermented about 4.5 gallons in a 5 gallon bucket and I was worried the krausen was going to blow the top off but it didn't. Day 4, I was going to top-crop the yeast but it had fallen already -- that surprised me because I was fermenting at 62° which is pretty cold for this one and I thought would slow it down. Last night I transferred it off the considerable trub into a carboy and put an airlock on it. I've moved it to a warmer place to get it to ferment-out another point or two and it's bubbling but that might just be off-gassing. It almost looks like skim milk.

I'm hoping it clears some without needing a long lagering; I know the beer should be cloudy but this is ridiculous. It'll also give me another chance to harvest the yeast. Maybe after a few days in the warm kitchen I'll move it back to the cold basement to encourage the yeast to drop out.

Edit: 24 hours later, the gravity has dropped 2 more points; it's where the final gravity should be and the beer is starting to clear a little.

 

[Jag75]

@z-bob , kind of like this?

 

[z-bob]

@z-bob , kind of like this?

Yes, very much like that. Or at least it was; I haven't looked at it yet this morning since I moved it back in the cold basement, but last night it was about half that cloudy. I'll be bottling it soon. I think I have a few pounds of rye malt, so will make a Roggenbier on the trub. Half rye, half dark Munich. Maybe a tiny bit of Carafa Special I to adjust the color.

 

[Jag75]

Yes, very much like that. Or at least it was; I haven't looked at it yet this morning since I moved it back in the cold basement, but last night it was about half that cloudy. I'll be bottling it soon. I think I have a few pounds of rye malt, so will make a Roggenbier on the trub. Half rye, half dark Munich. Maybe a tiny bit of Carafa Special I to adjust the color.

Mine stayed like this the whole keg .

 

[z-bob]

There's about an inch of trub on the bottom of the carboy. That's not all yeast, it's mostly flour that I sucked up when I transferred it from the bucket a couple of days ago. (bucket is opaque so I couldn't see what was at the bottom, and the trub was not compacted yet and perhaps never will) All that was still in suspension when I said it looked like skim milk. When I bottle it I'll have to keep the racking cane an inch above the trub and leave a good bit behind. (it will end up in the roggenbier) It has not cleared noticeably since I moved it to the basement; I think it's done.

I bought a longer hose for my racking cane yesterday; next time I rack from a bucket I will rack from near the top and slowly lower the cane as the level drops; by the time I reach the trub layer I will be able to see it and avoid it. Usually I just rely on it being compacted, and I put the end of the cane (which a tip on it) about an inch off the bottom. That doesn't work when you've got 2 inches of trub that is still fluid.

 

[Saunassa]

It should have a hazy look to it. Now if you have to strain through the teeth that is too much
You fermented it much colder then I ever have, I usually do 67 to get more balanced clove/banana flavor.
I am interested to see how yours turns out.