Make IPA Clear Again

[applescrap]

Nagrog did you dry hop and or whirlpool with 10 plus oz? You might have missed when I asked that. I have. This one was 10 oz citra. Which I think add to the turbidity. That and the grain. Here's the recipe. Judge for yourself. IPA is a big category. I don't have any problem with categorizing them all into groups, bitter, cloying, hoppy, whatever. As for popularity it is because they taste better imo. Also imo, they are more expensive to make, require more ingredients, better malt bills, interesting hopping considerations, and are more difficult to brew and rack. Filet mignon isn't going away either.

 

[Nagorg]

Nagrog did you dry hop and or whirlpool with 10 plus oz? You might have missed when I asked that. I have.

I didn't miss it Scrapple and I've come awful close to that amount of late addition and dry hops but still made clear beer. I really don't believe you can attribute that level of murk to hops alone.

I'm gonna assume that the Malted and Flaked Oats are the larger murk contributors. We're also missing the rest of the story here like yeast strain and water composition. Is it safe to assume that no finings were used in the murking of that juice, (a.k.a. "NEIPA")?

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Thats part of what I'm talking about... A devolution of brewing aspirations and general acceptance of what should be a flaw.

Its kind of like that baking show "Nailed It". If you dont know what I'm talking about, the participants are given an example of a decorated cake and they are supposed to re-create it.

Most fail, pretty badly actually... But I'm sure that the failed cake smells and tastes good though. Even so, should that be enough?

View attachment 620448

The difference is that brewers have not found a way to get that same flavor, mouthfeel, etc in a non-hazy beer. So the analogy is that the cake on the left doesn't taste or smell as good as the one on the right...which do you choose then? I'd take the one on the right if it tastes much better.

This is just like the sugar cookies that my sister in law makes vs the ones my wife makes. Sister in law's look like a work of art...taste like cardboard. My wife's look good, but nowhere near the perfection of her sister's, but OMG they taste fantastic.

I'll take flavor and aroma all day long.

 

[applescrap]

I didn't miss it Scrapple and I've come awful close to that amount of late addition and dry hops but still made clear beer. I really don't believe you can attribute that level of murk to hops alone.

I'm gonna assume that the Malted and Flaked Oats are the larger murk contributors. We're also missing the rest of the story here like yeast strain and water composition. Is it safe to assume that no finings were used in the murking of that juice, (a.k.a. "NEIPA")?

Nagrog I appreaciate the usage of scrapple. In actual fact, that is where applescrap came from. The great Charlie parker tune scrapple from the apple, which of course scrapple being sausage loose from the casing.

I am not sure if you can get clear beer after 10 oz fo / dry hop additions. I guess with time? But then the flavor goes quickly. I agree that the opaque color is from the malts and oats and I have mentioned that before for that reason. I like oats, wheat, honey malt etc. Its safe to assume that I don't fine any beer. Although sometimes I do, but not usually. Not opposed to it, but never seem to get it done. It makes racking much easier.

 

[snarf7]

Oh so Hefes are flawed because they're opaque? Good to know.

 

[Nagorg]

Oh so Hefes are flawed because they're opaque? Good to know.

We already covered this.. Hefe's arent pretending to be IPA's.

And a clear Hefe is a different beer; KrystalWeizen..

 

[snarf7]

We already covered this.. Hefe's arent pretending to be IPA's.
And a clear Hefe is a different beer; KrystalWeizen..

yes we did, and my response was to try the full gamut of German bocks but apparently that didn't sink in:

dunkel - light to medium brown, clear, roasted malt flavor
helles - pale to gold, clear, clean taste, lightly bready
eisbock - brown to black, clear but dark, sweet with slight fruit, punch of alcohol
weizenbock - golden to black, hazy, malty sweetness with fruit+spice notes

Oh noes they're all different! MAKE BOCKS 'BOCKY' AGAIN!

 

[HTH1975]

My main beef with this murky beer craze isn’t with NEIPAs, because that is now a stand-alone style. It’s with all beers that you seem to get now in the PA/APA/IPA category marked as unfiltered that look like dishwater and are not NEIPAs.

I prefer a clear beer as the flavours are crisper and more focused imo. If anyone else likes unfiltered beer with yeast and protein in suspension, great - they can have that too. We can always agree to disagree like gentlemen.

 

[Shepington]

I've accepted haze and pastry. Embraced perhaps in the former as long as the flavor and aroma are there (though I stop short of milkshake).

I also very much enjoy fruit sours.

I draw a firm line at breweries knowingly releasing can/bottle bombs of umfermented, unpasteurized fruit, thinking a disclaimer of "keep cold and drink fresh" is good enough.

Those breweries will hurt someone eventually (if they haven't already). If their conscience is somehow okay with that, there is no other option. They should be *forcibly closed*.

HAHAHA. I know the exact few breweries you're talking about too. I was scared the first time I picked one up to take home and wondered if it would explode in the 30 min car ride.

 

[GnenieGone]

It seems beyond silly to me to refuse to drink a beer that “tastes and smells good” because it’s “murky,” but I guess each to their own. I’m going to do whatever it takes to make my beer taste and smell wonderful, and continue not caring at all what it looks like. They do make opaque cups.

+1

 

[Nagorg]

I think my point is being made CLEAR... This NEIPA trend has given birth to a trend of murk acceptance. Even some homebrewers no longer care if their beer is visually appealing anymore as long as it smells and tastes good. I guess it good for the breweries and tap houses; they no longer have to worry when poor clarity strikes. Murky beer is becoming the new norm regardless of cause.

MAKE IPA CLEAR AGAIN!

 

[MrTimV]

What's preferable though, clear swill or the hazy good tasting stuff?
Sometimes you can't have both.

 

[Nagorg]

What's preferable though, clear swill or the hazy good tasting stuff?

I'd prefer to have the hazy good tasting stuff in a non-IPA category!

 

[CascadesBrewer]

At least NEIPAs don't look like this...well, not yet.

 

[Virginia_Ranger]

Honestly to nod to the subliminal haze craze that’s going on I brewed a pale ale recently I didn’t intend to be hazy but it was and said f*** it, it tastes good and it looks like everything else on the market right not and went no further clearing it.

 

[Beerwildered]

Dear St. Arnold make it stop.

 

[applescrap]

Dear St. Arnold make it stop.

I agree, dear St. Arnold please make these useless posts like this stop

 

[applescrap]

Murk, dishwater...srsly. I mean wth. Or oat malt, flaked oats and honey malt and 10oz dank hops. I agree though there should be more variety everywhere, and you have a right to know what you are getting. You should be able to find the beer you like without having to guess. I cant help you change the fact very few people want what you want anymore. I surely don't, unless I was with you and then I would gladly drink them all night with the good humor and great company.

 

[Gravitysucks]

I think the term IPA has pretty much lost all meaning since craft brewers have decided they can call just about anything they brew an IPA. I've concluded that the reason many of these brewers have so many different beers on tap is because they aren't capable of making beer that's consistent from batch to batch and since many of them seem to have a policy of never dumping a batch no matter how flawed they just come up with cutesy names, talk up the flaws like they were intentional, and claim it's the next greatest thing. Fortunately for them there's a lot of stupid people out there that would drink bog water if the in-crowd said it was cool. For Now. Eventually people will smarten up and realize a lot of what's being put out there is actually worse than bog water. Maybe then clear IPAs will make a comeback.

 

[day_trippr]

First reaction: "Hells no!"
Second thought: "Wait...you weren't keen on haze for like...forever. Remember?"

So, ok, if I ever come across one of those, I'll try it...

Cheers!

 

[Qhrumphf]

I think the term IPA has pretty much lost all meaning since craft brewers have decided they can call just about anything they brew an IPA. I've concluded that the reason many of these brewers have so many different beers on tap is because they aren't capable of making beer that's consistent from batch to batch and since many of them seem to have a policy of never dumping a batch no matter how flawed they just come up with cutesy names, talk up the flaws like they were intentional, and claim it's the next greatest thing. Fortunately for them there's a lot of stupid people out there that would drink bog water if the in-crowd said it was cool. For Now. Eventually people will smarten up and realize a lot of what's being put out there is actually worse than bog water. Maybe then clear IPAs will make a comeback.

There's a double edged sword here. Brewers have to brew all these different things, often with zero pilot or dialing in, because that's the nature of the market.

The demand is "new". The days of the consistent flagship are waning.

 

[Nagorg]

There's a double edged sword here. Brewers have to brew all these different things, often with zero pilot or dialing in, because that's the nature of the market.

The demand is "new". The days of the consistent flagship are waning.

I have to agree with this point. But in the long run I'm not sure its healthy for the industry, or the consumer for that matter. May be better for home brewers though since we dont have to make the ADD consumer base happy in order to survive.

Eventually people will smarten up and realize a lot of what's being put out there is actually worse than bog water.

I sure hope so... This thread is focused on the demise of clarity, specifically with what people are starting to think is an IPA. But there is more than poor clarity going on with these things being poured as the latest "NEIPA". On several occasions I've had friends ask me if I wanted to taste the new "IPA" they got from the tap. Upon tasting the beer, I'm repulsed by other flaws such as phenols and that "burnt plastic" taste etc.. Even so, folks continue to sip and help pay for the keg of swill. And you can see the perplexed look on their face as they assume that that they are supposed to like the slog since its Craft beer and everyone is doing it...

 

[shoreman]

The style originated with The Alchemist and Heady Topper - the haze was a by-product of the hopping times/quantities and interactions of the Conan yeast strain. It’s a full on IPA in every sense. They even labeled the cans “drink straight from the can”.

Other breweries took it from there and it got silly-too many adjuncts.

Try a Heady, no way that’s not classified as an IPA, it’s one of the best ever brewed in the history of IPAs

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I think the term IPA has pretty much lost all meaning since craft brewers have decided they can call just about anything they brew an IPA. I've concluded that the reason many of these brewers have so many different beers on tap is because they aren't capable of making beer that's consistent from batch to batch and since many of them seem to have a policy of never dumping a batch no matter how flawed they just come up with cutesy names, talk up the flaws like they were intentional, and claim it's the next greatest thing. Fortunately for them there's a lot of stupid people out there that would drink bog water if the in-crowd said it was cool. For Now. Eventually people will smarten up and realize a lot of what's being put out there is actually worse than bog water. Maybe then clear IPAs will make a comeback.

Ah, the old "anybody who likes something I don't is stupid and gullible" argument. Well played sir, well played.

 

[Nagorg]

Ah, the old "anybody who likes something I don't is stupid and gullible" argument.

I don't think that's whats being said at all. The truth is that a lot of bad beer is being made and sold to a crowd of folks that are having their impressions of "Craft Beer" set. And they specifically are being told these glasses of murk are IPA so its being set as such for them, even if its not good. These folks are starting to think that all Craft Beer should look like a glass of OJ and possibly taste like burnt plastic and thats okay!

 

[shoreman]

I don't think that's whats being said at all. The truth is that a lot of bad beer is being made and sold to a crowd of folks that are having their impressions of "Craft Beer" set. And they specifically are being told these glasses of murk are IPA so its being set as such for them, even if its not good. These folks are starting to think that all Craft Beer should look like a glass of OJ and possibly taste like burnt plastic and thats okay!

I guess I haven't really had any "bad" NEIPAs yet - maybe b/c I'm super picky about dates on packaging and won't even think about putting my money down on something that is older than 1 month in IPAs.

I have had a lot of really poorly made IPAs that are going for a west coast style IPA - no hop character and way too much crystal malt.

But then again, I live in New England

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I have to agree with this point. But in the long run I'm not sure its healthy for the industry, or the consumer for that matter. May be better for home brewers though since we dont have to make the ADD consumer base happy in order to survive.



I sure hope so... This thread is focused on the demise of clarity, specifically with what people are starting to think is an IPA. But there is more than poor clarity going on with these things being poured as the latest "NEIPA". On several occasions I've had friends ask me if I wanted to taste the new "IPA" they got from the tap. Upon tasting the beer, I'm repulsed by other flaws such as phenols and that "burnt plastic" taste etc.. Even so, folks continue to sip and help pay for the keg of swill. And you can see the perplexed look on their face as they assume that that they are supposed to like the slog since its Craft beer and everyone is doing it...[/QUOTE]

Again, the implication that people who like NEIPAs are stupid and gullible. There are very good NEIPAs out there. Using poor examples of the style as a reason to degrade the people who enjoy them is disingenuous. You can try to shame fans of the style, but it ain't gonna work. Nice try though...

News flash: there are crappy clear IPAs, crappy Saisons, crappy pale ales, crappy lagers, etc. out there too. I suppose fans of those styles are much too savvy to be duped though, right?

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I don't think that's whats being said at all. The truth is that a lot of bad beer is being made and sold to a crowd of folks that are having their impressions of "Craft Beer" set. And they specifically are being told these glasses of murk are IPA so its being set as such for them, even if its not good. These folks are starting to think that all Craft Beer should look like a glass of OJ and possibly taste like burnt plastic and thats okay!

OK, then what is this saying: " Fortunately for them there's a lot of stupid people out there that would drink bog water if the in-crowd said it was cool. "

 

[couchsending]

Hate to break it to you but there’s just as much bad IPA out there that’s clear.


The best breweries make the best beer, regardless of what it looks like. The crappy breweries still make crappy beer.

 

[applescrap]

Add, stupid people, murk, dishwater, burnt plastic, bad beer and on and on.

 

[Nagorg]

OK, then what is this saying: " Fortunately for them there's a lot of stupid people out there that would drink bog water if the in-crowd said it was cool. "

If you drop the "stupid" reference, its saying that a lot of folks do what the in-crowd does even if they might question it.

Hate to break it to you but there’s just as much bad IPA out there that’s clear.

There are certainly good and bad clear IPA's out there. But I have to say I've had more bad murky beers than clear...

However, this thread isn't really about good -vs- bad beer. Its about IPA that's supposed to be CLEAR! The proliferation of the murk water beers, most of which arent very good, and the association with IPA as a style needs to change its course.

Move these beers into a cloudy ale category of their own and MAKE IPA CLEAR AGAIN!

 

[schematix]

Free beers last night. Beer menu had 3 IPAs.

This mess was the best.

The clear IPAs were horrific. One tasted infected and the other was fully oxidized. Both tasted like bad home brew.

Overall a huge fail on the beers.

 

[couchsending]

If you drop the "stupid" reference, its saying that a lot of folks do what the in-crowd does even if they might question it.



There are certainly good and bad clear IPA's out there. But I have to say I've had more bad murky beers than clear...

However, this thread isn't really about good -vs- bad beer. Its about IPA that's supposed to be CLEAR! The proliferation of the murk water beers, most of which arent very good, and the association with IPA as a style needs to change its course.

Move these beers into a cloudy ale category of their own and MAKE IPA CLEAR AGAIN!

So you’re saying we should make IPAs less aromatic and less flavorful? Cause that’s what making them clear would do....

 

[Gravitysucks]

OK, then what is this saying: " Fortunately for them there's a lot of stupid people out there that would drink bog water if the in-crowd said it was cool. "

Ok, "stupid" may have been a bit harsh. Maybe "uninformed" or "don't know better" would have been better. The point was that, while there are a lot of good beers out there, a lot of them, all styles, not just IPAs, just aren't very good. Yet, because there seems to be this idea out there that "craft beer" automatically means "great beer" people lap it up whether good or not.
I apologize to Nagorg for dragging this thread OT.

 

[Nagorg]

So you’re saying we should make IPAs less aromatic and less flavorful? Cause that’s what making them clear would do....

Nope... Not saying that at all. There are plenty of very aromatic and flavorful clear IPA's out there. Nice and clear and visually appealing! A true 3 dimensional experience (sight, smell and taste)..

 

[Jako]

Additionally, I know winter is short here but a red ale and a RIS are too few for malty options. Make beer malty again! I’m not a complete hater but one hazy and one kettle sour with way too much of whatever bs clever fruit combo your brewer finds edgy and unique is enough. Who knows, I may be in the minority in wanting a wide variety of beers when I visit your tap house.

one day i will have my own place. most of my beers are malt forward. and my hop forward beers have tons of malt flavor. none of this 2 row nonsense.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Nope... Not saying that at all. There are plenty of very aromatic and flavorful clear IPA's out there. Nice and clear and visually appealing! A true 3 dimensional experience (sight, smell and taste)..

I think what you're saying is "IPAs are my lawn. Now get off my lawn you intense hop flavor enjoying whippersnapper" while waving your cane in the air for emphasis.

 

[Jako]

Free beers last night. Beer menu had 3 IPAs.

This mess was the best.
View attachment 620597

The clear IPAs were horrific. One tasted infected and the other was fully oxidized. Both tasted like bad home brew.

Overall a huge fail on the beers.

the first crime was serving a beer in a mason jar....

 

[Nagorg]

I think what you're saying is "IPAs are my lawn. Now get off my lawn you intense hop flavor enjoying whippersnapper" while waving your cane in the air for emphasis.

ROFLMAO... You are so funny! I'm saying, put those beers into their own category and stop calling them IPA. AND MAKE IPA CLEAR AGAIN!

 

[deadwolfbones]

I don't think that's whats being said at all. The truth is that a lot of bad beer is being made and sold to a crowd of folks that are having their impressions of "Craft Beer" set. And they specifically are being told these glasses of murk are IPA so its being set as such for them, even if its not good. These folks are starting to think that all Craft Beer should look like a glass of OJ and possibly taste like burnt plastic and thats okay!

There are just as many bad west coast IPAs being made. Along with every other style under the sun.