Lallemand Verdant IPA Ale

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tbaldwin000

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Any idea if those breweries have reported the NE to perform just like Conan? Keep wanting to try it but feedback is way more mixed compared to Verdant. I love Conan for, if nothing else, the improved attenuation and reasonable Krausen compared to London iii
I have spoken to a fair few brewers who have used the dried Conan, and had plenty of beer made from it. I have also used it myself. It's definitely possible to get the Conan character from it, but if wet Conan isolates can be a bit unpredictable, then the dry format is predictable but not in a desirable way. It has a really, really low packaged cell count. They had a great deal of trouble getting a good cell count when drying it. That being the case it is really sluggish in generation 1, but behaves more like wet Conan in generation 2 onwards...but then you're back to handling wet yeast and some of the benefit disappears. I don't use it any more, I let WLP095 scratch my occasional Burlington itch.
Well...I am pretty sure they said they started with a London Ale III strain and this is based off their house strain that, after many generations, has some unique characters. I am not sure that means "1000% just an isolate".
Well, I can't be bothered to debate the meaning of isolate, but it is just London Ale III that went for a few generations and as a result took on some slight mutations. It's about as different from LAIII as London Fog is (another isolate of the same strain), it certainly does have a slightly more sweet yoghurt/apricot character than LAIII.
 

tyrub42

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I have spoken to a fair few brewers who have used the dried Conan, and had plenty of beer made from it. I have also used it myself. It's definitely possible to get the Conan character from it, but if wet Conan isolates can be a bit unpredictable, then the dry format is predictable but not in a desirable way. It has a really, really low packaged cell count. They had a great deal of trouble getting a good cell count when drying it. That being the case it is really sluggish in generation 1, but behaves more like wet Conan in generation 2 onwards...but then you're back to handling wet yeast and some of the benefit disappears. I don't use it any more, I let WLP095 scratch my occasional Burlington itch.

Well, I can't be bothered to debate the meaning of isolate, but it is just London Ale III that went for a few generations and as a result took on some slight mutations. It's about as different from LAIII as London Fog is (another isolate of the same strain), it certainly does have a slightly more sweet yoghurt/apricot character than LAIII.
That is great info, thanks so much! I tend to build starters even with dry yeast, so the cell count isn't much of an issue (also since I know about it in advance). Bummer about generation one but that definitely explains the mixed reviews. I could see using gen 1 in a more traditional English ale and then using that slurry to make some hoppy stuff once it starts acting like itself again. Over here in Taiwan it's so much easier to grab a packet of this than to order the liquid and wait the weeks or months for it. Thanks again 🍻🍻🍻
 

TBA

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In the Lallemand video they speak of top cropping. I never did that before using Verdant. Now I do it all the time. This is so much better than collecting the slurry with all the dry hops in it. I’ve gone 6 generations this way with no issues. Love this yeast!
 

stickyfinger

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Another great way to get yeast with IPAs is to ferment out the IPA and then rack it to a keg with a floating dip tube and dry hop in there, then transfer it to a serving keg. I like being able to mix the hops around in the keg several times per day for 2 days. Then, you can just save all of the clean yeast slurry from the bottom of your fermentation vessel.
 

TBA

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Do you cold crash before transfer to dry hop keg? If so what temperature?
 

stickyfinger

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yeah, i went down to 35F for 7 days this time. the US-05 was getting pretty clear. The Verdant was a little more hazy. I like IPA without much yeast in it. I've used 50F when I dry hop at 50F and it works ok too.
 

crusader1612

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For those unaware.
Mangrove Jacks have released a similar yeast to either this or the New England strain.

I used it on the weekend in a variation of Hop Hands, to see the result.
Will report back

FYI the yeast is M66 Hophead Ale
 

duncan_disorderly

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Just dropping by via my keyboard in England to say i am liking this Verdant yeast, the best dry yeast I have come across for my purposes so far, in terms of usefulness across the range of beers I brew and drink the most, which means English ales of all colours and American influenced versions of them (I brew Belgian stuff too).

It is a very vigorous yeast, it gets going very quickly and works quickly, drops clear for me and the top cropped yeast is super vital. Has the feel of a liquid yeast. I get close to 75% attenuation every time, and the beers all possess a very nice texture, and good healthy foam, and a depth of flavour. I've done English and American versions of pales, brown ales, red ales and porter with Verdant and all turned out really well. I'm drinking a splendid American Brown ale at the minute.

The only slight caveat I have is that in one of the two very pale English ales i've made the apricot from the yeast was a bit fulsome, and influence the beer a tad too much, it was a bit of an apricot smoothie. Temp control might sort that out. The other is great, very true to style, a simple ordinary bitter with just pale malt and English hops.

I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of people who have brewed English pales/bitters/ESBs with Verdant.
 

beervoid

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Just dropping by via my keyboard in England to say i am liking this Verdant yeast, the best dry yeast I have come across for my purposes so far, in terms of usefulness across the range of beers I brew and drink the most, which means English ales of all colours and American influenced versions of them (I brew Belgian stuff too).

It is a very vigorous yeast, it gets going very quickly and works quickly, drops clear for me and the top cropped yeast is super vital. Has the feel of a liquid yeast. I get close to 75% attenuation every time, and the beers all possess a very nice texture, and good healthy foam, and a depth of flavour. I've done English and American versions of pales, brown ales, red ales and porter with Verdant and all turned out really well. I'm drinking a splendid American Brown ale at the minute.

The only slight caveat I have is that in one of the two very pale English ales i've made the apricot from the yeast was a bit fulsome, and influence the beer a tad too much, it was a bit of an apricot smoothie. Temp control might sort that out. The other is great, very true to style, a simple ordinary bitter with just pale malt and English hops.

I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of people who have brewed English pales/bitters/ESBs with Verdant.
You think the apricot came out cause it was fermented too hot?
 

duncan_disorderly

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You think the apricot came out cause it was fermented too hot?
I don't think so, I don't have a fermenting fridge but my FV was in a cool place in a cool house in a cool town in winter. Ambient 14 to 18C. Fermentation will have lifted the beer above that obviously. Maybe 21C tops I would imagine.
 

Miraculix

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How long does this one need to finish, based on your experience?

Is it realistic for a 1.042 golden ale with 10% invert and 10% corn to finish within 7 days?

I'm a bit in a rush I'm afraid...
 

duncan_disorderly

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How long does this one need to finish, based on your experience?

Is it realistic for a 1.042 golden ale with 10% invert and 10% corn to finish within 7 days?

I'm a bit in a rush I'm afraid...
I never rush my beers out of the FV, usually do 2 weeks sometimes more, sometimes a bit less. So i'm not 100% sure, but I reckon yes. The fermentation slows right down after a couple of days. Probably the only issue you face is the huge creamy head, but there are ways round that I reckon - rack from under it, or skim it off. sorry I can't be more helpful, but this is a rapid yeast and you should be ok.
 
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Miraculix

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I never rush my beers out of the FV, usually do do weeks sometimes more, sometimes a bit less. So i'm not 100% sure, but I reckon yes. The fermentation slows right down after a couple of days. Probably the only issue you face is the huge creamy head, but there are ways round that I reckon - rack from under it, or skim it off. sorry I can't be more helpful, but this is a rapid yeast and you should be ok.
Thanks.

I usually also keep it in there for two weeks to be on the safe side.

But bigger things in life are popping up really soon and I won't have time then, I have to compromise.
 
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Miraculix

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Pitched it yesterday morning and high krausen is already over after not even two days. At the moment it stands in the attic at about 16c, tomorrow I'll bring it into the apartment to raise the temperature till bottling.
 
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sykesey

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2nd batch in the keg with this. I misjudged the ambient temperature and it hit 24C at its peak but average about 21C... finished in 36 hours of wild ferment from 1.053 to 1.017 with half an 11.5 g pack in 20L/5gal ! I mashed at 72C for mouthfeel/residual sweetness so i expected that FG. Brewed Friday, in the keg today, 6 day turnaround with 48 hours of burst carb and some settling time in the keg, easy.

Getting used to the apricot/vanilla notes for sure. Noticed some bricks in my local brewery's coolroom as well (now one of the most well-reviewed hazy brewers here in oz), head brewer says they are keeping it on hand as a backup just in case their house london ale III can't be pitched for whatever reason. He hasn't used it yet though.
 

Miraculix

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Well, high krausen wasn't over. I have my fermenter filled up to 2/3 of the volume and still the foamy yeastiness managed to roach the top of it from the inside. That is a MASSIVE activity!

However, now it seems to be done. 3.5 days after pitching. That's great because I can bottle it this weekend. Dry hops go in tomorrow.
 
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Miraculix

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Opened the fermenter a little bit yesterday to throw in the dry hops and maaaaan what a sick krausen stuck to the surface of the beer! My weighted dry hopping bag broke it obviously, but just throwing in whole hops on their own would have been problematic.

It smelled bready malty nicely, I'm looking forward to drinking the result.
 

tyrub42

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Another great way to get yeast with IPAs is to ferment out the IPA and then rack it to a keg with a floating dip tube and dry hop in there, then transfer it to a serving keg. I like being able to mix the hops around in the keg several times per day for 2 days. Then, you can just save all of the clean yeast slurry from the bottom of your fermentation vessel.
Have you thought about skipping a step and just dry hopping in the serving keg? It's pretty common among leggers, and since you're crashing the beer before dry hopping anyway, which I'm guessing means you're dry hopping at cold temps also, I don't think there'd be much of an issue. At serving temps with the kind of hops you're likely using I don't think grassiness would be an issue either even if it's in there for several weeks. Scott Janish has pics of his contraption but it's basically a mesh hop pod that he put a hold on and ran his dip tube through. I don't keg but it works for him at least
 

Twinkeelfool

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Just dropping by via my keyboard in England to say i am liking this Verdant yeast, the best dry yeast I have come across for my purposes so far, in terms of usefulness across the range of beers I brew and drink the most, which means English ales of all colours and American influenced versions of them (I brew Belgian stuff too).

It is a very vigorous yeast, it gets going very quickly and works quickly, drops clear for me and the top cropped yeast is super vital. Has the feel of a liquid yeast. I get close to 75% attenuation every time, and the beers all possess a very nice texture, and good healthy foam, and a depth of flavour. I've done English and American versions of pales, brown ales, red ales and porter with Verdant and all turned out really well. I'm drinking a splendid American Brown ale at the minute.

The only slight caveat I have is that in one of the two very pale English ales i've made the apricot from the yeast was a bit fulsome, and influence the beer a tad too much, it was a bit of an apricot smoothie. Temp control might sort that out. The other is great, very true to style, a simple ordinary bitter with just pale malt and English hops.

I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of people who have brewed English pales/bitters/ESBs with Verdant.
I agree totally. I like 1469, but this yeast is the best dry yeast imho. The ease of dry yeast but quite a lot of character and nice mouthfeel. I did a very simple bitter and ran it through my nitro tap. Absolutely beautiful. Will use again absolutely.

I found even at 16c, there were very nice esters, but not over the top.
 

stickyfinger

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I’ve had hops in the serving keg before. It worked sometimes and sometimes I thought it gave some hop flavor I didn’t like. One main reason I like to get off the hops is in case I want to move the keg. I’ve moved kegs with dry hops in the. And it was a disaster to serve right away.

Have you thought about skipping a step and just dry hopping in the serving keg? It's pretty common among leggers, and since you're crashing the beer before dry hopping anyway, which I'm guessing means you're dry hopping at cold temps also, I don't think there'd be much of an issue. At serving temps with the kind of hops you're likely using I don't think grassiness would be an issue either even if it's in there for several weeks. Scott Janish has pics of his contraption but it's basically a mesh hop pod that he put a hold on and ran his dip tube through. I don't keg but it works for him at least
 

isomerization

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Have made two hazy IPAs and a coffee stout with this yeast, very impressed so far. Turning the dial to 11 with a big imperial stout (1.114 OG), krausen is the only annoyance:
B318EFBC-45C4-4B8B-BC7A-D5A9AB47B4B8.jpeg

Almost 3 gallons of krausen 😵
 

isomerization

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There's room for more beer in there. Is that the krausen you got with a bit of pressure in there?
No pressure, just a line out to purge kegs with the gas blowoff. I put 6 gallons in there, honestly another 0.25 gallon could have fit, but this is less than 48 hr after pitch, so I’m just hoping it doesn’t rise anymore.
 

DuncB

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Next time spund it with a few psi once the krausen gets high mine currently 48 hours with wyeast 1998 was to the top with krausen after 12 hours and then I put the spund on at a couple of psi and it has backed down to an inch of krausen.
Haven't turned the pressure up yet as I'm not trying to suppress and esters which normally form in the first 72 hours. Once the krausen drops I will let the pressure increase. I normally manage to ferment about 30 litres in the fermentasaurus.
IMG_20210323_144438.jpgIMG_20210323_144446.jpg
 

tld6008

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No pressure, just a line out to purge kegs with the gas blowoff. I put 6 gallons in there, honestly another 0.25 gallon could have fit, but this is less than 48 hr after pitch, so I’m just hoping it doesn’t rise anymore.
I just used this yeast for the first time last night and no activity so far (18 hrs), pitched at 64f. Did you rehydrate the yeast? I normally do with dry yeast but was in a hurry. I will use fermcap to keep the monster subdued.
 

isomerization

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Next time spund it with a few psi once the krausen gets high mine currently 48 hours with wyeast 1998 was to the top with krausen after 12 hours and then I put the spund on at a couple of psi and it has backed down to an inch of krausen.
Haven't turned the pressure up yet as I'm not trying to suppress and esters which normally form in the first 72 hours. Once the krausen drops I will let the pressure increase. I normally manage to ferment about 30 litres in the fermentasaurus.
View attachment 723148View attachment 723149
Wish I had listened :(

Giant mess later, put a spunding valve on at a couple psi, hopefully that tames the beast.
 

isomerization

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I just used this yeast for the first time last night and no activity so far (18 hrs), pitched at 64f. Did you rehydrate the yeast? I normally do with dry yeast but was in a hurry. I will use fermcap to keep the monster subdued.
My experience with this yeast is that it takes off very quickly and aggressively.
 

DuncB

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You can use the giant mess phase to your advantage, if you have gas out into small sterile container you can catch the yeast and you have a top cropped yeast to preserve without opening the vessel. Then put spunding on and get it under control.
 

crusader1612

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For those unaware.
Mangrove Jacks have released a similar yeast to either this or the New England strain.

I used it on the weekend in a variation of Hop Hands, to see the result.
Will report back

FYI the yeast is M66 Hophead Ale
Kegged up and am drinking my "From mah Head to mah Hands"
Hazy Pale Ale

Simcoe and amarillo in th eboil, dryhopped with citra, simcoe and amarillo.

Finished at 1.011
a little drier than I'd like, and its dropped almost perfectly clear after 1 week in the keg, so the juiciness is missing.

It's more low bitterness APA or even XPA, given the colour.

so it's a very nice ,yeast, but I wouldn't call it a New England strain.

A fun experiment none the less.
 

duncan_disorderly

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Kegged up and am drinking my "From mah Head to mah Hands"
Hazy Pale Ale

Simcoe and amarillo in th eboil, dryhopped with citra, simcoe and amarillo.

Finished at 1.011
a little drier than I'd like, and its dropped almost perfectly clear after 1 week in the keg, so the juiciness is missing.

It's more low bitterness APA or even XPA, given the colour.

so it's a very nice ,yeast, but I wouldn't call it a New England strain.

A fun experiment none the less.
Why wouldn't you call it a New England strain? I'm in old England, just wondering.
 

stickyfinger

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i found it to be hazier than US-05. I did a comparison about 1.5 months ago. I'd definitely use it again. It was very juicy for me. If you're losing haze, try cold crashing after primary for like 5-7 days and then dry hop.
 

DuncB

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Manchester is a bit north to be real England !

But all other Englands are pale imitations, just like the other Manchesters.

Verdant definitely well recognised as a NEIPA yeast.
 
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