LA iii vs Kveik in a NEIPA

[knose]

I've only brewed a few neipas with kveik (hornindal) so far, and I think it's great, especially for the fermentation time. However, I find it a bit harsher than neipas brewed with LA iii or equivalent. I haven't had them on draft side by side, so maybe it's just in my head, but I think neipas with London ale iii are softer, have a vanilla character, and are a bit more rounded in general. Maybe I've changed something else that I'm not realizing, but I thought it was worth asking others' opinions.

What are your thoughts on london ale iii vs kveik yeast in New England IPA? Are some kveik better than others?

Cheers

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I got on a NEIPA kick and have done a bunch the last year, I think I have iteration 11 fermenting right now. I did LA3 for a few batches, then Conan, then kveik hornindal. The one going now is A24 dry hop. My thoughts thus far are I think I like them in that order for the style. I plan to keep playing with the kveik because I love how I don't need to care about temp control but I didn't feel like they came out quite as juicy and soft. I got a distinct orangey flavor from them too. Not necessarily bad but I think it might've overwhelmed some of the hop flavor. I know you can make amazing hazy IPAs with kveik though because one of my favorite breweries in Richmond cranks them out.

 

[Dgallo]

I got on a NEIPA kick and have done a bunch the last year, I think I have iteration 11 fermenting right now. I did LA3 for a few batches, then Conan, then kveik hornindal. The one going now is A24 dry hop. My thoughts thus far are I think I like them in that order for the style. I plan to keep playing with the kveik because I love how I don't need to care about temp control but I didn't feel like they came out quite as juicy and soft. I got a distinct orangey flavor from them too. Not necessarily bad but I think it might've overwhelmed some of the hop flavor. I know you can make amazing hazy IPAs with kveik though because one of my favorite breweries in Richmond cranks them out.

I agree here. I’ve been running Hornindal for my last 4 NEipas. It is good but since it’s such a great attenuator and flocs like crazy I feel the mouthfeel on these beers are lacking the true softness. Also if you underpitched and ferment high as recommend the esters will compete heavily with the hop expression. I personally believe I enjoy Voss over Hornindal but it’s still a great yeast and was perfect in the single hop pale I did with Galaxy(paired extremely well together).

My favorite yeast for the style is A24 dryhop

 

[ProblemChild]

I am finding that the attenuation of the Norwegian strains can impact body and subsequently perception of flavor. With low mash temps and base malts with high extract potential, I get very high attenuation - well exceeding stated max.

LA3 has a 75% max predicted attenuation

Conan has an 80% max

Hornindal has an 82 % attenuation

NEIPA benefits from a full mouth-feel.

It seems that an adjustment with the grist (i.e. -more oats, higher mash temp) may help out Hornindal.

 

[Dgallo]

It seems that an adjustment with the grist (i.e. -more oats, higher mash temp) may help out Hornindal.

I tried that will my last run of Hornindal
68% Pilsner
20% Flaked Barley
12% malted oats

Mashed at 154

Went from 1.066 to 1.010 so it was between 85/86 attentuation and even with the higher mash temp and less fermentable grainbill. Just a beast of a stain

 

[ProblemChild]

I tried that will my last run of Hornindal
68% Pilsner
20% Flaked Barley
12% malted oats

Mashed at 154

Went from 1.066 to 1.010 so it was between 85/86 attention and even with the higher mash temp and less fermentable grainbill. Just a beast of a stain

I mashed a rye IPA a few weeks ago at 148 not thinking about the strain. down to 1.005 and still going going to have to jack temps to get it to finish. Most certainly is a beast. One good thing - if you want to do a 10% DIPA, you are in luck. the stuff loves high gravity

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I am finding that the attenuation of the Norwegian strains can impact body and subsequently perception of flavor. With low mash temps and base malts with high extract potential, I get very high attenuation - well exceeding stated max.

LA3 has a 75% max predicted attenuation

Conan has an 80% max

Hornindal has an 82 % attenuation

NEIPA benefits from a full mouth-feel.

It seems that an adjustment with the grist (i.e. -more oats, higher mash temp) may help out Hornindal.

I mash in the mid 150s with it and my attenuation has been high 70s to low 80s I believe. As long as you're not finishing below 1.010 it's probably sufficient residual sugars to achieve the mouthfeel. I used to think my FG had a huge affect on it but I recently tested a beer from one of the most popular(if not most popular) breweries around here making hazy IPAs and it was 1.012, and had great mouthfeel. Soft, smooth, juicy, etc. I know some breweries doing awesome stuff like finishing in the 1.015-1.016 range and some even higher around 1.020. I think the mouthfeel thing has a lot of moving parts.

 

[Dgallo]

I mash in the mid 150s with it and my attenuation has been high 70s to low 80s I believe. As long as you're not finishing below 1.010 it's probably sufficient residual sugars to achieve the mouthfeel. I used to think my FG had a huge affect on it but I recently tested a beer from one of the most popular(if not most popular) breweries around here making hazy IPAs and it was 1.012, and had great mouthfeel. Soft, smooth, juicy, etc. I know some breweries doing awesome stuff like finishing in the 1.015-1.016 range and some even higher around 1.020. I think the mouthfeel thing has a lot of moving parts.

It’s also that fine balance of abv and fg. The higher the abv at a lower fg, the dier less fullbody the beer will come across. For example I’ve had 6.2 beers finish 1.011 and still had great mouthfeel. This last beer is a 1.010 but 7.35% and body just isn’t there

 

[VirginiaHops1]

It’s also that fine balance of abv and fg

ABV absolutely. The beer I checked the gravity on was like 7.8%

 

[Dgallo]

ABV absolutely. The beer I checked the gravity on was like 7.8%

was that a veil beer you tested? And it was 1.012 degassed?

 

[VirginiaHops1]

was that a veil beer you tested? And it was 1.012 degassed?

I live in the DC metro area. It was Ocelot yeah degassed after sitting for a couple days. I think Veil and Triple Crossing are the 2 best in Richmond and possibly the state, I'd be very curious to know what their FG is but I don't get their stuff very often.

 

[ProblemChild]

I mash in the mid 150s with it and my attenuation has been high 70s to low 80s I believe. As long as you're not finishing below 1.010 it's probably sufficient residual sugars to achieve the mouthfeel. I used to think my FG had a huge affect on it but I recently tested a beer from one of the most popular(if not most popular) breweries around here making hazy IPAs and it was 1.012, and had great mouthfeel. Soft, smooth, juicy, etc. I know some breweries doing awesome stuff like finishing in the 1.015-1.016 range and some even higher around 1.020. I think the mouthfeel thing has a lot of moving parts.

It is a balancing act. residual sugars play a part but should not be relied upon for entire experience. flaked and unmalted grains can also be used quite well to that end.

 

[knose]

Didn't think about these yeasts' attenuation and abv greatly impacting to mouthfeel, but that makes a lot of sense. Maybe backsweetening or adding lactose or other unfermentable sugar would get these closer.

I'll probably move back to London ale 3 for neipas, but want to try rva Manchester based on Janish's blog. Will probably try a24 as well. It's hard not to want to keep using kveik with that time to packaging, ferment temp, and ease of pitching, though. Anyone use kveik effectively in darker beers, maybe at lower ferment temps?

 

[gifty74]

I love La3 but just can’t get that to finish below 1.020 no matter what I try (mash temp, starter size, amylase enzyme). I’ve been listening to a few podcasts this week and a lot of the successful guys doing NE ipas are using a portion of lactose. Worth a try experimenting to gain some body back, which is what they are also using it for.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I love La3 but just can’t get that to finish below 1.020 no matter what I try (mash temp, starter size, amylase enzyme). I’ve been listening to a few podcasts this week and a lot of the successful guys doing NE ipas are using a portion of lactose. Worth a try experimenting to gain some body back, which is what they are also using it for.

You can't get it to finish below 1.020 and you feel like you have body issues? My LA3 batches finished between 1.015-1.020 I believe, and were really good. I've never used lactose in my beer but every commercial beer I've tried that used it I haven't liked. You definitely don't need lactose to achieve great body/mouthfeel.