GrizzlyBier
Active Member
I've read that Krausen falling back into the beer imparts harsh flavors. My question is how do you avoid it? Whether in a carboy or a conical, how is one supposed to remove that krausen?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Krausen falling into beer, how to avoid?
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I have also never heard that. Some people skim the krausen but I think that is mostly for harvesting yeast.
In 99 batches, I have never worried about it and a good percentage of my beers I like better than average commercial beers.
In 99 batches, I have never worried about it and a good percentage of my beers I like better than average commercial beers.
I call bulls**t... I have heard brewers collecting krausen as a yeast collection method, but never heard that it somehow avoided harsh flavors.
jack13
Well-Known Member
You seem to have posed that question under the assumption that it's probably BS but you're just checking for others' opinions.
If that's the case, I agree with the implict premise of your post. Unprocessed ********.
sandyeggoxj
Well-Known Member
So WHERE did you read that? The provenance of that statement matters.
flars
Well-Known Member
I've read the same thing. The krausen will impart a harsh bitter flavor to the beer. The article was dated in the same time period I read another article that the fermenting beer must be racked to a secondary within 4 to 5 days to avoid off flavors from the dying yeast.
Both are myths.
Both are myths.
I've also read that homebrew will make you go blind. I call BS asrj ewouqwe blaserj tii.
andrewmaixner
Well-Known Member
I have heard it multiple times, but never with a scientific study or source cited. I swirl the fermentor and make it all settle out, and have never had issues.
FloppyKnockers
Well-Known Member
The sure-fire way to prevent it is to not pitch the yeast.
Ike
nOob for life
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Have I mentioned lately how much I FREAKIN' LOVE HBT?! (hint: all the dang time)
I tried washing yeast a couple times and... failed... miserably. I was never able to select for exactly the right layer in the washed column of yeast/trub, and the results were always dismal. Having read this tread, I popped over to the search function for a bit and have found myself a brand new method of recycling yeast!
BOOMSAUCE. Thanks!
ETA: Although, I did read this immediately after noticing the krausen on my most recent batch has dropped. Oh well, next time...
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What am I missing here?
Krausen skimming for yeast harvesting seems very inefficient. Why upset an active fermentation?
You would still need to separate the gunk - extraneous wort protein, hop resins, and dead yeast.
Think I'll stick to harvesting from the bottom of the fermenter - when the yeast is done........
To the OP - krausen = good.
Krausen skimming for yeast harvesting seems very inefficient. Why upset an active fermentation?
You would still need to separate the gunk - extraneous wort protein, hop resins, and dead yeast.
Think I'll stick to harvesting from the bottom of the fermenter - when the yeast is done........
To the OP - krausen = good.
I prevent it from falling back in by inverting the bucket above my head when I feel it's near the danger zone. That way gravity is on my side.
Hashtag kreausen danger challenge
Top cropping is as far as I'm aware one of the commoner forms of yeast harvesting and gives you the healthiest yeast with no detriment to the ferment.
In reference to the original post I think they might be thinking of the Ring of gunk left by kreausen which is said to be bitter and shouldn't be put back into the mix, and I can vouch for it not tasting nice, but it's not something you have to do anything about either way.
@divrack , Yes this occurs to me as well. And most of us have probably seen some thread concerning either bitter beer or warning to avoid harvesting this brown sludge, some even suggesting removal with a sanitized spoon, etc., blah, blah, blah... Nothing to support but the bad mojo, as far as I can recall. I don't feel any need to avoid it cause it sticks so well to the sides of the fermenter. I will admit, if I did harvest krausen, I would avoid the brown, sludgy spots, just in case!
oceanic_brew
Well-Known Member
You will not upset an active fermentation if you do it right. It needs to be done at the perfect time in fermentation, and you only harvest a certain amount.
Without doing some research to confirm my thoughts on the matter if you top crop yeast at say 3-4 days in when yeast has long ago completed its growth phase then you’ll be left with plenty of healthy yeast to do the job. The main fermentation that required a certain amount of yeast is complete and all that’s left is for the yeast to clean up after itself and flocculate. You definitely would not want to harvest yeast early in fermentation.
When you top crop yeast I believe you remove the very “crust” darker part of the Krausen, underneath you will have a perfect blanket of very healthy yeast. Harvesting and washing a yeast cake achieves this same thing although you aren’t selecting only the strongest cells this way. The reason we have brewers yeast to begin with is sort of in line with this process. Brewers continuously over decades harvested yeast from the top of fermentation’s, the strongest yeast are the ones likely to be sticking around longer and not flocculating out, therefor the brewers were again and again selecting these strongest yeast and ones most fit for this environment. At westvleteren in Belgium they will only bottle with fresh top cropped yeast.
This is what you’re doing when you top crop. You’ll find most Belgian brewers top cropping yeast. In a beer that has such yeast derived qualities it makes perfect sense.
I hope I’m getting my BLAM and “Yeast” regurgitation right.
Morrey
Well-Known Member
I have read that you wouldn't purposely want to scrape off the krausen "ring" on the sides of a fermenter and purposely put it back into your beer when racking. Tasting that krausen ring does taste astringent and bitter to some degree, so I guess this is what we are talking about.
lump42
The Lajestic Vantrashell of Lob
The only time I've heard something similar is if a blow off occurs. The logic I had heard was that hop resins would adhere to the yeast and proteins in the krausen and if a blow off occured you could lose IBUs.
I've read that the dark colored gunk that typically sticks to the sides of the fermentor is bitter and that one should avoid knocking that into the beer. So it is not that krausen shouldn't go into the beer it is this brown goo that shouldn't, and is easily avoided by just letting the process naturally take place.
cloudybrewer
Well-Known Member
"Attaching a blow-off tube is advisable and necessary to remove the brown Kraeusen. The latter gives the beer a harsh taste if it is allowed to fall back into the beer."
This was taken from Braukaiser's page on brewing hefewiezen in the beginning of the Primary Fermentation section. I dont know if it's true, so I won't speculate.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?
title=Weissbier_Hell
What does everyone think?
This was taken from Braukaiser's page on brewing hefewiezen in the beginning of the Primary Fermentation section. I dont know if it's true, so I won't speculate.
http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?
title=Weissbier_Hell
What does everyone think?
Ding Ding Ding. I think this is what the op was reffering to. It is the "krausen ring". It is that dark nasty ring you see around your fermenter just above the wort line. Some claim this gives an off flavor. I cannot confirm or deny this being correct info.
Either the layer of krausen across the top or the ring around the side of the fermenter... Just leave it alone.
The layer will drop back. The debris in it will settle to the bottom. AFAIK that will not give you any bitter flavors. I have never heard that it would and I never do anything with it.
The ring around the sides will stick there and you don't have to worry about it falling back into the beer.
The layer will drop back. The debris in it will settle to the bottom. AFAIK that will not give you any bitter flavors. I have never heard that it would and I never do anything with it.
The ring around the sides will stick there and you don't have to worry about it falling back into the beer.
str1p3s
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I think it might be an interesting experiment to brew the same beer with a large head space and air lock and one with little to no head space and a blow off tube. It seems like that would effectively do what the OP is talking about, that is, not allowing the krausen to fall back into the beer as it will almost all be blown off.
Would you supply a source for this? I've never read it, wonder what I might be missing here.
cloudybrewer
Well-Known Member
Interesting. I don't know everything about brewing--far from it--but I've never heard anything about "removing the brown Kraeusen." And using a blowoff tube to do it? It's as if the author wants a blowout, something I think most of us would avoid.
The page was last modified in 2010, makes me wonder if the material is dated--or if it's only relevant to the style.
If the krausen is high enough that you need a blowoff tube the brown substance will stick to the shoulders and neck of the carboy. So, just leaving it alone is fine. Attempting to syphon or scoop it out is just an invitation for contamination. I'm in the leave it be camp!
GrizzlyBier
Active Member
Can't remember right now...
GrizzlyBier
Active Member
Wow, so many replies. Thanks! I read it online so it must be true! 
No, I just don't remember and it doesn't matter because I agree with the consensus that it's not necessary or even desirable. I was wondering because my Maibock has a bitter bite at first, which ain't all bad, but then this cloying aftertaste appears on the roof of my mouth and it's no bueno. It's about a 40 IBU, OG 070. Beersmith's estimated OG was 081. I screwed up my volumes and had an extra gallon of wort that I couldn't boil.
It was in the conical fermenter for 5 weeks hooked to a glycol chiller keeping it at 50F. When it stabilized at 1.020, I kegged it (a week in kegs now) and am lagering at 38F. Somebody please for the love of Bacchus tell me it'll be alright. It will lager out right? Probably have to wait another month?
No, I just don't remember and it doesn't matter because I agree with the consensus that it's not necessary or even desirable. I was wondering because my Maibock has a bitter bite at first, which ain't all bad, but then this cloying aftertaste appears on the roof of my mouth and it's no bueno. It's about a 40 IBU, OG 070. Beersmith's estimated OG was 081. I screwed up my volumes and had an extra gallon of wort that I couldn't boil. It was in the conical fermenter for 5 weeks hooked to a glycol chiller keeping it at 50F. When it stabilized at 1.020, I kegged it (a week in kegs now) and am lagering at 38F. Somebody please for the love of Bacchus tell me it'll be alright. It will lager out right? Probably have to wait another month?
What was the aftertaste like? Medicinal, grassy, vomitous, estery? Some off-flavors will disappear, it just depends on what caused them.
Bitter cloying taste could be a lot of things.Wow, so many replies. Thanks! I read it online so it must be true!
It was in the conical fermenter for 5 weeks hooked to a glycol chiller keeping it at 50F. When it stabilized at 1.020, I kegged it (a week in kegs now) and am lagering at 38F. Somebody please for the love of Bacchus tell me it'll be alright. It will lager out right? Probably have to wait another month?
If it's hop particles and or acetaldehyde it will lager out, you can read up on what that tastes like. I get a kind of tingly feeling on the tongue like tangy sweets from my overly young beers and lager sometimes. Think it's acetaldehyde.
Hop particles taste like eating a hop. Bitter but also astringent and mouth puckering
GrizzlyBier
Active Member
Yes, the tangy buzz that hangs around a little too long. Thanks bro!
GrizzlyBier
Active Member
It's bitter, like hoppy but kind of stays on the roof of my mouth. Also a kind of tangy buzz on the tip of my tongue. divrack suggested acetaldehyde. I'm getting out my Noonan book.
GrizzlyBier
Active Member
So I just read in Noonan's New Brewing Lager Beer that the "brown scum" produced during low kraeusen is the stuff you don't want to fall back in.
"If oxidized scum is allowed to fall back into the ferment, it will impart harsh, bitter tastes to the beer and provide a nutrient source for bacterial contaminants."
Note that it says oxidized scum. Wouldn't the available oxygen in your fermenter be relatively low? You could pop the lid on a conical and skim it, but would it be worth the risk of oxidation or contamination? Maybe do it quick like.
"If oxidized scum is allowed to fall back into the ferment, it will impart harsh, bitter tastes to the beer and provide a nutrient source for bacterial contaminants."
Note that it says oxidized scum. Wouldn't the available oxygen in your fermenter be relatively low? You could pop the lid on a conical and skim it, but would it be worth the risk of oxidation or contamination? Maybe do it quick like.
pinchegil
Strangedog Brewing
Another viscious rumor spread by the must secondary police
I don't think this is a myth. It just doesn't apply to homebrew because of fermenter volumn/ geometry. The first material ejected by the yeast is supposedly bitter, and first skimmings of the Krausen are to stop this falling in the beer. Cropping is performed after this. It doesn't matter on the homebrew scale because the material sticks to the side of the fermenter. If you was doing a large square fermenter you would need to skim
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Dammit !! I heard excessive masturbation would make you go blind. So I switched to homebrew. I'm fooked.
