Kegging - Crazy Foam / Flow - Tried Longer Beer Line Already

[rohovie]

Hey Everyone,

I'm fairly new to kegging, just kegged my second batch. Both batches are crazy foamy, after my first batch, I decided to switch out my 5' 3/16" beer line to a 20' line. The longer hose made very little improvement and am now stumped about why this is happening.

I am using a pin lock corny keg and have it cooled to about 34-35 degrees. Both beer lines are vinyl tubing with a picnic tap.

After fermentation, I moved the beer to the keg and I forced carbed both batched at about 30 psi for 24 hours, purged the keg, then set it at about 10 psi. The first batch I did the initial 30 psi carb through the liquid connect to get the gas to the bottom of the keg and through the beer, the second batch I hooked up the gas to the gas connect for the carbing (thought the first one might be over carbed so I tried something different).

When I tried to pour the beer at 10 psi with the 5' line, the beer/foam came flying out like a fire hose, the pour was 100% foam which settled down to about 20% beer when the foam disappears. When poured at 10 psi with the 20' line, it was still all foam but didn't pour out as fast.

I went through the first keg by pouring the beer into a jug at 10 psi then into a glass when settled down, wasn't ideal. I'm starting to go through the second keg by purging the air from the keg, turning the regulator right down to basically 0 psi (doesn't even register on the gauge) then pouring at that pressure, then bumping back to 10 psi. It pours at this pressure with a nice head, but doing this is also not very ideal.

I'm looking at suggestions or advise on how to balance my system to be able to pour at around 10 psi. Can it be a bad regulator? Bad gas (I bought my kegerator used with old couple year old gas in it that I'm trying to get through)? Anything else it can be? Am I carbing wrong?

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in advance.
Mike

 

[Roland_deschain]

It sounds simplistic, but are you opening the picnic tap all the way when you squeeze it? Mine will foam up if you squeeze too slowly.

 

[rohovie]

Yes (I think so), with the 5’ line, I could barely press it down before my glass was all full, with the 20’ line, I pressed fully down as it filled up.

I have another tap, I might try that to eliminate the picnic tap causing the problem.

Thanks for the suggestion. I’ll report back!

 

[bigdawg86]

Is your regulator working? If it's pushing beer that hard it sounds greatly over carbed / pressurized. You may have to burp your keg multiple times to get it to equalize. At 10PSI I can run a picnic tap just fine, usually I use 7 feet of (I think) 3/16" line with my kerlick 630ss... I tried the 30PSI trick with a IPA I have and after several days / pints I am still having more head than I'd like even while at 10PSI.

 

[rohovie]

I tried with my other tap at 10 psi. It came pouring out pretty good and not much different than the picnic tap. I’ve attached a picture showing the pour.

 

[rohovie]

I have a video of my pour with the picnic tap and 20’ line, but apparently it’s too large in size to attach to this thread, so I uploaded to YouTube.

For the purpose of the video and lack of hands, I didn’t tilt the glass at all, the pour could have been better. Does that pressure seem about right for 10 psi? Do you think my regulator might be the issue?

Is there anything that could be wrong with my keg? It’s a used pin lock from Austin Home Brew. Any flow restrictions in the tube or posts/poppets causing the pressure to be greater?

Thanks again
Mike

 

[day_trippr]

Is the beer line kept cold between pours or is it sitting at ambient? And was that glass at room temp?

The beginning of that pour shows a lot of CO2 breaking out at the faucet spout, but the last couple of ounces seem pretty clear.
If there's 20' of line behind that faucet but it's all sitting at room temperature, there's a gas law that pretty much guarantees there will be CO2 breaking out of solution in the lines until they get chilled down to the beer temperature inside the keg.

As well, it looks like there's explosive breakout in the glass. A warm dry glass will do that.
I always rinse my glass with cold water before filling it just on GPs...

Cheers!

 

[rohovie]

Thanks for the input, maybe that could be the cause. In this situation, the beer line is probably a bit warm because I had it out to switch the taps over. Usually the beer line is in the fridge with the keg and co2 tank. My beer glass was room temperature. I will try again tomorrow with the beer line at the fridge temperature.

When I had my 5’ line on my first keg, it was always cooled in the fridge with the keg. That didn’t seem to make a difference, but my glass was always room temperature.

Thanks again,
Mike

 

[Andy_C]

Carb at 12 psi for 1 week. Then 9 or 10 to serve.

 

[Yooper]

Your vinyl line- is it actual "beer line" with thick walls, or is it vinyl line from a place like Home Depot?

 

[rohovie]

Carb at 12 psi for 1 week. Then 9 or 10 to serve.

I’m going to try that method next time. I was rushed to finish the beer by this weekend for this batch.

 

[rohovie]

Your vinyl line- is it actual "beer line" with thick walls, or is it vinyl line from a place like Home Depot?

My 5’ line was actual thick walled beer line. My 20’ line was just cheap hardware thin vinyl water line (to try something new).

Does the line make much of a difference? Should I try new thick beer line?

 

[Yooper]

Yep, it makes a HUGE difference. It's all about restriction. The home depot vinyl lines are thin walled, and means that it's a bit flexible and does not restrict the flow the same way, if that makes sense.

My 5’ line was actual thick walled beer line. My 20’ line was just cheap hardware thin vinyl water line (to try something new).

Does the line make much of a difference? Should I try new thick beer line?

 

[Andy_C]

I’m going to try that method next time. I was rushed to finish the beer by this weekend for this batch.

I’ve tried the fast way too and it never works for me

 

[jalc6927]

May be bad QD

This is a problem I had just recently

It didn’t sit right on poppet

 

[rohovie]

May be bad QD

This is a problem I had just recently

It didn’t sit right on poppet

QD as in quick disconnect? If so, I do have a spare one, I will check that today or tomorrow when I buy some new thick beer line. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[jalc6927]

Yes that is correct

Sometimes they don’t seat right or you may not have it all the way on

 

[charger]

Seems to be flowing fast for just 10 psi too, especially with 20 feet of line. As yooper said, if it’s not beer line, the low restriction would mean fast pours and seemingly more turbulence on the exit at the faucet causing the foaming. I had minimal foam issues at 34F with 7’ PVC free beer line and picnic tap at upwards of 18psi for a Berliner. Zero issues for standard carbed beers. I have a second 7’ line that is the silver ultra barrier, or whatever it is, and it flows a little quicker with the lower restriction, still minimal issues for normal carbed beers around 12 psi.

 

[sakeyfour]

I have had a few kegs that poured all foam. Some took a major cleaning of my kegs and lines to fix. Little bits of junk in the QD and the springs in the posts. Also had a worn o-ring, just enough to let in a little air when pouring but no noticeable leak when sitting( took me 2 kegs worth to find that one)

 

[brewbama]

Also Ck for dirty lines, poppet, post, o-rings, picnic tap, etc. Completely disassemble each for cleaning.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Are you venting or purging the keg when reducing the regulator pressure.

When you lower the regulator you MUST vent the keg through the pressure release to lower the actual pressure in the keg.

 

[AnOldUR]

When you vent, it releases head space pressure, but the volumes of CO2 don't change too much. The head space then equalizes to a higher pressure. It takes several times to stabilize to a lower volume of CO2.

 

[charger]

OP stated that he purged the keg after holding at 30 psi for 24 hours. In my experience, 30 psi at 24 hours won’t overcarbonate on my system, but maybe it could happen with his system.

Purging multiple times after the pressure equalizes would only be necessary if the beer is over carbed.

OP, how is the carbonation on the liquid after your pour?

 

[stz]

I've got three kegs on exactly the same system with exactly the same pressure. Two pour great, one fobs up. I'm dealing with it for now, but I believe that when I strip it down I'll find hop bits in the dip tube or poppet.

 

[rohovie]

OP stated that he purged the keg after holding at 30 psi for 24 hours. In my experience, 30 psi at 24 hours won’t overcarbonate on my system, but maybe it could happen with his system.

Purging multiple times after the pressure equalizes would only be necessary if the beer is over carbed.

OP, how is the carbonation on the liquid after your pour?

You are correct, I purged the keg after the initial 30 psi for 24 hours period. I’m now having to purge the keg when I’m wanting to pour a beer after it’s been sitting at 10 psi, reduce the pressure to basically nothing on the regulator, then bump it back up to 10 psi afterwards to store until my next beer.

The carbonation of the beer after poured is perfect. Doesn’t seem flat or over carbonated. It’s right where I like it.

Before my first batch, then again before my second batch, I made sure that my keg was very clean. I have new rubber seals on the lid, posts and dip tubes. My poppets appear really clean, however, I don’t believe my poppets come out easily as they are the style that has the three legs flared out against the inside of the post (if I am wrong, please connect). I also read somewhere that sometimes the dip tube on the style of keg I have can cause problems with it being too close to the bottom of the keg. It is the straight dip tube that fits into a little pocket in the bottom of the keg. I read somewhere that putting a little bend into the tube may help with a foam issue.

I am going to go to the local home brew store this morning to get some actual thick beer line to see if that makes a difference for my party tonight! Otherwise I’ll just lower the pressure before the party then bump up again after.

Thanks again for everyone’s help.

 

[charger]

When you remove your posts, the poppets, regardless of keg style I believe, can be pushed out of the posts. I replaced my poppets when I got my used kegs, just felt like it would be best to replace with all the other gaskets. It the gaskets on the poppets are torn or if their is gunk/hops stick up in the post, that could be an issue.

Completely disassemble your kegs and clean everything (tubes, gaskets, poppets, etc.) and report back.

 

[117thBrewer]

I had this same problem with my first 2 attempts at kegging. I found that my regulator was broken and was reading 20-30 psi too low (So I set it 20-30 psi too high). Shot out like a fire hose. Hope this helps.

 

[Splyntr]

One tip, that I read in Zymurgy a while back is to use a piece of cleaned and sanitized weed wacker line in your party tap tubing to restrict the beer flow. You just cut it to the same length as your tubing and install it inside the tube. I've been using this tip for a year or two and it works great. I've attached a picture.

 

[rohovie]

I had this same problem with my first 2 attempts at kegging. I found that my regulator was broken and was reading 20-30 psi too low (So I set it 20-30 psi too high). Shot out like a fire hose. Hope this helps.

I honestly think this is my problem after talking with the local home brew store.

I just bought 15’ of thick 2.2 psi/ft restriction beer line from the home brew store. Gonna try this tonight to see if it helps at all. If not, I’m going to replace my regulator.

In theory, if I understand correctly, with 15’ of beer line with 2.2 psi/ft line restriction, I should barely be able to push out 30 psi of beer out the line. If I can, I’m thinking my regulator is reading way low like yours.

Thanks for everyone help.

 

[day_trippr]

Don't believe the "2.2 psi/ft" thing, it's baloney at the flow rates we dispense beer.
3/16" ID solid pvc is much closer to 1 psi/ft at 10-11 psi...

Cheers!

 

[Darryl J Gore]

I know this is a bit late, but did you get it sorted?

You know what it could be is it is actually undercarbonated to the pressure on the regulator, this can cause foam too.

Sometimes people say it's carbed to 12 psi but they have to turn down the serving pressure to 8psi to pour without foam. Which in reality means the beer is only carbed to 8psi. And reducing the headspace serving pressure to 8 balances it.

If the beer in your beer line has no pockets or spaces of gas, is at a good length, and it's cold, towers cold etc.., but you still get foaming, it is due to undercarbonation. Serving pressure is fine, its holding the beer in the line under pressure and therefore no voids.

When you open the faucet, and the beer headspace/ serving pressure is higher than the beer carbonation pressure, you get a burst of foam before a good remaining pour.

So just leave it alone for a few days to carb and equalise and should be good to go.

Darryl

 

[rohovie]

I know this is a bit late, but did you get it sorted?

You know what it could be is it is actually undercarbonated to the pressure on the regulator, this can cause foam too.

Sometimes people say it's carbed to 12 psi but they have to turn down the serving pressure to 8psi to pour without foam. Which in reality means the beer is only carbed to 8psi. And reducing the headspace serving pressure to 8 balances it.

If the beer in your beer line has no pockets or spaces of gas, is at a good length, and it's cold, towers cold etc.., but you still get foaming, it is due to undercarbonation. Serving pressure is fine, its holding the beer in the line under pressure and therefore no voids.

When you open the faucet, and the beer headspace/ serving pressure is higher than the beer carbonation pressure, you get a burst of foam before a good remaining pour.

So just leave it alone for a few days to carb and equalise and should be good to go.

Darryl

Thanks Darryl,

The new lines helped out a bit, but I’m still pouring out a ton of foam. The beer has had plenty of opportunity to equalize, but hasn’t. I’m really thinking there is something wrong with my regulator. Next batch I am purchasing a new one.

Mike

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Get a sanke keg and flow control taps with 5 ft lines and be done with it. Or continue fighting the foam. This comes from someone who has used cornys and gave up fighting.

 

[okiedog]

I know this post is a little old, but thought I would ask my question here anyway. The question I have relates to the restriction calculation for head pressure: If there is an up and down (run across hallway ceiling), does the standard calculation of .5 psi/ft. X elevation difference from keg center to tap still apply? I am thinking that the head pressure for the rise that is above tap level, and the drop back down to tap level would balance out. Is this in fact the case?

 

[day_trippr]

That is correct, it's the net change in elevation from end to end that matters...

Cheers!

 

[william_shakes_beer]

I had the same problems as the OP until I switched from 3/16 Bev tubing to 5/16. Do the calculator and add 5 feet to the beer lines.

 

[okiedog]

That is correct, it's the net change in elevation from end to end that matters...

Cheers!

Thank you. I just wanted someone to confirm that. The only other question I have is bends. If not exceeding the manufacturer recommended bend radius (24"), is there restriction for the bends?

 

[day_trippr]

24"? What are you using for beer line that has that high a minimum bend radius spec?

In any case, no line length calculator allows for tubing that has "lost its cross-section", so to speak - they all presume essentially a straight line end to end with perfect inside diameter and focus on the simpler physics. To add to that, I don't believe any calculator includes restrictions imposed by the standard set of fittings to get from keg to glass. I imagine bend effects would be swamped out by the restriction imposed by a keg connector, for instance..

I reckon with all that out there one could simply dismiss bend effects entirely...

Cheers!

 

[okiedog]

It's a 6 flavor trunk, glycol cooled. Not my system (I wish). Thanks so much for your input.

 

[millsbrew]

The issue is your picnic taps not your kegs as others suggested. Whenever I bring my kegs to a party and remove them from my keezer, they are always super foamy. Same tube length, same pressure, only difference is the taps.