is there a real substitute for llalemand kolsch yeast

[AlexKay]

Results on the split batch? What was the final result with the Koln vs M54?

I am still on the hunt for a Kolsch yeast.

All done, all lagering. My hope is to bring them to my local club mid-July and get other opinions, too.

That said, I’ve tasted the M54 just by itself. The sulfur seems to have cleared nicely, and I was pretty impressed with the taste. As a mostly clean, slightly estery hybrid yeast, I’m hopeful.

But I’ll post the side-by-side in a few more weeks.

 

[AlexKay]

All right, I've been slow to get back to this thread. I brought all 5 beers to my club for tasting, and had people fill out forms. Unfortunately, there were only 5 of us there that day, so it's not like I can present statistics that would mean anything. But here's a summary of the results.

Recipe and process:
45% Pilsner (Crisp Hana Heritage)
45% Vienna (Sugar Creek)
10% white wheat (Sugar Creek)
2:1 Saaz:Lubelski @ 60 and 5 minutes
1/2 pack dry yeast or full pack liquid yeast for ~1 gallon
Fermented 2 weeks at 60 F
OG 1.046, FG 1.008, 5.0% ABV
cold conditioned for ~2 months

The available "check all that apply" (CATA) descriptors were red apple, bubblegum, sulfur, green apple, clove, acid/sour, tropical fruit, pepper, neutral, banana, and alcohol.

Wyeast 2565
CATA: neutral (2), green apple, red apple, sulfur, pepper, banana, alcohol
Comments: hazy, bready, sulfur, grainy
In discussion, most of us agreed that this yeast brought malt flavors forward the most.

Omega Kolsch II
CATA: neutral (4), pepper (2), green apple, sour
Comments: bready, good German hop finish, mineral-y aroma, grainy flavor, boring

Wyeast 1007
CATA: neutral (4), red apple (3), pepper, tropical fruit, banana
Comments: not as bready, decent German hop finish, almost no aroma, very neutral flavor

Mangrove Jack M54
CATA: sulfur (4), red apple (2), green apple (2), neutral (2), pepper
Comments: flavor has slight sulfur taste in finish, clear, sulfur flavor,

Lallemand Köln
CATA: neutral (4), bubblegum, green apple, red apple, clove
Comments: honey, light diacetyl, grainy flavor, neutral flavor profile but strong aroma, don't pick up hop flavor
In discussion, many noticed some diacetyl (not me, I am blind)

Ranking as a neutral ale yeast (4 points = best, 0 = worst, from each person)
Kolsch II (15)
1007 (13)
Koln (9)
2565 (7)
M54 (6)

Ranking overall
2565 (12)
Kolsch II (10)
1007 (10)
M54 (10)
Koln (8)

Conclusions:

• While the above might suggest there were significant differences, everyone agreed that the four Kolsch yeasts produced very similar beers, with differences notable only because they were being tasted side-to-side.
• Everyone also agreed that M54 was an outlier, with notably different fermentation character (which some liked and some didn't.)
• 2565 left the beer noticeably hazy, even after 2 months cold. M54 was brilliant, distinctly clearer than the others.
• I was surprised to find that the Koln threw some diacetyl, as I'd never heard that criticism before, but (as mentioned) I am completely insensitive to it, so perhaps I wouldn't know.
• I happened to like M54 rather a bit, and will probably use it for hybrid beers such as California Common (no surprise, as this is how they brand it!) But the sulfur is notable even after extended cold conditioning, and it does not produce a typical Kolsch.

 

[IrondaleBrewing]

Thanks so much for sharing this!

 

[fluketamer]

great post .

i have brewed the same grain bill 90 /10 pilsner vienna with perle and tet with koln and 2565 a few times now. usually around 62 degrees or so.

they both make really good beers.

the koln is a little blander but clears quicker.
the 2565 is more kolschy with a very slight white grape/ pear hint. it alos brings out the malt better imo.

but if the koln was avaialble i would be using that more often because dry yeast is easier.

and they are both very close. like said above hard to tel them apart if not side by side.

they both make very clean beer.

 

[cactusgarrett]

but if the koln was avaialble i would be using that more often because dry yeast is easier.

I just placed an online order for a few sachets, so there maybe some inventory floating around still. I plan on massively overbuilding starters to bank this as best and as long as possible.

 

[fluketamer]

I just placed an online order for a few sachets, so there maybe some inventory floating around still. I plan on massively overbuilding starters to bank this as best and as long as possible.

i dont believe you. lol. proof or it didnt happen. lots of us have been looking for a few months for this yeast . its gone.

edit: i take it back somehow i see a few packs online

 

[fluketamer]

https://www.wildwesthomebrewsupply....H_M6na5bFsVgDBUANiFS0Jao8cCSmgLsCrlXrfYRlQuYC

 

[jdubdvdt]

I just placed an online order for a few sachets, so there maybe some inventory floating around still. I plan on massively overbuilding starters to bank this as best and as long as possible.

great post .

i have brewed the same grain bill 90 /10 pilsner vienna with perle and tet with koln and 2565 a few times now. usually around 62 degrees or so.

they both make really good beers.

the koln is a little blander but clears quicker.
the 2565 is more kolschy with a very slight white grape/ pear hint. it alos brings out the malt better imo.

but if the koln was avaialble i would be using that more often because dry yeast is easier.

and they are both very close. like said above hard to tel them apart if not side by side.

they both make very clean beer.

I have two sachets of koln I'll be using to put in my yeast bank. Wish they still had it... Won't be as easy as dry, but my yeast bank continues to grow.

 

[MaxStout]

If any Koln is still out there it might be close to or past its expiration. If stored in the fridge it should be ok. Or pitch 2 packets, just to be sure.

 

[rtstrider]

I have two sachets of koln I'll be using to put in my yeast bank. Wish they still had it... Won't be as easy as dry, but my yeast bank continues to grow.

I've banked up Koln. My experience is it's not that great from dried state regardless of pitching rate. The initial lag time is a good 48 to 72 hours. It does step up well after that though. It banks well and there is very similar lag time on the initial propagation step from the bank. After that though it fires off fairly quickly and isn't bad at all. I can see why Lallemand chose the strain as it's a very good liquid strain. Dried...Not so much

 

[cactusgarrett]

i dont believe you. lol. proof or it didnt happen. lots of us have been looking for a few months for this yeast . its gone.

edit: i take it back somehow i see a few packs online

https://www.swggbrew.com/product/lallemand-koln-kolsch-ale-yeast-copy/

Although, after pulling the trigger i realized, as @MaxStout said, it'll need to be stepped up from a starter anyway. Thus making it no different from a liquid pitch. At that point I realized I could have just ordered a pack of tried and true liquid from WY or WL.

 

[jdubdvdt]

I've banked up Koln. My experience is it's not that great from dried state regardless of pitching rate. The initial lag time is a good 48 to 72 hours. It does step up well after that though. It banks well and there is very similar lag time on the initial propagation step from the bank. After that though it fires off fairly quickly and isn't bad at all. I can see why Lallemand chose the strain as it's a very good liquid strain. Dried...Not so much

Good to know. I have not used it enough to really remember the difference. I took a hiatus for a few years. Speaking of, Hiatus Brewing in Ocala has a really good Kolsch style beer.

 

[Broothru]

I’ve brewed a lot of Kolsch and Helles over the years, most of them quite good yet they failed to wow the judges in comps. I’ve been to Munich and Koln many times and consumed many beers from the renowned breweries, so I have a good handle on what they should taste like.

In a just completed comp I entered one of each, still trying to capture the magic. Both recipes were my ‘old reliables’ with two minor tweaks: both were pressure fermented at 1 BAR, 65F, and I added ALDC enzyme with the yeast pitch. The Kolsch used Lallemand NovaLager hybrid dry yeast and took Best of Show. The Helles used WLP-808 Mythical Hammer hybrid lager yeast, and won Blue Ribbon in class. Both of them exceeded my expectations.

The wide temperature range of both new yeasts allows even delicate beers like Helles and Kolsch to be fermented quite warm, and don’t require pressure fermentation. Both produced excellent beers from my otherwise average recipes. The ALDC may also have contributed by eliminating any trace of diacetyl. Versatile, extremely clean and crisp, drops clear quickly with minimal Silica Gel.

I even harvested the dry Lallemand Nova-Lager and used it in a Falstaff ‘tribute’ beer, and I’ve never reused a dry yeast before. It worked great in the second fermentation. Both these yeasts are fantastic.

 

[AmarikinBrew]

I’ve brewed a lot of Kolsch and Helles over the years, most of them quite good yet they failed to wow the judges in comps. I’ve been to Munich and Koln many times and consumed many beers from the renowned breweries, so I have a good handle on what they should taste like.

In a just completed comp I entered one of each, still trying to capture the magic. Both recipes were my ‘old reliables’ with two minor tweaks: both were pressure fermented at 1 BAR, 65F, and I added ALDC enzyme with the yeast pitch. The Kolsch used Lallemand NovaLager hybrid dry yeast and took Best of Show. The Helles used WLP-808 Mythical Hammer hybrid lager yeast, and won Blue Ribbon in class. Both of them exceeded my expectations.

The wide temperature range of both new yeasts allows even delicate beers like Helles and Kolsch to be fermented quite warm, and don’t require pressure fermentation. Both produced excellent beers from my otherwise average recipes. The ALDC may also have contributed by eliminating any trace of diacetyl. Versatile, extremely clean and crisp, drops clear quickly with minimal Silica Gel.

I even harvested the dry Lallemand Nova-Lager and used it in a Falstaff ‘tribute’ beer, and I’ve never reused a dry yeast before. It worked great in the second fermentation. Both these yeasts are fantastic.

Falstaff ‘tribute’ beer?

 

[Broothru]

Falstaff ‘tribute’ beer?

Yeah, Standard American Beer is the BJCP category. Typical of beers brewed by the German emigres who replicated Continental lagers with indigenous North American ingredients, like 6-row barley, corn or rice adjuncts, Nugget and Cluster hops.

Beers like Schlitz, Busch, Miller, Hamm’s. The recipe was an adaptation of a “Can You Brew It” clone of Falstaff, just like my Dad used to drink on the weekends when I was growing up in the 50s and 60s. It turned out great: crisp, clear, clean, crushable.

Had a good time designing it, enjoyed brewing it, love drinking it. ‘Tribute’ beer.

 

[fluketamer]

update on this yeast. i dont freeze yeast. when i harvest i simply pour all or most of the cake into mason jars with a little beer on top . sometimes diluted beer if i have to add a little water to loosen it up.

i had 4 oz of slurry that was almost 2 months old. i pitched this into 1 gallon of wort alongside 5 gallons of wort with 2565.
after 3 weeks at 62 degrees the lallemand finished quicker and cleared much quicker and is basically ready to drink. it did have almost one day lag tho.

it is definately less kolsch flavored than the 2565 but it is super clean and a very neutral flavored yeast.

it is the cleanest dry yeast i have tried. it is cleaner than bry 97 and o5/o4 and nottingham.

it is ashame that they discontinued this yeast.

 

[AmarikinBrew]

Yeah, Standard American Beer is the BJCP category. Typical of beers brewed by the German emigres who replicated Continental lagers with indigenous North American ingredients, like 6-row barley, corn or rice adjuncts, Nugget and Cluster hops.

Beers like Schlitz, Busch, Miller, Hamm’s. The recipe was an adaptation of a “Can You Brew It” clone of Falstaff, just like my Dad used to drink on the weekends when I was growing up in the 50s and 60s. It turned out great: crisp, clear, clean, crushable.

Had a good time designing it, enjoyed brewing it, love drinking it. ‘Tribute’ beer.

Wasn't aware "Can You Brew It" did Falstaff clone. Have to find that! It's the 1st beer I stole from my Dad as a kid, so it's en"grained" in my memory.

 

[Broothru]

Wasn't aware "Can You Brew It" did Falstaff clone. Have to find that! It's the 1st beer I stole from my Dad as a kid, so it's en"grained" in my memory.

Let me dig out the brew sheet and post the recipe. It really was a nice one.

 

[wdavis2003]

Give Omega Kolsch II a try. Best Kolsch yeast I've used to date, and I've tried every one I can get my hands on: WL029, Wyeast 2565, K97, Lallemand Koln, and Imperial Dieter. Omega II is great as you can ferment warmer, and it drops fairly quickly. Drops even faster with Biofine.

I've made almost 70 batches of Kolsch, and the Omega strain has been my favorite. I ferment for 14 days at 66F and then package.

Good to hear as I just pitched this on Friday. Currently at 65. Guess I'll leave it there for 14 days!

 

[Broothru]

Let me dig out the brew sheet and post the recipe. It really was a nice one.

Falstaff Tribute 7/3/2024
American Lager – 1B American Standard Beer
All grain, Batch 6.5 gal., Mash Efficiency 80.6%, 75 minute boil

Water profile: Ca: 26, Mg: 6, Na: 22, Cl: 19, SO4: 18, HCO3: 43

4# Pale Ale malt (Briess, 3.5 SRM) 37.2%
3# 6-row Pale malt (Rahr, 2.0 SRM) 27.9%
2# Flaked maize (1.3 SRM) 18.6%
1# Flaked rice (1.0 SRM) 9.3%
8.0 oz Acidulated malt (1.8 SRM) 4.7%
4.0 oz Victory malt (Briess, 25.0 SRM) 2.3%

0.25 oz Nugget 10.1% AA :60 minutes 6.9 IBU
0.50 oz Cluster 6.2% AA :15 minutes 5.7 IBU
0.50 oz Cluster 6.2% AA :20 steep/WP 0.6 IBU
1.00 oz Liberty 2.4% AA :20 steep/WP 0.4 IBU

After boil and chill, transfer to fermenter @ 61F/16C, pitch 1 sachet (11gr) Lallemand NovaLager hybrid yeast, plus ~2ml ALDC enzyme. Pressurize to ~6 psig., attach spunding valve set to 1 ATM/14.7 psig. Vigorous fermentation after 20 hours indicated in spunding cup. Final gravity reached in 4 days. Raised temperature to 73F for D-rest for 2 days, then cold crashed to 38F for 2 days, transferred under pressure to serving keg pre-dosed with 5ml SilicaFine.

O.G. 1.048 SG/11.8P
F.G. 1.012 SG/3.1P
AVB 4.7%
IBU 13.6
SRM 3.8

Won 1st Place in Category for American Standard Beer. Glass has a lot of condensation that masks its clarity, but it drinks really smooth either way.

 

[AmarikinBrew]

That looks really good! What was the mash temp/length to get the 75% attenuation with that yeast?
Does it remind you of actual Falstaff?

-TIA

 

[Broothru]

That looks really good! What was the mash temp/length to get the 75% attenuation with that yeast?
Does it remind you of actual Falstaff?

-TIA

I did a Hoch-Kurz step mash (dough in 135F-Beta @ 145F for :20, Alpha @ 158F for :40, mash out at 170F. But actually the efficiency number is the mash efficiency, which is different than overall brewhouse efficiency.

My mash efficiencies are usually very good due to continuous upflow circulation in my Braumeister all-in-one system, that also automatically does the step mash. Set it and forget it for a ~ 1½ hour mash, +/- 1 Celsius, soup to nuts.

Regarding the Hoch-Kurz schedule, since dough-in takes about :10 minutes at a temperature at which Beta amylase is active, sacc rest is ‘virtually’ “:40” minutes. Beta is also still active at the Alpha (dextrin) rest at 158F, so conversation is complete. The extended rest at 158F allows for more dextrins, thus more body. Both enzymes get denatured at the 170F mash out.

It’s a very good process that produces worts high in fermentables without sacrificing body and mouthfeel. I adjust the temperatures and times to tweak the wort to match the desired dryness or mouthfeel of the beer I’m brewing.

 

[Miraculix]

Falstaff Tribute 7/3/2024
American Lager – 1B American Standard Beer
All grain, Batch 6.5 gal., Mash Efficiency 80.6%, 75 minute boil

Water profile: Ca: 26, Mg: 6, Na: 22, Cl: 19, SO4: 18, HCO3: 43

4# Pale Ale malt (Briess, 3.5 SRM) 37.2%
3# 6-row Pale malt (Rahr, 2.0 SRM) 27.9%
2# Flaked maize (1.3 SRM) 18.6%
1# Flaked rice (1.0 SRM) 9.3%
8.0 oz Acidulated malt (1.8 SRM) 4.7%
4.0 oz Victory malt (Briess, 25.0 SRM) 2.3%

0.25 oz Nugget 10.1% AA :60 minutes 6.9 IBU
0.50 oz Cluster 6.2% AA :15 minutes 5.7 IBU
0.50 oz Cluster 6.2% AA :20 steep/WP 0.6 IBU
1.00 oz Liberty 2.4% AA :20 steep/WP 0.4 IBU

After boil and chill, transfer to fermenter @ 61F/16C, pitch 1 sachet (11gr) Lallemand NovaLager hybrid yeast, plus ~2ml ALDC enzyme. Pressurize to ~6 psig., attach spunding valve set to 1 ATM/14.7 psig. Vigorous fermentation after 20 hours indicated in spunding cup. Final gravity reached in 4 days. Raised temperature to 73F for D-rest for 2 days, then cold crashed to 38F for 2 days, transferred under pressure to serving keg pre-dosed with 5ml SilicaFine.

O.G. 1.048 SG/11.8P
F.G. 1.012 SG/3.1P
AVB 4.7%
IBU 13.6
SRM 3.8

Won 1st Place in Category for American Standard Beer. Glass has a lot of condensation that masks its clarity, but it drinks really smooth either way.

View attachment 858525

I'd certainly drink that!