Howto: Capture Wild Yeast

[BenWillcox]

So i've read up to page 33 of this thread and havent found what I'm looking for. So i"m just going to ask. Is there a problem with collecting wild yeast and bacteria at too cold of a temp? I talked to a rep at morebeer a while back and he said that some European brewery he went to only brewed when it was cooler to collect their yeast. So today i brewed a small .5gal batch to leave out for about 12hrs. Then i read on this thread that most people are collecting at around 50-60 degrees. Our temps here right now are between 10-30. I guess one persons idea of cool is different than anothers. Is this going to be a problem? Not that I can do anything about it now. Thanks

The One time I have captured wild yeast was this last December 15th. I left hopped starter wort outside for 12 hours overnight (8-8). That night our low was 41, which was about the temperature of the wort when I got it inside. I funnelled into a growler, shook vigorousl and attached an airlock. I had full krausen a touch more than 24 hours later, my first batch with it got brewed and pitched on new years eve. That Batch had full krausen within 2 hours from pitching and was blowing off 2 hours after that. (3 gallon batch).

 

[Pith]

Cool. Did you taste the product at all?

 

[NoTrubble]

My results from the mason jars were that the two smaller ones became contaminated so I threw them out. The raspberry, blueberry and cherry showed weak signs of yeast production. The raisins seemed to outperform the 3 others.

So I harvested and washed it last night for a minimash all grain starter. I am putting together a smallish 2-3 gallon recipe to test it out and I will report back on my findings.

 

[NoTrubble]

I brewed up a 3 gallon 100% wheat beer for this today and pitched the raisin yeast a couple hours ago. It has already developed a small kruasen top and is very active.

I'm looking forward to the results in a few days.

 

[Pith]

What's a "minimash allgrain starter"? Did you just mash a handful of grain? Is it hopped?

 

[NoTrubble]

Yeah basically a handful of grains and a half gallon of water just like I would while doing a regular AG brew day.

No hops used in the starter. Hops are $4 plus per oz at my LHBS and while I believe in supporting them I don't like being extorted. Which is also the same reason I am using wild yeast for this brew test.

If I find contamination then I will use some lemon concentrate if I need to make it more acidic in the future. I am quite surprised how well these beauties are tearing up the wort in the primary.

 

[WilliamShakesbeer]

Cool! Nice info - I think I'll try this experiment in spring or summer

 

[Pith]

The minimash sounds like quite a good idea, and cheaper than extract, which is what I used last time I tried this, a long time ago.

Anyway, I've been planning to brew a Saison soon since it's Summer here in Oz, and the idea struck me that I could do two batches, one with a Wyeast Saison yeast, and one with some wild yeast, as a lot of people seem to like their wild Saisons. A few hours ago I distributed four small jars of leftover pale ale mash wort (dripped from my mash bag) on the four corners of the property, each with a pinch of acid blend. I'll post back about it.

 

[BenWillcox]

Cool. Did you taste the product at all?

I didn't taste either of the starters. The 3 gallon batch is just over 1 week old now. I think I am going to let it sit in primary for 2 or 3 more weeks. This should let me know if a.) I have really hit terminal gravity (I was @ 1.016 when I tasted it), b.) I have something else like Lacto/ Pedio, or Brett in there. and c.) give the yeast a chance to floc a bit more. I tasted it 2 days ago (crazy young) and it tasted really very clean and mild. Not much in the ester departement. No sourness, no off-flavors. my base beer was basically this:

O.G. 1.064
50% Pils
45% white wheat malt
5% caramunich

16 IBU of Hallertau, bittering only.

The whole Idea was to give it just enough body and bitterness that I would taste mostly the yeast and not alot else.

 

[Pith]

Interesting. If you wanted to get a good feel for the lambic-ness of it, I'd actually do a lambic wort (minus aged hops) with unmalted wheat instead of malted, as that's what the bacteria munches on. And I haven't known Brett to show itself that early.

But yeah, sounds quite successful and interesting. Let us know of course.

 

[turboninja64]

So i've read up to page 33 of this thread and havent found what I'm looking for. So i"m just going to ask. Is there a problem with collecting wild yeast and bacteria at too cold of a temp? I talked to a rep at morebeer a while back and he said that some European brewery he went to only brewed when it was cooler to collect their yeast. So today i brewed a small .5gal batch to leave out for about 12hrs. Then i read on this thread that most people are collecting at around 50-60 degrees. Our temps here right now are between 10-30. I guess one persons idea of cool is different than anothers. Is this going to be a problem? Not that I can do anything about it now. Thanks

So 7 days later and all I have is about 6 small spots of white fuzzy mold. So i guess this time it didnt work out. Maybe the very cold temps? Is there anything I can do to salvage this project? Maybe skim the top and re expose. Out temps have warmed here. We are now getting up to about 40f during the day, WHOOO HOOO. It is only a 1/2 gal, so no big loss if not.

 

[Chromebrew]

@ Turboninja64

I finally had success with leaving it out for 24 hours then dumping the contents into a flask with a wadded paper towel stopper. The warm snugly confines of the flask really let the yard yeast flourish. I put it in the pantry which stays a consistant 72 degrees. a day or two later you could really see the tiny bubbles masses you are looking for. I then went about stepping it up a couple times.

It may look as if there is no wild yeast in the outdoor container, but most assuredly there is. It just needs the right conditions to really take off.

Or maybe i just got lucky

Either way i have a vigorous krausen on my gallon test batch. It smells like Brett B on steroids. I cant wait.

 

[rejart]

This thread is amazing

I was so inspired I decided to try it out with a small wort sample. I put about 4oz of ~1.030 wort in a mason jar and set it out under my covered front porch for 2 hours or so one evening. The temperature was about 53º F. After bringing it inside I transferred the wort to a sanitized beer bottle and attached an air lock.

After a week or so I checked the bottle and there was evidence of a krausen line roughly two fingers above the water level and a nice layer of light sediment on the bottom. I stuck the bottle in the fridge to cold crash for a few days.

I decanted a bit of the beer off the top to sample. It tasted very similar to a saison yeast, not sour but a bit of tartness, spice and funk. Now that I had a ballpark category I planned out a half batch saison recipe to run as a test. I decided on a simple extract recipe to save time and effort:

Stats
OG: 1.049 SG
FG: 1.006 SG
AA: 87.1%
ABV: 5.7%
IBU: 29.4
Color: 8 SRM

Fermentables
1.5lbs - Pilsner DME
6 oz. - CaraMunich III (steeped)
8 oz. - turbinado sugar

Hops
.25 oz - Perle 9.0% AA at 60 min.
.25 oz - Perle 9.0% AA at 10 min.

I stepped up my yeast to a 600 mL starter and this is what it looked like after cold crashing and decanting:

Looks like yeast to me :rockin:

I brewed my batch a week ago today and stuck it in my old MR. BEER keg to ferment (I guess it's good for something after all). The yeast took off in about 8 hrs and started slowing down 3 days later. I was curious so I pulled a sample and the gravity was 1.006 already

The taste was unlike anything I've tasted before. It was absolutely delicious. Very dry but with a lingering sweetness. The flavor was fruity with a noticeable estery peach flavor (the yeast was harvested in GA after all :fro: ) as well as subtle mango/tropical fruit notes. There was not really any funk to speak of and no off flavors. I can't believe I lucked out with such a flavorful yeast!

I pulled another sample this afternoon and it's still going:

1.004 SG. That's over 91% attenuation!

Here's what it looks like:

Still a lot of yeast in suspension, but almost all of it flocculated out with a short time in the fridge. It should end up pretty clear when it's finished.

I'm going to let it ride for a few more weeks and maybe secondary in a couple gallon jugs for a while just to make sure something else (like Brett) doesn't decide to show up. I'll be bottling so I don't want any bottle-bombs.

Any idea of a good time frame to make sure it's done?

Thanks, and sorry for the long post

 

[Pith]

A post I saw a couple of pages back about the use of heavily hopped wort intrigued me. Does hopping reduce the likelihood of growing mould, in addition to bacteria? Mould is the main thing that stops me from doing this more often. Also, does mould dislike acidity, and to what extent?

 

[NoTrubble]

I brewed up a 3 gallon 100% wheat beer for this today and pitched the raisin yeast a couple hours ago. It has already developed a small kruasen top and is very active.

I'm looking forward to the results in a few days.

California Raisin Wild Yeast (Texas)

100% Wheat Beer
OG: 1.044
FG: 1.013

Tastes great without raspberries!

Secondary on to 48oz of raspberries today. Yeast already attacking those.

Picture pleasure attached.

 

[Chromebrew]

^I love the malted wheat counter in your sig

Question for everyone on this thread:

In all my attempts to capture wild yeast, i have only encountered strains of Brett. Given this, i am assuming that a majority of the airborne yeast in my area is brettanomyces. Have you other yeast harvesters found any good sacc strains? should i try fruit skins instead of exposed wort? I really want to find a wild sacc yeast with some character, but not all wet horse blanket.

Thanks again!

 

[bluedubbed]

I've captured wild Sacc, but I've only been interested in Brett so I've never kept any strains or tested them out. Based on my wild collections, I seem to get more Sacc (and possibly other non-Bretts) when the temp is warmer outside. Not sure if there is a real correlation since I've only done a handful of collections. It's help if you have some way to make selective plates/media or can put your yeast under a microscope.

I'll ask another question. I have 3 different wild Brett strains fermenting a simple wheat extract. They are about 2.5 months old and in the past week, 2 of them started to get really dark. I'm talking about a light wheat beer to a vary dark amber colored beer. I did a bit of searching and haven't found any answers. Anyone ever seen anything like this? I'll post pictures tomorrow.
I did sample them a few weeks back and maybe the air exposure caused some oxidation or some other reaction? I've never seen this with other beers I've brewed, but this is the first time I've done such small volumes.

Here is a photo. All started like the gallon on the right.
The color difference is not due to lighting, although all three are a bit darker due to the poor quality photo.

Any ideas?
Thanks.

 

[dinnerstick]

sorry i got nothing, only a question. bluedubbed (or others) what plates/selection are you using to isolate brett? i just plated girardin dregs on plates made from 1.038 wort, 1% agar, chx 25 ug/ml, chlor 50 ug/ml. the plates are clear as the blue sky after 4 days room temp.

 

[bluedubbed]

Hey Dinnerstick.

The plates I use are not that much different than what you have. I use WLN (recipe here - http://www.condalab.com/pdf/1086.pdf) supplemented with 10 ug/ml chx (first few batches I used 20ug/ml and growth was a bit slower) and 25 ug/ml chlor. Maybe you want to step back the chx and chlor at bit especially since you are trying to isolate yeast from a bottle. I'm not sure though.

When I make my initial collections outside I use both chx and chlor. After I pick and streak out individual colonies I use WLN plates with just chx and bromocresol green (10ug/ml - I think, but will have to check my notes) since I'm not so worried about bacteria at this point.

I grow everything at 30 degrees C. I found that some come up overnight and others have taken 3-4 days to get sizable colonies. I also recently want back to some plates I had a 4 degrees C (for a few months) and noticed a handful of new colonies appeared. I will grow these in liquid culture to see if the morphology is different from others I've grown.

I think I've read on this thread or other blogs that people have let plates go for 3+ weeks when isolating yeast from dregs. It doesn't quite make sense to me (unless the media is really poor), but I've never tried to do this so I don't know. Sorry.

So, maybe drop the chx and chlor a bit and maybe try a more defined media vs. wort. Keep us updated.

 

[dinnerstick]

thanks a lot. very helpful information. i'll try both suggestions (wln media and less drugs). i have been growing liquid cultures at 30 but plates at room temp (trying to be a bit inconspicuous at work) which i guess is ~21.
i haven't seen that 3 week plate suggestion, like you it goes against my microbiology instincts.
unfortunately i'll have to go open a new bottle. girardin or cantillon?? or oud beersel? such choices.
cheers!!

 

[Aschecte]

Is it too cold here in south eastern New York to do this right now ? It ranging between 28-38 degrees F.

 

[bluedubbed]

One of the 3 wild Brett I have growing just formed a pellicle.

These are the yeast that formed this pellicle.

 

[jaapie]

I've captured wild Sacc, but I've only been interested in Brett so I've never kept any strains or tested them out. Based on my wild collections, I seem to get more Sacc (and possibly other non-Bretts) when the temp is warmer outside. Not sure if there is a real correlation since I've only done a handful of collections. It's help if you have some way to make selective plates/media or can put your yeast under a microscope.

I'll ask another question. I have 3 different wild Brett strains fermenting a simple wheat extract. They are about 2.5 months old and in the past week, 2 of them started to get really dark. I'm talking about a light wheat beer to a vary dark amber colored beer. I did a bit of searching and haven't found any answers. Anyone ever seen anything like this? I'll post pictures tomorrow.
I did sample them a few weeks back and maybe the air exposure caused some oxidation or some other reaction? I've never seen this with other beers I've brewed, but this is the first time I've done such small volumes.

Here is a photo. All started like the gallon on the right.
The color difference is not due to lighting, although all three are a bit darker due to the poor quality photo.

Any ideas?
Thanks.

I have seen the opposite, going to very light. Are you sure they are Brett strains? How did you profile them?

 

[jaapie]

thanks a lot. very helpful information. i'll try both suggestions (wln media and less drugs). i have been growing liquid cultures at 30 but plates at room temp (trying to be a bit inconspicuous at work) which i guess is ~21.
i haven't seen that 3 week plate suggestion, like you it goes against my microbiology instincts.
unfortunately i'll have to go open a new bottle. girardin or cantillon?? or oud beersel? such choices.
cheers!!

Take it very easy on the antibiotics, the cells are very weak when they are dorment and at the bottom of a bottle for a long time. Sometimes its even better to leave them out completely and go by visual inspection of colonies. 3 weeks is not absurdly long, especially for half-dead yeasts.

 

[jaapie]

thanks a lot. very helpful information. i'll try both suggestions (wln media and less drugs). i have been growing liquid cultures at 30 but plates at room temp (trying to be a bit inconspicuous at work) which i guess is ~21.
i haven't seen that 3 week plate suggestion, like you it goes against my microbiology instincts.
unfortunately i'll have to go open a new bottle. girardin or cantillon?? or oud beersel? such choices.
cheers!!

But you are in Utrecht! You should be able to get those bottles pretty cheap and easy!

 

[bluedubbed]

I have seen the opposite, going to very light. Are you sure they are Brett strains? How did you profile them?

Huh, that's interesting.

I putatively identify Sacc (and maybe others?) vs Brett first by collecting everything on an agar plate with either no drugs or just antibiotic to inhibit bacterial growth. Then I streak out individual colonies on a plate with cycloheximide and bromocresol green. The Brett guys are going to be cycloheximide resistant and white to light blue in color.

I then grow them in liquid culture and look at the morphology under a microscope. I've asked a few friends that study Sacc, and they've all said 'definitely not Sacc'. I showed one to a guy that studies Brett and he agreed that it's more than likely a Brett strain.

Most of what I collect seems to be sensitive to cycloheximide and grow blue/dark blue on bromocresol green. More than the opposite. It also seems to be a bit temp and location dependent.

Sure this doesn't definitively identify these guys as Brett, but I think very few other yeast will fall into this profile. Haven't done any PCR yet, but may once I find a strain that makes a good beer that I like.

All that plusthey don't taste like a Sacc beer!

I'm not a yeast geneticist, but this is what I've gathered from talking to yeast people and doing a bit of reading of the literature.

 

[dinnerstick]

Take it very easy on the antibiotics, the cells are very weak when they are dorment and at the bottom of a bottle for a long time. Sometimes its even better to leave them out completely and go by visual inspection of colonies. 3 weeks is not absurdly long, especially for half-dead yeasts.

ok, thanks for that. the last time i plated dregs i had only one plate left and (embarrassingly) no control plate, so i just spread them to see what i got. are chx/chlor even still active after 3 weeks @RT? or is early selection sufficient to weed out bugs/sacc/etc? anyways i'll do it properly next week with low drugs and -drugs.

But you are in Utrecht! You should be able to get those bottles pretty cheap and easy!

yeah, i know. the things i do for this hobby.... but imagine my dilemma, even as we speak i have kriek or gueuze from 5 different breweries in my fridge... how do i choose??

 

[dinnerstick]

hey bluedubbed which continent of our bluegreen earth do you inhabit?

 

[bluedubbed]

I'm in NA - Utah. We live at about 8000 ft and most of my samplings have been in the mountains between 7-10,000 ft. Probably has something to do with what yeast I'm getting.
I'm not sure about chx, but I use chlor plates (for bacterial work) that are 5-8 months old.
Let us know what happens next time you plate.
Such a dilemma! We only get Lindemans in UT, which is great the first time you try a lambic...
It's always fun going out of state and seeing all the different lambics/sours that are available.

 

[jaapie]

I'm in NA - Utah. We live at about 8000 ft and most of my samplings have been in the mountains between 7-10,000 ft. Probably has something to do with what yeast I'm getting.
I'm not sure about chx, but I use chlor plates (for bacterial work) that are 5-8 months old.
Let us know what happens next time you plate.
Such a dilemma! We only get Lindemans in UT, which is great the first time you try a lambic...
It's always fun going out of state and seeing all the different lambics/sours that are available.

I cannot get my hands on chx here and use ampicillin to keep bacteria at bay.
Chloramphenicol is pretty stable, you can even autoclave it I believe, and that is not the case for ampicillin for sure.