Hops & Honey Question...

[gratus fermentatio]

So I'm formulating a recipe for a Honey Vienna Graff, and I'm dropping the DME in favor of honey & additional grain. This got me to wondering...
What if hops were boiled in a honey/water solution instead of a malt extract solution? Would the fact that it's a different type sugar effect the isomerization and/or IBU's?
Regards, GF.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

Interesting. Why not mash the vienna, boil the wort then add honey after flameout (keep more honey flavour)?

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Interesting. Why not mash the vienna, boil the wort then add honey after flameout (keep more honey flavour)?

That's the plan, I was just curious if it would work without the malt.
Regards, GF.

 

[bernardsmith]

When I make hopped meads I boil the hops in water and then allow the water to cool before adding the honey. I am not a chemist but to the best of my knowledge isomerization of the acids in hops does not require sugar. In fact a liquid with a heavy concentration of sugar can inhibit isomerization. To isomerize the acids all you need is heat (boiling water) and to the water you might a drop of lemon juice to lower the pH. Isomerization is enhanced when it takes place in low pH water
Cooked apples taste like cooked apples.

 

[Chaotic_Goodness]

When I make hopped meads I boil the hops in water and then allow the water to cool before adding the honey. I am not a chemist but to the best of my knowledge isomerization of the acids in hops does not require sugar. In fact a liquid with a heavy concentration of sugar can inhibit isomerization. To isomerize the acids all you need is heat (boiling water) and to the water you might a drop of lemon juice to lower the pH. Isomerization is enhanced when it takes place in low pH water
Cooked apples taste like cooked apples.

Yup. That's how I do it. Don't boil honey.

 

[Apimyces]

Same. Boil my hops in water, then add the honey. Warm/hot water dissolves the honey more easily, though, which is practical with crystallized honey.

 

[gumbyk]

When I make hopped meads I boil the hops in water and then allow the water to cool before adding the honey.

I'm keen to make a hopped mead. What sort of honey do you use? I'd suspect that lighter flavoured honey would tend to lose its flavour with the hops.

 

[bernardsmith]

when I make hopped mead I generally use wild flower honey. The focus is on the hops although the hops could complement the honey (Nelson Sauvin hops) for example

 

[gratus fermentatio]

When I make hopped meads I boil the hops in water and then allow the water to cool before adding the honey. I am not a chemist but to the best of my knowledge isomerization of the acids in hops does not require sugar. In fact a liquid with a heavy concentration of sugar can inhibit isomerization. To isomerize the acids all you need is heat (boiling water) and to the water you might a drop of lemon juice to lower the pH. Isomerization is enhanced when it takes place in low pH water
Cooked apples taste like cooked apples.

Do you need to adjust the amount of hops and/or boil time when boiling them in water as compared to wort for the same utilization?
Regards, GF.

 

[bernardsmith]

Do you need to adjust the amount of hops and/or boil time when boiling them in water as compared to wort for the same utilization?
Regards, GF.

I guess I don't and I have not seen that that you need to but in any event, I am not measuring the actual "bitterness" of my hop tea so I cannot say for certain.

I am not using them to make a particular style of beer with a specific amount of residual sweetness which I am counter-balancing with the bitterness of the hops. I am using the hops to add a flavor dimension to an essentially dry mead (sometimes a dry cider) So, I have no real interest in boiling for 60 or 90 minutes: I boil for 15 minutes for flavor and/or add to the hop tea at "flameout" and /or I dry hop for a week to 10 days or so in the secondary before I bottle.