MIght have gone over my head for my first try... :D

[Gitruih]

Hey all,
Brand new member here with no experience whatsoever other than few youtube how to videos. Wanted to make some traditional Lithuanian mead, brought a kit last week and went to town with it Problem is I have no idea what I'm doing and all info I have contradicts itself, so you if don't mind sharing your experience I would really appreciate it. I tried to take initial reading with hydrometer, however it shattered upon landing so I have no idea what my 1st OG is
Recipe:
10L of water
6.8kg of honey. First to put 2.4 kg, add rest over 2-3 times
200g Juniper berrier
5g Vitamin C (didn't had this one so I cut 1 lemon and 2 mandarins instead)
Yeast- I used Bulldog high alcohol mead yeast

Questions:
1. I was told by pretty much everyone that it's too much honey and it will not ferment, however I've seen more than few videos that claimed as long as you stay within 1 to 4 ratio mead will ferment without any issues.
2. Since it's been a week (back of yeast and reviews claimed that it's done in about a week) I opened to drop in 2nd batch of honey, took another reading and obviously I just had to have a sip before additional honey hydrometer was showing 1.000 and honestly I couldn't taste any honey in it- taste like cheap dry wattery wine that just started to ferment (reminded me of childhood when I was wondering how apple juice tastes after being fermented for couple of weeks so I had one fermenting bottle opened and took a sip ). After droping another 2.4kg of honey in I took another reading and this time it was showing 1.054 is this normal? Somehow I expected more than this...
3. Am I supposed to shake it everyday or should I just leave it alone standing and bubling like it's doing now?


1st Update:
as I'm going for 2 weeks of holiday I decided to open it today (13/12) to see what is happening inside. Reading was showing 1.002 and after tasting I removed bag of berries and citrus. Also I added rest of honey (1.95kg) which put my reading to 1.042. As far as I can see there is no mold (fingers crossed ). Colour- I honestly would say that it's a freshly squeezed apple juice not honey mixed with water As far as taste goes it tastes completely different than what it was last week- it has very nice taste of juniper berries that reminds me of local store brough meads. Alcohol smell and taste is nothing to sneeze at as well but as far as I know this is to be expected I guess I'll open it next in another 2 weeks once I'm back from my holiday and have equipment for secondary fermentation (need to check some videos about what it is ) or racking.

2nd update:
Came back from holiday and took the reading (29/12). It's showing 1.028. Guess only thing I can do with it now is just leave it alone and wait another few weeeks before taking new reading

 

[CKuhns]

2.4 kg honey in 10 litres of water of should give you very near 12 litres (little under). This should have given you about 1.060 gravity points. Give or take a bit, this is an estimate based upon what you told us. If fermented to 1.000 then your alcohol content would be about 7.8%.

Another 2.4 kg of honey should bring your total volume to roughly 13.5 litres. I would have expected your SG to be very near 1.055. (Yes normal) If again it ferments to 1.000 it should bring your alcohol content to about 13.9%. Thats about right for a higher ABV mead.

After looking at the yeast you linked. The recipe indicates adding 6 to 9 kg honey to 20 litres of water. Another 2.4 kg now (nearly 14 water and honey) would likely overwhelm and stress the yeast. Causing significant off flavors as you had not added any nutrients. (Without nutrients you may have to age this for a good long while.)

Are you sure youbstarted with just 10 litres of water? If "yes" then you likely had a nice clean ferment. Even though 7.8% alcohol it might not taste like it. If "no" and startedwith 20 litres then yes would be very week and watery.

Temperature is important if fermenting closer to 30 vs 20 you will get a very active ferment. One week would not be out of the question for your initial ferment. Might take a bit longer this time around.

Couple of thoughts. (Assumes your recipe as described above is correct)
- Your likely beyond the point where your yeast could take advantage of any nutrients.. I wouldnt add any.
- Stirring or shaking your must early in the process is beneficial. Your past that unless it stalls.
- I would not add any additional honey. Let it ferment and see how it tastes. Then clarify and allow to age. The honey will come through as the flavors blend and mellow.
-Significantly higher ABV meads can be achieved but require much better nutrient regimen, temperature nearer the mid-range to lower end and perhaps step feeding if your going for something approaching 18 to 19%.

For future attempts consider:
- Doing a Staggered Nutrient Protocol. Look up TOSNA 2.0 or 3.0.
- Add all your honey up front. Target a starting Gravity with an ecpected alcohol content when fermented. vs. A defined amount of honey and water. Honey sugar content varies a little. Look up one of the on-line calculators and or mead recipe builders.

Good luck, let us know how it worked for you.

Full disclosure. I had to do the metric to english conversions in my head and they may not be 100% accurate. Pretty close I think but may be slightly off.

 

[Gitruih]

2.4 kg honey in 10 litres of water of should give you very near 12 litres (little under). This should have given you about 1.060 gravity points. Give or take a bit, this is an estimate based upon what you told us. If fermented to 1.000 then your alcohol content would be about 7.8%.

Another 2.4 kg of honey should bring your total volume to roughly 13.5 litres. I would have expected your SG to be very near 1.055. (Yes normal) If again it ferments to 1.000 it should bring your alcohol content to about 13.9%. Thats about right for a higher ABV mead.

After looking at the yeast you linked. The recipe indicates adding 6 to 9 kg honey to 20 litres of water. Another 2.4 kg now (nearly 14 water and honey) would likely overwhelm and stress the yeast. Causing significant off flavors as you had not added any nutrients. (Without nutrients you may have to age this for a good long while.)

Are you sure youbstarted with just 10 litres of water? If "yes" then you likely had a nice clean ferment. Even though 7.8% alcohol it might not taste like it. If "no" and startedwith 20 litres then yes would be very week and watery.

Temperature is important if fermenting closer to 30 vs 20 you will get a very active ferment. One week would not be out of the question for your initial ferment. Might take a bit longer this time around.

Couple of thoughts. (Assumes your recipe as described above is correct)
- Your likely beyond the point where your yeast could take advantage of any nutrients.. I wouldnt add any.
- Stirring or shaking your must early in the process is beneficial. Your past that unless it stalls.
- I would not add any additional honey. Let it ferment and see how it tastes. Then clarify and allow to age. The honey will come through as the flavors blend and mellow.
-Significantly higher ABV meads can be achieved but require much better nutrient regimen, temperature nearer the mid-range to lower end and perhaps step feeding if your going for something approaching 18 to 19%.

For future attempts consider:
- Doing a Staggered Nutrient Protocol. Look up TOSNA 2.0 or 3.0.
- Add all your honey up front. Target a starting Gravity with an ecpected alcohol content when fermented. vs. A defined amount of honey and water. Honey sugar content varies a little. Look up one of the on-line calculators and or mead recipe builders.

Good luck, let us know how it worked for you.

Full disclosure. I had to do the metric to english conversions in my head and they may not be 100% accurate. Pretty close I think but may be slightly off.

Thank you so much for such detailed reply
The recipe indicates adding 6 to 9 kg honey to 20 litres of water. Another 2.4 kg now (nearly 14 water and honey) would likely overwhelm and stress the yeast. Causing significant off flavors as you had not added any nutrients. (Without nutrients you may have to age this for a good long while.) - I did not used recipe on the back. There was no mentioning of nutrients in the recipe, however on the yeast pack it says that it already has nutrients and vitamins. Long aging would explain last line of the recipe "Weaker mead ages in 4-6 years, while stronger in 6-10 years"
Are you sure youbstarted with just 10 litres of water? If "yes" then you likely had a nice clean ferment. Even though 7.8% alcohol it might not taste like it. If "no" and startedwith 20 litres then yes would be very week and watery. - Yes I'm sure I used 10L
Temperature is important if fermenting closer to 30 vs 20 you will get a very active ferment. One week would not be out of the question for your initial ferment. Might take a bit longer this time around - I'm trying to keep around 20-22 C. I'm fine with it taking longer as I'm going home for couple of weeks so it can take all the time it wants
I would not add any additional honey. Let it ferment and see how it tastes. - I will let it to go to dry again, however I am tempted to go full amount as per recipe just to see what happens

For future attempts consider: - Thanks I will check it out. It's too much fun to not try other recipes (I only stepfed this one because that's what was said in the recipe)
|By the way how can I calculate alcohol when it's stepfed?

 

[CKuhns]

Sorry. Im not familiar with this yeast and made an assumption.

There are many alcohol calculators available on line. They all pretty much use the following. (Some may vary a little.)

Original Gravity minus Final Gravity times 131.25 Equals ABV. The 131.25 is a constant that consists of the mol weight of alcohol and some say any disolved CO2. This calculation is not linear. the higher the ABV the greater the error. It will get you to within 2 to 4 tenths of actual if measured via a lab test.

What i used to estimate your first addition was the following:
Honey is roughly 80% fermentable sugar.and water (Plus or minus a percent or so.) 1 pound (0.45 kg) in enough water to equal 1 gallon (3.8 litre) gives you between 32 and 38 gravity points. (Depends on the honey) Most folks I know use 35.

And 0.035 X 131.25 = 4.6 ABV

In your case every time you add honey be sure to check the gravity then again when fermentation stops. Then do the calculation and add the results from the previous calculation(s). This works with any starting and finished gravity.

NOTE - Im sure there are more scientific and precise ways to do this but this works close enough for me.

 

[bernardsmith]

But be very aware of two important considerations. 1. Even if you stagger the amount of honey you feed the yeast, alcohol is toxic for the yeast and every lab cultured yeast has published tolerance for yeast. You exceed that tolerance and the yeast are dead. The yeast die , and you are stuck with an overly sweet drink.
2. Mead and wine making is all about balance. And sure you can make a mead (if the yeast can survive) at 18% alcohol, but most seasoned mad and wine makers KNOW that balancing a wine (or mead much about 12-14% is a task for real expertise. You need to balance the heat of the alcohol with the richness of the flavor, the acidity, that amount of tannin and the mouthfeel (viscosity). When you are trying to make a drink with the same amount of heat from the alcohol burn as a vodka you really need to know what you are doing. Youm may end up with five gallons of undrinkable mead. And with the price of honey that may not be a great way to begin this hobby.

 

[Gitruih]

But be very aware of two important considerations. 1. Even if you stagger the amount of honey you feed the yeast, alcohol is toxic for the yeast and every lab cultured yeast has published tolerance for yeast. You exceed that tolerance and the yeast are dead. The yeast die , and you are stuck with an overly sweet drink.
2. Mead and wine making is all about balance. And sure you can make a mead (if the yeast can survive) at 18% alcohol, but most seasoned mad and wine makers KNOW that balancing a wine (or mead much about 12-14% is a task for real expertise. You need to balance the heat of the alcohol with the richness of the flavor, the acidity, that amount of tannin and the mouthfeel (viscosity). When you are trying to make a drink with the same amount of heat from the alcohol burn as a vodka you really need to know what you are doing. Youm may end up with five gallons of undrinkable mead. And with the price of honey that may not be a great way to begin this hobby.

Thanks for the advise. I'll keep that in mind

 

[Gitruih]

Quick question. How long am I supposed to keep berries and citrus in? I used cotton bag used for cooking to keep them in one place so removal is easy

 

[CKuhns]

I dont think there is an easy answer.

Fruit in my opinion generally gives up all its flavor in 10 to 14 days.

You can remove it when it hits the flavor profile you prefer or Leave it as long as you like.

 

[Gitruih]

I dont think there is an easy answer.

Fruit in my opinion generally gives up all its flavor in 10 to 14 days.

You can remove it when it hits the flavor profile you prefer or Leave it as long as you like.

Thanks. I'll do taste sip before going on holoday for couple of weeks

 

[Gitruih]

I dont think there is an easy answer.

Fruit in my opinion generally gives up all its flavor in 10 to 14 days.

You can remove it when it hits the flavor profile you prefer or Leave it as long as you like.

Tried it today. Decided to remove it as berries might be overpowering the taste if I leave it for any longer

 

[Gitruih]

So a bit of a update is due I believe:

1. 04/01/24 no activity for few days. SG shows 1.026
2. 06/01/24 (yes I know I have no patience ) decided to go for secondarty fermentation (SG still 1.026). Divided into 3 denmijohns: left 1st demijohn as is without any additives; 2nd demijohn- added 11g of medium roasted french oak chips; 3rd demijohn- managed to push stopper into the demijohn while sticking in airlock so I guess it's rubber stopper flavoured?

 

[Gitruih]

Time for final update. Today I moved all my mead into wine bottles. Final gravity ended up at 1,014 tastes very sweet almost sirupy with just a hint of juniper. If my calc is correct it is somewhere in the neighbourhood of 18% all that's left now according to recipe is to leave it in cool place for 6-10 years which is completely fine by me since this is intended as a gift for my godson once he finishes school (he still has 11 years to go )