First electric build Relay/element won't switch off.

[TGnB]

Hi all,

I have set up an electric keggle in the style of thelectricbrewery.com. I have a 240v 5500 watt low density heater element plugged into my Inkbird PID with 40A SSR relay with heatsink and the included Type K thermocouple (all purchased as a kit from Amazon. Between the controller and the keggle is a manual shutoff switch.


Pictures of setup and wiring diagram
View attachment diagram.pdf


The PID kicks the SSR and heating element on at the right temperature, my set variable, but it will continue to heat well above the set variable. The element continues to fire even after the little LED labeled OUT (on the Inkbird PID) goes off. If I toggle my manual switch to OFF, of course the element goes off. When the process variable drops below my set variable the element comes on and again and will continue to heat until i turn the manual switch off again.

I ran the auto-tune function and it still continued to heat. I eventually just cancelled the auto-tune

Any suggestions? is my relay junk? If it was faulted, wouldn't the relay always be on regardless of whether the PID is signaling to do so?

I would also appreciate any tips on configuring the Inkbird PID. I will post back with how I have it at the moment.

Thank you

 

[ajdelange]

If I understand correctly when the PV tops the SP the indicator light on the controller goes out (and, I assume, also the indicator light on the SSR does too) but the SSR continues to conduct until manually commutated by opening the series switch between the SSR and the load. If that is the case the SSR is indeed failed.

 

[TGnB]

Here are the values as configured. See anything wrong here?


HIAL 9999
LoAL 9999
dHAL 9999
dLAL 9999
dF 1
CtrL 3
M50 372
P 526
t 129
Ctl 12
Sn 0
diP 2
diL 0
diH 1000
SC 0
Opl 0
Oph 100
ALP 0
CF 2
Addr 1
Baud 9600
dL 0
run 2
LOC 40
EP1-EP8 none

 

[mattd2]

If I understand correctly when the PV tops the SP the indicator light on the controller goes out (and, I assume, also the indicator light on the SSR does too) but the SSR continues to conduct until manually commutated by opening the series switch between the SSR and the load. If that is the case the SSR is indeed failed.

That sounds like what he is explaining - to expaned on your final point;
A typical failure for a SSR is for the load side to latch on and continue to pass current once the control signal is removed. If power is removed from the load side it will reset to "open".

 

[ajdelange]

Here are the values as configured. See anything wrong here?

No, but as explained in Nos. 2 & 4 the problem is not with the controller but with the SSR. If it conducts when there is no voltage across the gate terminals it is failed.

 

[inkbird]

Pls remove the wired betwen terminal 4 and 5. If your black wire is representative of Hot line, our technician suggest you to wire it to terminal 1.

Hope this help you. Any problems, pls email us [email protected]

 

[Bigarcherynut]

I'm curious what brand SSR you have. I bought the brand name Fotek on Amazon and out of 3 of them only had one that worked. They did exactly what you are describing. I did a thread on this. Thought it was my controller. They are junk.

Good luck.

 

[augiedoggy]

I'm curious what brand SSR you have. I bought the brand name Fotek on Amazon and out of 3 of them only had one that worked. They did exactly what you are describing. I did a thread on this. Thought it was my controller. They are junk.

Good luck.

Unfortunately even though I had good luck with both of my foteks and my identical mypin branded one you are right , they are the most commonly used ssr here but they also seem to have the highest DOA rate... I suspect some of this is because there are multiple ssrs being sold under the fotek name that are made by different "cloners" and some fakes are better than others it seems.

When I googled it I found an article on how to tell the clones apart from the "real" foteks... There is also an article where someone pulled one apart to find they were not built to the tolerances needed for their rated capacity..

 

[augiedoggy]

Pls remove the wired betwen terminal 4 and 5. If your black wire is representative of Hot line, our technician suggestion you wire to terminal 1.

Hope this help you. Any problems, pls email us [email protected]

Are your branded ssrs from the same manufacturer selling the "fotek" and "mypin" ones? It looks like it.. If so, You would know better than me but those fotek ones seem to have a high failure rate

 

[Firewalker11]

I have two Fotek SSR's that failed, one open, the other closed. A third has been working very well but I also have a one pole contactor (key switch) to cut all power to the SSR in case of a closed position failure.

Really, the only way I can think of safely using your diagram is to buy an Auber SSR.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=30

 

[augiedoggy]

I have two Fotek SSR's that failed, one open, the other closed. A third has been working very well but I also have a one pole contactor (key switch) to cut all power to the SSR in case of a closed position failure.

Really, the only way I can think of safely using your diagram is to buy an Auber SSR.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_30&products_id=30

and those Auber ssrs are really just these mager ones rebranded by Auber ..


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Solid-State...041400?hash=item33abc364f8:g:ryEAAOSw14xWMEO5

often you can find them sold with thermal paste and a heat sink for under $12 shipped..

 

[Firewalker11]

and those Auber ssrs are really just these mager ones rebranded by Auber with a markup..


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Solid-State...041400?hash=item33abc364f8:g:ryEAAOSw14xWMEO5

often you can find them sold with thermal paste and a heat sink for under $12 shipped..

Really?!? That's awful! What is the solution than?

 

[augiedoggy]

Really?!? That's awful! What is the solution than?

Buy either depending on how quickly or cheaply you need them.. I'm just pointing out that auber is Not responsible for them or their quality... Nor the only option.

you can get them from Walmart for $10 too if you would like more options

http://www.walmart.com/ip/MGR-1-D48...mode=0000&veh=cse&sdc_id=970464291585&affjs=1

 

[PeteNMA]

I bought two Mager SSRs from a seller in GA, so if you don't mind paying an extra buck or two over the direct from China prices I'd recommend them. The seller was golanderllc on eBay

 

[PeteNMA]

I have two Fotek SSR's that failed, one open, the other closed. A third has been working very well but I also have a one pole contactor (key switch) to cut all power to the SSR in case of a closed position failure.

How do you have this wired? Are you running element power through a key switch?

 

[Firewalker11]

How do you have this wired? Are you running element power through a key switch?

One pole contactor, mine is 110V and draws less than 100ma to close the contactor.

 

[augiedoggy]

I did something similiar by using 24v dc coil relays I wired a 3 way swithc to only allow one or niether relay to open allowing only one element to be active at a time and the my rims is on its own separate on off relay switch since its only 1800w and can run simultaneously as either 4500w element off the same 30A main power feed.

I wired 120v indicator lights to tell me if any element it actually staying on and when.

 

[PeteNMA]

One pole contactor, mine is 110V and draws less than 100ma to close the contactor.

Cool I figured that that was what you meant but I had to ask.

 

[inkbird]

I'm curious what brand SSR you have. I bought the brand name Fotek on Amazon and out of 3 of them only had one that worked. They did exactly what you are describing. I did a thread on this. Thought it was my controller. They are junk.

Good luck.

Could you give me the link you bought?

 

[inkbird]

Unfortunately even though I had good luck with both of my foteks and my identical mypin branded one you are right , they are the most commonly used ssr here but they also seem to have the highest DOA rate... I suspect some of this is because there are multiple ssrs being sold under the fotek name that are made by different "cloners" and some fakes are better than others it seems.

When I googled it I found an article on how to tell the clones apart from the "real" foteks... There is also an article where someone pulled one apart to find they were not built to the tolerances needed for their rated capacity..

Could you give me the link you bought from? I will help you distinguish right foteks or not.

 

[Bigarcherynut]

Could you give me the link you bought?

Here's the website. http://auberins.com/

This is the relay I purchased. MGR-1D4840

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

I did something similiar by using 24v dc coil relays I wired a 3 way swithc to only allow one or niether relay to open allowing only one element to be active at a time and the my rims is on its own separate on off relay switch since its only 1800w and can run simultaneously as either 4500w element off the same 30A main power feed.

I wired 120v indicator lights to tell me if any element it actually staying on and when.

Yup this, i wired a 3 way switch to my Strangebrew box so only one can be on at a time, middle is both off. That way no matter what the Software PID is telling the SSR to do the contactor never lets the power through.

Knock on wood but i have two Foteks that have worked great so far, they got a bit hot but now are externally mounted with a heatsink and fan blowing across it so it(the heatsink) usually cold to the touch even after an hour of full power with a 5500W element. I have no doubt they are fake at this price.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005KPIX9A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I do have two Auberins 40A SSR's to use as replacements if/when they die.

 

[augiedoggy]

Yup this, i wired a 3 way switch to my Strangebrew box so only one can be on at a time, middle is both off. That way no matter what the Software PID is telling the SSR to do the contactor never lets the power through.

Knock on wood but i have two Foteks that have worked great so far, they got a bit hot but now are externally mounted with a heatsink and fan blowing across it so it(the heatsink) usually cold to the touch even after an hour of full power with a 5500W element. I have no doubt they are fake at this price.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005KPIX9A/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I do have two Auberins 40A SSR's to use as replacements if/when they die.

Something I did you you may find helpful since If I remember right you also have a pretty crammed control panel, is I bought one of the Teledyne dual ssrs off ebay and used that to power 2 of my elements... It saves a bunch of space... currently I have one mypin 25a brand ssr and this dual ssr powering the 3 elements. my 2 foteks sit in a box as backups now.

 

[augiedoggy]

Could you give me the link you bought from? I will help you distinguish right foteks or not.

I purchased mine a few years ago and mine actually did not fail. Thanks though.

If you do a search here for "fotek ssr" you will see many reports of failures...

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Something I did you you may find helpful since If I remember right you also have a pretty crammed control panel, is I bought one of the Teledyne dual ssrs off ebay and used that to power 2 of my elements... It saves a bunch of space... currently I have one mypin 25a brand ssr and this dual ssr powering the 3 elements. my 2 foteks sit in a box as backups now.

Hopefully i dont need a 5th and 6th SSR for quite a while but thanks ill look into them for if i ever do. Issue is my heatsink is already tapped for standard so i'd have to rip it all apart to add new holes. Unless this dual SSR has the same footprint.

 

[augiedoggy]

Hopefully i dont need a 5th and 6th SSR for quite a while but thanks ill look into them for if i ever do. Issue is my heatsink is already tapped for standard so i'd have to rip it all apart to add new holes. Unless this dual SSR has the same footprint.

same footprint..I am using the little cheap $3 heatsinks but have a fan blowing on them.