First time PID user

[Bobby_M]

Each are 3000w 240v. They both came from the same stove top.

Is there a way to measure the wats on my end? If so how? I have a Klein cl390 volt/amp meter if this helps

Yes, measure the ohms of each element.

 

[user 345769]

Yes, measure the ohms of each element.

OK, so one element reads 25.9 ohms and the second one comes in at 26.5 ohms and that’s if I did it correctly I’ve never done this before.

 

[Bobby_M]

OK, so one element reads 25.9 ohms and the second one comes in at 26.5 ohms and that’s if I did it correctly I’ve never done this before.

240v / 26 ohms = 9.23 amps.
240v * 9.23 amps = 2215 watts.

 

[user 345769]

240v / 26 ohms = 9.23 amps.
240v * 9.23 amps = 2215 watts.

Well I guess they are not as good as I was hoping but I guess I can't expect them to work as if they were new.

 

[doug293cz]

Each are 3000w 240v. They both came from the same stove top.

Is there a way to measure the wats on my end? If so how? I have a Klein cl390 volt/amp meter if this helps

The Klein CL390 looks like a great tool to have. You can use it to measure the current going to the element(s), and the voltage across the element(s) while in operation. Then just multiply the current times the voltage to get the power currently being used by the element.

To measure, clamp around the one of the power wires going to the element(s), and put one of the voltage probes on the element side SSR terminal (can be 1 or 2 depending on how you did the wiring), and the other probe on an available exposed terminal connecting to the non-SSR wire to the element(s). This will get the SSR out of the measurement, so that you are measuring only power going to the element(s).

The resistance of your elements will go up as they get hotter, and thus the power from the elements will go down (assuming the voltage remains constant.) How much the resistance goes up, and the power goes down, will depend on the temperature of the wire inside the element, and the specific Nichrome alloy used in the elements.

Brew on

 

[passedpawn]

240v / 26 ohms = 9.23 amps.
240v * 9.23 amps = 2215 watts.

Save a step.
V^2 / R = Watts. I.e., (240 * 240 ) / 26 = 2215W

 

[user 345769]

To measure, clamp around the one of the power wires going to the element(s), and put one of the voltage probes on the element side SSR terminal (can be 1 or 2 depending on how you did the wiring), and the other probe on an available exposed terminal connecting to the non-SSR wire to the element(s). This will get the SSR out of the measurement, so that you are measuring only power going to the element(s).

Thank you, I will do this tomorrow.

 

[user 345769]

So this is what I have redone no done yet.
Source is bottom left with a grounding/earth plate to the right of it. I installed an inline Tri-fuse buss with 20amp fuses installed only using 2 at this time. I only used terminal connections for the switches all other ends are twisted and soldered all wire is copper 12 gauge.
I hope to have time tonight to finish it.

 

[doug293cz]

So this is what I have redone no done yet.
Source is bottom left with a grounding/earth plate to the right of it. I installed an inline Tri-fuse buss with 20amp fuses installed only using 2 at this time. I only used terminal connections for the switches all other ends are twisted and soldered all wire is copper 12 gauge.
I hope to have time tonight to finish it.

I still see a bunch of mixed wire colors for things that are tied together.

Brew on

 

[user 345769]

So it is all done got my replacement SSR In today.

 

[doug293cz]

Nice to see consistent wire color by circuit branch.

What are the white wires that look like they are going into the SSR heatsink? Temperature probes?

Brew on

 

[user 345769]

What are the white wires

OH, they are the thermal couples I currently have resting on top of the heatsink that goes to the 2 temp displays. I wanted to see how hot the heatsink got before I swapped them out for the ones that would be going inside. You can see them on the top left In the 2nd pic.

 

[user 345769]

Nice to see consistent wire color by circuit branch.

Thank you

 

[doug293cz]

OH, they are the thermal couples I currently have resting on top of the heatsink that goes to the 2 temp displays. I wanted to see how hot the heatsink got before I swapped them out for the ones that would be going inside. You can see them on the top left In the 2nd pic.

Be interested to see what the temp measurements look like. You might be able to improve the heatsink performance (reduce temp) by rotating the heatsink/SSR by 90° which will allow vertical convection to flow along the heatsink fins.

Brew on

 

[user 345769]

temp measurements

At first, before I even put ona fan. it did hit 65°c A couple of those photos I uploaded you can see on the wall There's a fan that I actually had running on the heat sink at the time and got it cooled down fast.

I did some digging around and found this little fan. It has a very high output so at the bottom of the image, you probably see a little red light that is just a 12 V limiter to allow me to control the fan speed currently it's running continuously when the system is on,

I am just finishing up my last batch of pale malt with the system set at 85°c and when it is heating the temp on the heatsink stays around 25-30°c.

I am thinking of getting a bigger heat sink so that the fan can sit right against it. I believe that would be more efficient.

 

[doug293cz]

At first, before I even put ona fan. it did hit 65°c A couple of those photos I uploaded you can see on the wall There's a fan that I actually had running on the heat sink at the time and got it cooled down fast.

I did some digging around and found this little fan. It has a very high output so at the bottom of the image, you probably see a little red light that is just a 12 V limiter to allow me to control the fan speed currently it's running continuously when the system is on,

I am just finishing up my last batch of pale malt with the system set at 85°c and when it is heating the temp on the heatsink stays around 25-30°c.

I am thinking of getting a bigger heat sink so that the fan can sit right against it. I believe that would be more efficient.

65°C is way too hot for the heatsink. You want to keep the baseplate of the SSR under 60°C, and 50°C is a more conservative target. The heatsink will aways be somewhat cooler than the baseplate. 25° - 30°C is a good safe temp for the heatsink.

Brew on

 

[user 345769]

so no my PID needs a small retuning I think, I ran the auto mode and it set the PID settings as follows
CEL 1
P 10
I 25
d 6
the PID is overshooting by 10°c and undershooting by 5-10°c how can I shrink the over and undershooting gap?
just an FYI I do not have a good understanding of what each setting does, I've tried but there is so much info I get all turned around.

 

[doug293cz]

Are you still using the InkBird ITC106VH PID? Where is the temp probe that the PID uses to control things, are where are the elements relative to the temp probe?

Brew on

 

[user 345769]

Are you still using the InkBird ITC106VH PID?

Yes.

Where is the temp probe that the PID uses

At top center of the pic is the prob. I normally have a perforated stainless steel plate on top of the top burner with some ceramic beads to diffuse the heat and intercept anything that falls grain, rootlets, moisture ex. And it’s not a direct heat source above the gain bed so I took it off for the photo.
Also it will be a potential place that I can do some cold smoking, but that’s a different story tho.

 

[ClaudiusB]

@Miss Blueberry Hoppy, according to your picture, you extended the thermocouple K's wires with regular wires instead of thermocouple extension wires.

Source info:

Why is it important to use the correct thermocouple extension wire?​

Selecting the appropriate thermocouple extension wire is imperative for maintaining the integrity and precision of the measurement. The primary reason is to maintain thermoelectric compatibility with the thermocouple system and thus reduce the extent of measurement errors and signal interference. One more thing: top references state that the use of inappropriate or mismatched extension wires may result in calibration and other inaccuracies that could compromise important data.

 

[doug293cz]

Yes.

At top center of the pic is the prob. I normally have a perforated stainless steel plate on top of the top burner with some ceramic beads to diffuse the heat and intercept anything that falls grain, rootlets, moisture ex. And it’s not a direct heat source above the gain bed so I took it off for the photo.
Also it will be a potential place that I can do some cold smoking, but that’s a different story tho.

Is that a fan under the bottom burner? If so, I assume it would be blowing air up into the chamber?

And @ClaudiusB 's comments in the post above need to be addressed.

Brew on

 

[user 345769]

thermocouple extension wires.

I will look in to that, thank you.

Is that a fan under the bottom burner? If so, I assume it would be blowing air up into the chamber?

That is correct.

 

[ClaudiusB]

@Miss Blueberry Hoppy, I like to label all my wires to make troubleshooting easier in the future regardless of project size. This way, I won't pull on wires and end up with a mess.
Simple wire labels are available at Home Depot.
Attached are a few pics showing what I do and different brewing projects.

 

[user 345769]

@Miss Blueberry Hoppy, I like to label all my wires to make troubleshooting easier in the future regardless of project size. This way, I won't pull on wires and end up with a mess.
Simple wire labels are available at Home Depot.
Attached are a few pics showing what I do and different brewing projects.

Oh, WOW so neat and tidy. I try lol.

 

[user 345769]

what do you all think, from a safety standpoint should I put one of these on?

 

[ClaudiusB]

what do you all think, from a safety standpoint should I put one of these on?

I installed one in my incubator in case the heater SSR goes by.

 

[doug293cz]

what do you all think, from a safety standpoint should I put one of these on?

From a safety standpoint, all your components, and the wiring connecting them should either be in a plastic, or grounded metal, enclosure.

As for your temp over and undershoot issue, you should run the self-tuning mode program with the chamber loaded with grain as for a real run. This should do a decent job of optimizing the PID parameters. One issue you may have is that it takes a while for the added or lost heat to register with the thermocouple. So, that the element stays on too high even after the set temp has been reached, and then stays off/too-low for too long as the chamber cools down. Locating the active tip ot the thermocouple closer to the elements can reduce the response time lag, and decrease over/undershoot.

Brew on