EZ Water Calculator 3.0

[kal]

It's the least I can do - I use your spreadsheet every time I brew. It's by far the easiest/most logical water adjustment tool I've tried. The fact that you keep working on it to make it better is icing on the cake!

Kal

 

[Yooper]

I just took a look at 3.0- I like it! Thanks for this.

 

[shanecb]

Just used it for the first time during a brew. Worked out great! Thanks again.

 

[-TH-]

BTW, AJ did a quick check of his last 3 brews vs. 3.0 - here's his post from another thread...

I went back and checked the last 3 beers I did. Here's what I got

Beer Prediction Measured
Kölsch 5.48 5.49
Fest 5.23 5.32
Pils 5.41 5.45

Not bad at all but I do need to point out that I used the DI mash value for the base malt I use (Weyermann's Pils) that I measured (5.75) rather than the value in the table (5.70). Obviously, if I used 5.70 all the pH's would be lower by 0.05.

For the Fest I did not measure the DI pH's for any of the other malts using, instead, the values in the table. The base malt value was 5.75.

Thus, for the beers I do with the water I do based on a sample size of n = 3. It appears this is a good model. It is still imperative that it be fed with good data.

 

[LandoLincoln]

These EZ Water spreadsheets feel like cheating. Adjusting water chemistry is not supposed to be so easy, is it? My water sample shows really high bicarbonates (335). According to this latest one I should add about 4ml of lactic acid to reduce the pH to around 5.54 (after adding in our grain bill) and add 3 grams of calcium chloride to balance out the bitterness to maltiness. We'll be brewing an Imperial IPA next so we're probably going to want water that highlights bitterness, but I figure I can drop the amounts of calcium chloride in future batches if the bitterness isn't strong enough. Thanks again for all your hard work on making our lives easier.

 

[Double-R]

My ph fell in-between the recommend ph range of 5.4-5.6 at 5.51
Now I've read that 5.2 should be the ph to shoot for.
I got it to 5.22 by adding 5ml of lactic acid. For 10 total gallons of water used
Am I now to forget about 5.2,and just try to fall in the reco/range .

 

[ajdelange]

Right around 5.4 is ideal if the measurement was made at room temperature. It might be closer to 5.2 at mash temperature but you should not measure at mash temperature.

 

[Bobby_M]

I thought I'd post some real world results since it's fresh:
Keep in mind that the water specs were literally tested within about a week of brewing and the actual pH was measured with two different meters.


Starting Water (ppm):
Ca: 87
Mg: 15
Na: 28
Cl: 69
SO4: 48
CaCO3: 186

Mash / Sparge Vol (gal): 84 / 41


Total Grain (lb): 270.0

Adjustments (grams) Mash / Boil Kettle:
no adjustments made other than campden for chloramine removal.

Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 87 / 87
Mg: 15 / 15
Na: 28 / 28
Cl: 69 / 69
SO4: 48 / 48
Cl to SO4 Ratio: 1.44 / 1.44

Alkalinity (CaCO3): 186
RA: 115
Estimated pH: 5.68
Measured pH: 5.39

The grain breakdown was:

Select Grain Weight Color (°L) Mash pH
Type (lb) (Crystal Malts Only) (from chart)
4 205 0 5.77
5 18 0 5.43
11 35 0 4.71
10 12 60 4.92
1 0 0 0.00

205lbs Maris, 18lbs Munich, 35lbs Roasted (14 roasted barley, 14 chocolate, 7 Carafa III) and 12lb Crystal 60L

 

[-TH-]

I thought I'd post some real world results since it's fresh:
Keep in mind that the water specs were literally tested within about a week of brewing and the actual pH was measured with two different meters.


Starting Water (ppm):
Ca: 87
Mg: 15
Na: 28
Cl: 69
SO4: 48
CaCO3: 186

Mash / Sparge Vol (gal): 84 / 41


Total Grain (lb): 270.0

Adjustments (grams) Mash / Boil Kettle:
no adjustments made other than campden for chloramine removal.

Mash Water / Total water (ppm):
Ca: 87 / 87
Mg: 15 / 15
Na: 28 / 28
Cl: 69 / 69
SO4: 48 / 48
Cl to SO4 Ratio: 1.44 / 1.44

Alkalinity (CaCO3): 186
RA: 115
Estimated pH: 5.68
Measured pH: 5.39

The grain breakdown was:

Select Grain Weight Color (°L) Mash pH
Type (lb) (Crystal Malts Only) (from chart)
4 205 0 5.77
5 18 0 5.43
11 35 0 4.71
10 12 60 4.92
1 0 0 0.00

205lbs Maris, 18lbs Munich, 35lbs Roasted (14 roasted barley, 14 chocolate, 7 Carafa III) and 12lb Crystal 60L

I know the spreadsheet won't always be dead on every time, but I have to say your measured pH looks low to me for that water profile and grain bill (I assume the 5.39 is at room temp right?) I wouldn't think the large batch size would have anything to do with it, but who knows, maybe the mash hadn't mixed enough yet or the pH "leveled off" yet when the sample was taken? Or maybe the DI water mash pH for your Maris Otter is much lower than the 5.77 that Kai got for his. I don't know, maybe someone else (like AJ) has some ideas.

 

[jmf143]

Love the new version TH! One thing that's always seemd odd to me is that none of the spreadsheets allow for making additions to the sparge water unless the same salt is being added to the strike water. Is there an easy explanation why this would be the case?

 

[-TH-]

Love the new version TH! One thing that's always seemd odd to me is that none of the spreadsheets allow for making additions to the sparge water unless the same salt is being added to the strike water. Is there an easy explanation why this would be the case?

What you can do is simply type in your own value right overtop of the formula in the sparge water salt cell. This way you could have 0 in a mash salt cell but some value the the corresponding sparge salt cell in order to modify your total water. Does that make sense? (I'm having a hard time explaining this for some reason right now). Of course you would have to open a new copy of the spreadsheet if you ever wanted that formula to be there again (which in a nut shell answers your question of why it is the way it is - I know, it could be done with macros, but I won't put macros in EZ).

 

[theschick]

Thank you TH, this is the motivation I needed to finally look at my water profile. I see where I can add lactic acid to adjust my mash Ph. Should I also use approximately the same percentage to the sparge water?

 

[ajdelange]

... maybe the DI water mash pH for your Maris Otter is much lower than the 5.77 that Kai got for his. I don't know, maybe someone else (like AJ) has some ideas.

That would be my guess. I only measured it once (and don't remember which maltster) and got 5.6.

 

[RCCOLA]

I plugged the numbers in for my last 3 brews and my lighter beers were higher in EZ by .3 and the one dark beer was high .2 before the lime addition, .1 after.

Both lighter beers used 1/2 Rahr Pale ale as base (one was .5 rahr/.5 MO, the other .5Rahr/.5 wheat)

The Rahr was entered as Vienna base.

 

[jmf143]

What you can do is simply type in your own value right overtop of the formula in the sparge water salt cell. This way you could have 0 in a mash salt cell but some value the the corresponding sparge salt cell in order to modify your total water. Does that make sense? (I'm having a hard time explaining this for some reason right now). Of course you would have to open a new copy of the spreadsheet if you ever wanted that formula to be there again (which in a nut shell answers your question of why it is the way it is - I know, it could be done with macros, but I won't put macros in EZ).

Makes perfect sense. Now I just have to remember not to save it with the overriden value in the cell.

 

[Bobby_M]

I know the spreadsheet won't always be dead on every time, but I have to say your measured pH looks low to me for that water profile and grain bill (I assume the 5.39 is at room temp right?) I wouldn't think the large batch size would have anything to do with it, but who knows, maybe the mash hadn't mixed enough yet or the pH "leveled off" yet when the sample was taken? Or maybe the DI water mash pH for your Maris Otter is much lower than the 5.77 that Kai got for his. I don't know, maybe someone else (like AJ) has some ideas.

The sample was actually taken towards the end of the mash, probably 45 minutes in. It was cooled to about 80F before testing.

 

[jaythebassist]

TH, thanks a lot for your hard work on this spreadsheet. I'm really new to water chemistry, but it makes it painless when we have all these great resources. Thanks!

I also have a specific question about adjusting my mash pH, but I don't want to hijack, so I started another thread.

TH, I will donate to you via paypal when you decide it's time to take donations.

 

[Bonde]

I know there are a lot of factors coming into play when talking ph, and I’m absolutely not a water specialist.

I've used the EZ2.0 for a long time now and hit close to spot on very often. But the very dark porters always seemed to be a problem, when entering the beer color in EZ2.0 it would always send the PH way down, when doing black beers.
In the new version there are no color scale, is this because of the advanced malt calculations instead?

Did a Porter today, the old 2.0 calc. said PH 3.41 and V.3.0 said 5.49. I ended up at 4.9…. strange. I'm a little confused now :-(

Will the EZ 3.0 come in a metric format too?

Great work by the way, a very very very useful tool.

 

[wildwest450]

Not bad, not bad at all. I love this spreadsheet. I will be upgrading my ph meter shortly, the results may even be closer than they are now.

 

[rockytoptim]

WildWest: What the model number of that PH meter. Would you recommend it again if you had to buy another one?

Thanks
Tim

 

[Zen_Brew]

Thanx for all the hard work TH. I have used either exclusively, or mixed with other worksheets every version of EZ water so far. I am amazed at the changes in estimated PH on this version. I have to admit although I have a PH meter, I did not often use it. Having soft Seattle water the older water sheets all had me doing sizable boosts to alkalinity for stouts and such, that this one does not.

I'm exited to do another stout now with much smaller salt additions and see how it comes out.

Also +1 to the request for Nacl I use non iodized salt from time to time to round out the flavor in certain beers.

Mega Cheers!!

 

[wildwest450]

WildWest: What the model number of that PH meter. Would you recommend it again if you had to buy another one?

Thanks
Tim

It's a cheapie, but seems to work well. I'm looking for something a little more accurate, but it's still far better than ph strips.

http://www.google.com/products/cata...=X&ei=0ANdTrOhIMvI0AHHxvCpDg&ved=0CIkBEPICMAc


_

 

[mastweb]

Thanks a lot for the software. It is really complete and helpful!

I would have a question on how to use it though...

Now that we can enter all these grains setting and that it give us an approximate of our pH, do we still have to worry about our residual alkalinity, or do we just have to watch our final pH?

I am brewing a dry stout. When my RA is low, my pH is good, but when I use additions to raise the RA, my pH gets too high...

Can anyone help me?

 

[afr0byte]

Thanks a lot for the software. It is really complete and helpful!

I would have a question on how to use it though...

Now that we can enter all these grains setting and that it give us an approximate of our pH, do we still have to worry about our residual alkalinity, or do we just have to watch our final pH?

I am brewing a dry stout. When my RA is low, my pH is good, but when I use additions to raise the RA, my pH gets too high...

Can anyone help me?

I wouldn't worry about your RA, unless you're adding a lot to your water to get that lower RA. The pH is primarily what's important.

 

[mastweb]

When I add 1g gypsum, 2g calcium chloride, 1g epsom salt and 1g of chalk, I get RA : 38 (which seems very low) and pH 5.50.

If I want a RA of 200, I have to put 2.5g calcium chloride, 3g epsom salt, 4g baking soda and 4g of Chalk. It gives me RA : 200 and pH 5.65

Whatever I do to reduce my pH gets my RA very low

 

[afr0byte]

I would go with your first set of additions, but without the chalk. You may need to add a bit more calcium chloride or gypsum to get your calcium up to 50ppm, though. Don't worry about your RA being low. It's unlikely that your pH is going to be overly low.

 

[johngie]

Any chance for a metric version like 2.0 had?

 

[mastweb]

I would go with your first set of additions, but without the chalk. You may need to add a bit more calcium chloride or gypsum to get your calcium up to 50ppm, though. Don't worry about your RA being low. It's unlikely that your pH is going to be overly low.

The thing that messes with my head is that according to John Palmer's nomograph, RA and pH are linked. But I don't thing it is always true in this calculator. Am I right?

Shouldn't I be raising the pH for brewing a stout since my water is not so hard...?

 

[afr0byte]

The thing that messes with my head is that according to John Palmer's nomograph, RA and pH are linked. But I don't thing it is always true in this calculator. Am I right?

Shouldn't I be raising the pH for brewing a stout since my water is not so hard...?

Palmer's nomograph is there as a general rule of thumb. In general, yes, darker beers can overcome more alkalinity, since the darker malts tend to have more acid in them. You may very well have to add some chalk, however you can't really be sure of that unless you have some way to measure your mash pH. Everything I've read on here says you're more likely to have too high of a pH than too low of a pH.

EDIT: Also, if you're worried about your pH getting too low in your mash, you could steep the dark grains in your boil kettle.

 

[mastweb]

Alright! thank you for you answers!
I will get something to measure my pH in the future, for sure.

For the moment, since I can't measure it, I'll use some pH 5.2 just in case, since we can't predict exactly how the mash will react. But I still wanted to get as close to the target as possible for the future when I will try not to use it