Exploring "no chill" brewing

[Bradinator]

I have no-chilled my last 9 of the 10 beers I have brewed and not a single one turned out poorly. I started to use Irish Moss again for the past 3 beers and found that the clarity of the beers improved quite a lot. I even made an IPA for my second last batch and it is possibly the best beer I have made to date, though it is still young so it remains to be seen if the hop flavour dulls.

Honestly I cannot see any advantage to chilling anymore, except in situations where I need to pitch the yeast the same day I brew.

 

[Airborneguy]

I chill my ales because its easy for me to get them down to pitching temp with my re-circulating ice water bucket. My lagers I chill to about 90-100ºF then put them in my freezer overnight to get them to 45ºF to pitch in the morning. No negative effects.

 

[Brewsday]

I've been trying to figure out how to go to 10 gallons batches without a lot of new and expensive gear. I have done 2 consecutive/simultaneous (I know, that's sort of a conflict of terms) same day 5 gallon batches but there was a lot of demand on my only big pot and it was a very long day! No chill may be just the ticket. Plus, when transferring to carboys the two batches could be blended for more consistency. So I shopped containers and ran into this "Quoral" stuff. Baritainers® Jerry Can | U.S. Plastic Corp. Nice prices and size variety. Sounds like a possible improvement over HDPE. I found this spec sheet that mentions fruit juice and various alcohols. http://bppolymers.com/uploads/BPP_CHEMICAL_TEST_SHEET_09.28.09.pdf I was wondering if any of you see any a reason NOT to fill these with hot wort. Has anyone tried these yet that's willing to share their thoughts? Thanks...this is a great thread!

 

[ldudek]

I've been trying to figure out how to go to 10 gallons batches without a lot of new and expensive gear. I have done 2 consecutive/simultaneous (I know, that's sort of a conflict of terms) same day 5 gallon batches but there was a lot of demand on my only big pot and it was a very long day! No chill may be just the ticket. Plus, when transferring to carboys the two batches could be blended for more consistency. So I shopped containers and ran into this "Quoral" stuff. Baritainers® Jerry Can | U.S. Plastic Corp. Nice prices and size variety. Sounds like a possible improvement over HDPE. I found this spec sheet that mentions fruit juice and various alcohols. http://bppolymers.com/uploads/BPP_CHEMICAL_TEST_SHEET_09.28.09.pdf I was wondering if any of you see any a reason NOT to fill these with hot wort. Has anyone tried these yet that's willing to share their thoughts? Thanks...this is a great thread!

Thanks for the link! Looks like a plan! SPECIFICATIONS:
UN X rated Jerry Can with black screw closure. Closure neck: DIN 50 or DIN 60 with tamper-evident system. HDPE maximum temperature: 248°F (120°C) and minimum temperature: -148°F (-100°C). Not autoclavable.

 

[cowgo]

Thanks for the link! Looks like a plan! SPECIFICATIONS:
UN X rated Jerry Can with black screw closure. Closure neck: DIN 50 or DIN 60 with tamper-evident system. HDPE maximum temperature: 248°F (120°C) and minimum temperature: -148°F (-100°C). Not autoclavable.

If the handle is hollow, make sure you get the whole thing cleaned out thoroughly. That's the usual spot for nastieis to grow if you're not careful in cleaning and sanitizing.

I use the 6 gallon winpak from US Plastic HERE Ferment in the same container by using an 11.5 stopper with airlock.

 

[adman]

I've been brewing with Winpaks for at least a year. Switched to a different product from US Plastics that has a number of advantages over Winpaks:

1. The spigot allows clean transfers (to secondary or kegs). I run CO2 down the tube into the keg when doing transfers and put a layer of CO2 in the carboy prior to transfer to reduce exposure to oxidation as well.

2. The hole in the cap allows a bung and airlock so the carboy acts as both a cooling vessel after the boil, as well as a fermenter with the added feature of clean transfers to the keg.

3, The larger 3" opening allows easier access for dry hops, finings, etc.

4. The spout screws on from the outside. There are no internal threads. Much more robust than typical spigots used on plastic buckets and spigot can be turned sideways so unit lays horrizontal. Just turn it vertical when ready to transfer.

5. You can see through this much easier than with a Winpak.

6. There are measurement markers on the outside in 1/2 gallon increments that tell you exactly how much wort you have.

7. Because you can spigot it out while it lays on its side for fermentation, you get better precipitation of trub, etc. because of lower depth. Spigot is high enough to leave most prepipitate, colld break, trub, etc.

8. The large 3" opening means you can actually get your hand inside to clean.

Here is the link foor those interested: 3" Opening 5 Gallon Carboy | U.S. Plastic Corp.

There are two downsides I can see:
1. They don't stack quite as stable as the Winpaks do.
2. They hold about 5.5 gallons.I use Fermcap to eliminate foam during fermentation - a necessity because there is no room for it unless you do this or use an overflow tube. Fermcap has had no negative effect of foam or head retention in my beers.

After reading through the entire thread, I am intrigued by the above container and its potential for both a no-chill and fermentation vessel. Has anyone other than ipscman used the "3 inch opening 5 gallon carboy" to chill and/or ferment in? Does the fact that this particular container may not create an air-tight seal as do the winpaks mean that an infection is more likely to occur in the chilling wort? I am very interested in moving to no-chill brewing as a means to trim some time and equipment from my brew days, and this container seems ideal, but for the fact that it may not seal as tightly as do the "standard" winpaks.

Thanks!

 

[H-ost]

@ Brewsday - When I moved to 10 gallon all grain batches is when I decided to go no-chill. It is awesome!

@ Adman - If you cannot get an airtight seal I would be worried because to sanitize the entire inside with the hot wort you flip the cube on all of its various sides and if the lid was prone to leaking that would be an issue.

 

[Lennie]

If I promise to read this thread through, would anyone tell me how the vacuum pulled when the wort shrinks, might be overcome? I'd like to go in a cornie keg for fermentation, but am not sure it wouldn't become dented. The only thing I can think of, is to put a QD and hose on the gas post and put some kind of filter on that.

I could use a flexible plastic container and pour once its cooled, but it'd be simpler if I could go direct to the fermentor.

 

[H-ost]

From what I hear corny kegs have no problem with the vacuum. I use cubes and siphon from them to the fermenter the next day, the only issue being aerating the wort the next day.

Make sure you get HDPE if you go with cubes or winpacks.

If you do winpacks many people just pitch and ferment in those the next day.

 

[Seven]

If I promise to read this thread through, would anyone tell me how the vacuum pulled when the wort shrinks, might be overcome? I'd like to go in a cornie keg for fermentation, but am not sure it wouldn't become dented. The only thing I can think of, is to put a QD and hose on the gas post and put some kind of filter on that.

I did a no-chill test batch recently using a corny keg that was sealed up except for a blow off tube attached to the gas-in post on the keg. The wort was easily at 200-degrees F. when transferred to the corny keg. No denting from pressure / temperature decrease whatsoever.

 

[macfisherman]

After reading through the entire thread, I am intrigued by the above container and its potential for both a no-chill and fermentation vessel. Has anyone other than ipscman used the "3 inch opening 5 gallon carboy" to chill and/or ferment in? Does the fact that this particular container may not create an air-tight seal as do the winpaks mean that an infection is more likely to occur in the chilling wort? I am very interested in moving to no-chill brewing as a means to trim some time and equipment from my brew days, and this container seems ideal, but for the fact that it may not seal as tightly as do the "standard" winpaks.

Thanks!

I started with the 3 inch and then went to the win pack. I didn't like that there wasn't a tight seal in the 3 inch. My beer seems better with the winpack but I've only been doing this for about 2 years.

 

[WortMonger]

I did a no-chill batch in a Sanke keg (which seals much better from the start than a corny, due to the way they are designed) and had no denting or problems, other than the beer not being as good (but I am sure it was because of my yeast and fermentation temperature (experimental pressure fermentation done at room temperature). I even experimented with how to aerate. I used a sanitized coke bottle with the bottom cut off and attached that to the beer port on a Sanke tap connector (gas port closed off). I filled this with my yeast and simply pushed the lever to tap the keg. When I did, it sucked the yeast slurry in and only had a minimum of glugging from the rest of the equalized vacuum before I untapped. Then I hooked up my O2 directly to the beer port and retapped (this time with a spunding valve attached to the gas port). I charged the keg up to 10 psi with pure O2 and untapped. I rolled the keg around for a couple of minutes every 15 minutes or so for an hour, then I threw on my spunding setup and let her go. Had activity within a couple of hours, relieving any excess pressure over 10 psi. If I had only had this in a temperature controlled environment, I could honestly say with 100% certainty it was the temperatures fault that I didn't like this beer. I still drank all 15 gallons of it though .

 

[Lennie]

Thats what I want to do WortM, no-chill, oxygenate by addition of O2 and shaking, then a pressurized ferm. I see what you mean about cornies and vacuum, set up bass ackwards for that.

A blowoff wouldn't work because it would suck the liquid into the keg. Really I suppose if I put a cotton ball or two in the end of some tubing, it would prevent dust from being sucked in and should work for keeping the wort sanitary as the pressure equalizes during cooling. Or maybe a reverse airlock in a jar with the air bubbling through some vodka and into the jar before being sucked back into the keg.

Edited to add: read the entire thread as promised and see that people charge the corny keg with CO2 to counter the vacuum, hitting it with 21psi and then "topped up" later. Genius! I suppose the only drawback (aside from the whole hoppy beer thing) is that the yeast cake will have more trub in it and need more washing to recover some yeast for the next batch.

 

[Rivenin]

I would love to pitch into my winpacks but unfortunately they are too small. I may have a quarter gallon of head space! Lol need to find some 6 gallon or larger winpacks

 

[thughes]

For those of you leery about trying no-chill....

Ed Wort's Kolsch. Single vessel full volume no sparge eBIAB, no-chill, in the cube for 3 weeks before pitching yeast, nothing but a teaspoon of irish moss at 10 minutes left in boil:

 

[chucke]

I would love to pitch into my winpacks but unfortunately they are too small. I may have a quarter gallon of head space! Lol need to find some 6 gallon or larger winpacks

Here you go.
6 Gallon White Winpak® 18 3/4" H x 11 1/4" Dia | U.S. Plastic Corp.

 

[Yambor44]

For those of you leery about trying no-chill....

Ed Wort's Kolsch. Single vessel full volume no sparge eBIAB, no-chill, in the cube for 3 weeks before pitching yeast, nothing but a teaspoon of irish moss at 10 minutes left in boil:

That sure is purty-full!

 

[Rivenin]

Here you go.
6 Gallon White Winpak® 18 3/4" H x 11 1/4" Dia | U.S. Plastic Corp.

awesome, thanks!

also, how does everyone clean their winpacks out? i rinse them a few times with hot water, then fill with oxyclean and hot water solution and leave them till i'm ready to use again, then rise a few times with hot water....
does that seem right? or should i be doing anything different? it sure is time consuming and i'm not sure i'm saving any water vs chilling lol

 

[eulipion2]

also, how does everyone clean their winpacks out?

I rinse out everything that will come freely, then fill with water and OxyClean, let sit for a couple hours, then flip over to get any gunk off the top, also for a couple hours. Drain, rinse, and let dry.

 

[lylo]

Dump your oxy into a bucket and use again.The cubes usually aren't all that grotty.You can easily reuse the oxy a few times.I starsan rinse as well but probably not necesssary considering the temp of the wort.

 

[eulipion2]

Dump your oxy into a bucket and use again.The cubes usually aren't all that grotty.You can easily reuse the oxy a few times.I starsan rinse as well but probably not necesssary considering the temp of the wort.

The cubes can get "grotty" if you ferment in them, or sometimes if you cube hop.

 

[Rivenin]

houston... we have a problem...
so i've been having this problem with a "plastic" taste in my beers. so i bought water, swapped to new tubing, still no go, till i cleaned out my cube and noticed a smell, so i took a big whiff of it... guess what? smells like effing plastic, like chemicals and plastic, and i've been cleaning them out, letting them dry etc... but i do not want to ruin another batch of beer. so i'm dumping those for now this sucks!
so for tomorrow at least, im' going to put the lid on my kettle, throw a starsan soaked shirt on it, and let it cool that way. hopefully we will see if this helps anything!

 

[cowgo]

houston... we have a problem...
so i've been having this problem with a "plastic" taste in my beers. so i bought water, swapped to new tubing, still no go, till i cleaned out my cube and noticed a smell, so i took a big whiff of it... guess what? smells like effing plastic, like chemicals and plastic, and i've been cleaning them out, letting them dry etc... but i do not want to ruin another batch of beer. so i'm dumping those for now this sucks!
so for tomorrow at least, im' going to put the lid on my kettle, throw a starsan soaked shirt on it, and let it cool that way. hopefully we will see if this helps anything!

What kind of cube are you using? I haven't tried no chill yet, but I have a 6 gallon aquatainer and a 6 gallon winpak I was going to use. I definitiely don't want plastic beer.

 

[Rivenin]

the 5 gallon winpacks that everyone uses.
i'm going to run a test this week though between 4 different ways to chill and capden tablets though, so i'll know more of its to do with my water, chloramines, the winpacks and such.
Could have been multiple other things... i was mostly drunken posting haha, so i'll have more info later this week i hope! when time allows

 

[jeffmeh]

I have never had any plastic flavor with many batches cooling overnight in 6-gallon winpaks.

 

[bullinachinashop]

I know a lot of people use the winpacks with success, but I still don't like the idea of putting boiling wort into plastic.

I have opted for leaving the wort in the SS pot with the lid on and Starsan towels wrapped around the rim. The whole thing then covered with a plastic bag.

This is working great, but I never go more than 3 days before pitching.

I brewed a Kolsch 2 friday's ago, pitched on Sunday @ 61 degrees with a real wort starter, fermented @ 63 and raised to 65 by Wednesday. I tasted the gravity sample on Friday. The beer finished @ 1.010 and is already very tasty! 5 more gallons to the kegs!

 

[wyzazz]

What kind of cube are you using? I haven't tried no chill yet, but I have a 6 gallon aquatainer and a 6 gallon winpak I was going to use. I definitiely don't want plastic beer.

I've used Aquatainer's for quite a few No Chill batches without an issue.

 

[chucke]

I had my first No-Chill mishap this week. I opened a 6-gallon Winpak and found mold in the cap and on the throat of the Winpak.

Last month when I filled the Winpak I noticed a big nick on the threaded part, under the cap. I ensured that it was air-tight and thought that was good enough. Apparently there was a slow air leak at that spot.

Dumping 5 gallons of wort.....

 

[jeffmeh]

I know a lot of people use the winpacks with success, but I still don't like the idea of putting boiling wort into plastic.

I have opted for leaving the wort in the SS pot with the lid on and Starsan towels wrapped around the rim. The whole thing then covered with a plastic bag.

This is working great, but I never go more than 3 days before pitching.

I brewed a Kolsch 2 friday's ago, pitched on Sunday @ 61 degrees with a real wort starter, fermented @ 63 and raised to 65 by Wednesday. I tasted the gravity sample on Friday. The beer finished @ 1.010 and is already very tasty! 5 more gallons to the kegs!

I let the wort cool to 190F and then drain to the Winpak. No problems.

 

[manticle]

houston... we have a problem...
so i've been having this problem with a "plastic" taste in my beers. so i bought water, swapped to new tubing, still no go, till i cleaned out my cube and noticed a smell, so i took a big whiff of it... guess what? smells like effing plastic, like chemicals and plastic, and i've been cleaning them out, letting them dry etc... but i do not want to ruin another batch of beer. so i'm dumping those for now this sucks!
so for tomorrow at least, im' going to put the lid on my kettle, throw a starsan soaked shirt on it, and let it cool that way. hopefully we will see if this helps anything!

Boil up some water in your HLT.

Run it into your cube, let sit to chill, taste the water. If it has the plastic taste you are describing then it is probably the cube (provided your tubing is not also plastic when you do this - do you use silicon?).

You can either:

1. Discard the cube and get another.
2. Run hot water through in the same manner and repeat until the resulting water tastes like water.
3. Abandon no chill brewing.

I'd go 2, 1 and then 3. Stupid question from an Aussie - are the winpaks HDPE, recycle no.2?